Sunset Sarsaparilla's Wild Wild West World

[devinpatterson]

Also I think that aside from a handful of posse-bot bosses, they would simply be the NPCs of the park- merchants, etc.- and would be comparatively weak, but the few "special" i.e. named bots would be the posse in disguise "on the job"

IE the gunslinger is doing Wild Bill type show, the bandit is in the jail/a gunfight with the sheriff, etc and they're all friendly entertainers until the MF/Bill turns on the kill switch. All so the tigers are among the sheep, so to speak.

 

I still think we'd be better off going with the protectron brain bots rather than androids if were talking about Bills posse, but it's not written in stone or anything. I think I like it, because it easily delineates the posse from original park androids and because it lends a creepier look to the posse, that may be more fitting for (at least initially) villains. Plus with the brainbots we can add some more interesting technological abilities like you suggested when referencing general grevious. The downside is they can't be the "wolf in sheep clothing" as you suggested since they won't blend in with the other androids. So advantages and disadvantages to both directions.......

 

 

What I'm thinking is everyone in the historical districts would be only androids to reinforce the illusion. Say for example in the spanish missionary, all bots above ground (areas the public would be in) are androids. This includes everyone from the priest down to the lowliest gardner or maid (if there is one). Not a single normal protectron or mr handy exists in those areas to break the facade.

 

But in areas like main street with it's casino, arcade etc where there is a western theme but nobody could mistake it as being accurate to teh period, pretty much all the employees are bots dressed in western attire. Androids can be there as well. Maybe as historic personages doing a show, Annie Oakly android doing a little trick shooting, or a "staged" robbery or even just a cameo (fallout's version of John Wayne licensed likeness) greeting people.

 

So androids can be anywhere, but bots can't be in historic locations (unless they are in non-public/restricted areas).

 

If we go this direction the most pressing question is how to handle the Villa. It's slated as the first mini-world when the player enters the park proper, so it's at the top of the "to do" list. I'm thinking it should be like mainstreet (ie have bots) for a few reasons.

1. most of the park will be "historical" (the spanish mission, outlaw town, the indian encampment, wagon trails etc), so there isn't a whole lot of "modern" park areas. Probably just main street, and the villa. Possibly a water park/haunted mine and a northern resort town a little ways up in the mountain as well, but they're on the back burner at the moment.

2. in the villa people will want modern conveniences like TV's, radios etc and especially if there are vacation homes they will not want to be limited to old western accommodations.

3. We get to display our custom work right away, parade out mr gunslingers with hat and pistols, Protectrons in western attire etc. Sort of set the tone and show off the cool stuff we've been making.

Edited October 27, 2011 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

This is a good point. Though they are undoubtedly a lot tougher/stronger/nimbler than other bots, their main purpose is as a robotic shell for a human mind; they could be the park "employees" instead of just scenery/security.

 

As far as we know, only the institute back east can create androids the equal of real humans. I think androids are simply robots with a human appearance, whereas I belive what your describing is more accurately portrayed as a cyborg. And this may be my fault for not expressing my concept clearly, resulting in each of us having a different idea for the term. The androids as I imagined are just robots based on the protectron model with a human facade. Mean't to pass as human for the historical districts and historical personages, where a normal protectron would break immersion. They arn't indistinguishable by any means, no more so than Disney's animations could be mistaken for a human outside of their set/environment. But in their setting they do a passable job of imitating a human through programming, human like plastic skin, voice sythisizing etc. They'r no more or less cognitively conscious than any other protectron (although that's not saying a lot, since some fallout bots have seemed to gain self-consciousnesses).

 

The way I would simulate this in game is by including protectron sounds/footsteps, preventing gibbing, walk only, metalic bloodspray, protectron body part (still unsure on that one),radiation/poison immunity etc. Making them as close to a protectron as possible. I may even make some custom animations that resemble the protectron's idle animation where his torso twists badk and forth with hands out. Since I'll be moving them out of the npc directory (due to some hard coded behavior of the skeleton) into the MK II protectron directory they are already by default a custom race. That means we can add a exposed robotic arm, or circuitry showing through damaged plastic skin, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong what you have is a cool idea, similar to the surrogates movie, except you move the brain right into the bot instead of it being remote controlled. Maybe we should do another project with the institute (like we don't have enough going already), it would be fertile ground for mod ideas. And it's not like you are far off, we already have examples of protectron MK 6 in old world blues that is level 50 with 675 health, that's pretty bad ass.

 

But we have to keep in mind this is a amusement park, and the base template is what was available when the war started. Sure Bronco Bill had a secondary objective of fortifying the whole place as a survival/contigency plan. That means there is military hardware and hardened bunkers, but that's a typical mind set for north Americans living in the fallout world on the verge of a nuclear apocalypse. He just has the cash, resources, connections and lived in a highly libertarian society so he could make it all happen. But I'm already reaching/pushing the envelope with the MK II protectrons, heavy protectrons etc. I think we can throw in a exception or two (the android followers, Bills companion) and get away with it, but "lot tougher/stronger/nimbler than other bots" as given in the park would really be straining lore. There is a small parallel in BOS with acme robotics as very humanoid robots but not here in NV.

 

On the other hand, if we portray the androids as *slightly* more advanced protectron MKII with a prettier plastic face, I think we could get away with it (lore-wise).

 

While it's true the docs would have two centuries of time to do research (if we make the brain bot docs storyline) there just isn't much sense in the doc's doing work on androids as opposed to brain bots, attending the mainframe etc. They are under the MF's directions and I think it could care less about androids in general.

 

Anyway that's what I'm thinking, let me know if I'm making sense and that sounds resonable

[TrooperScooperMKII]

OK, I get it now; you watn the "androids" to be real androids i.e. robots through and through.

Yes, I meant cyborgs...

So to reiterate, the androids are basically MKII protectrons covered in a human-like shell, whereas the protectrons are the brainbots?

I guess I meant that the androids (disguised protectrons) and the cyborgs/posse (the brains in jars i.e. Grievous) would be the "same" in appearance, but vastly different internally, lorewise and gamewise. As with the Mainframe, the posse bots are organic beings passing themselves off as sophisticated robot-brains; both the organics and the actual robots are humanoid in appearance, and are distinguished only by ay of name/appearance/toughness.

 

Also why not have the parallel b/w the brain protectrons (they're separate, right?) and the pure robot MKIIs, so there's another parallel of sorts- in essence the shell-less (skinless?) variants of the human-bots.

SO-

Androids= humanoid-animatronic Protectron bots serving as npcs/staff in the park

cyborgs/posse= unique cyborg variants of the androids, more elaborate/specialized in appearance/role but otherwise identical aside from stat-boosts,

 

the MK-II? inorganic? bots- the main laborers,

and the cyborgs sans shells, i.e. the brain-carrying protectrons- given they're intelligence/capability and/or creepiness, they'd probably be more along the lines of"security" when the sh*t hits the fan instead of general laborers.

[kagstrom2100]

 

On the other hand the sewer pipe and grate could be good too with creature encounters. The grate could be locked from inside, where the vipers can't pick it, (and being filled with critters) it explains why it's not too heavily guarded. Maybe both?

 

This is the part i don't really understand.

 

I was just listing possible ways to get to the top of the interstate (where the vipers are);

1. being chains and or a makeshift elevator that the vipers drop down when they want down.

2. a tunnel and grate that is a rainwater drain. The player could use to get on top the overpass. It could have creatures in the tunnel, which would be interesting, but it's harder to lay out unless the overpass is askew and leaning right against some formation (cliff, hill etc)

 

Okay, Then i think that number 1 is better ;)

[devinpatterson]

OK, I get it now; you watn the "androids" to be real androids i.e. robots through and through.

 

I do, I think that would be a good way to go

 

So to reiterate, the androids are basically MKII protectrons covered in a human-like shell,

 

Exactly, just slapping a prettier face on them

 

whereas the protectrons are the brainbots?

 

Well we do have a few different brain bot models, from the robobrain, eybot brainot, protectron brainbot and protectron MK II brainbot. That being said they may or may not see use in the mod. Grey matter doesn't stay around long with the MF's appetite so we should use any brainbot sparingly. So my term brainbot is probably way to loose for this discussion. I should really have said "Protectron MKII brainbot", to have been more clear.

 

Protectrons are a great base robot, in some ways the best bot model bethesda has made, with unique animations, attention to detail etc. But they are really, really limited in their use of weaponry compared to a human. They have their built in laser on hand and dome and I can make one handed (single or duel wielded) weapons like a revolver or pistol grip shotgun but that's about it. They can't change weapons dynamically, they can't use two handed, nor thrown weapons, they can't even crouch to take cover.

 

If we use MKII's as a base we get to use lever action rifles, revolvers, thrown dynamite, knives (melee and thrown), tomahawks, etc....all kinds of western trappings. This allows them a much greater versatility. The large caliber lever action rifles can really pump out some serious damage (with ammo and cowboy perk expect it to match a anti-material rifle in base damage and fire **much** faster). The dynamite gives them indirect fire, which is great for flushing opponents out of cover. And all of that is just for the western themed MKII's.

 

Below ground, in teh reactor, the MF vault or in any other restricted/"employee only" area, where the MKII's don't have to have western trappings they have even more versatility. They can use gatling lasers, fatboys, tesla cannons, rocket launchers etc., anything a human can use.

 

A brainbot is a rare creature, it is something the MF has decided can do a lot more good with it's grey matter than if the MF adsorbed it. That implies it's useful "on the ground" instead of in the MF's neural/cerebral tank. Perhaps powerful combat skills or other training that makes it invaluable.

 

So I think any humanoid type brainbot that may be in combat should use the MKII as a base. If it's a non combatant like the scientists and doctors from vaul-tec and general atomic, that are just eggheads and wouldn't touch a weapon anyway than we could throw their brains in either model. But it might still be best to use the MKII if they have any unique animations, like sitting in a chair or typing on a terminal, because the MKII will use the human skeleton for it's poses.

 

I guess I meant that the androids (disguised protectrons) and the cyborgs/posse (the brains in jars i.e. Grievous) would be the "same" in appearance, but vastly different internally, lorewise and gamewise. As with the Mainframe, the posse bots are organic beings passing themselves off as sophisticated robot-brains; both the organics and the actual robots are humanoid in appearance, and are distinguished only by ay of name/appearance/toughness.

 

Sure and that would have the advantage of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" that you had mentioned before, which is cool.

 

But consider if we made the posse the only protectron MKII brainbots (with possible rare exceptions like the doc's) in the park. It would give them a unique look that would stand out from anything else in the park and give them a dark visage that would really fit their tortured existence. And that would be good too, because it fits with Bronco (and his posse) living in a tin can, (unable to feel the caress of his android companion, the rush of wind on his face on horseback or the smell of black powder etc.). Everything he loves denied him. Another aspect, is it means they aren't walking about the park regularly, as maintenance or other park duties. Perhaps maybe even in hibernation until the MF wakes up and decides a threat needs to be taken care of.

 

In fact it may be possible to up the creepiness factor. Maybe split the mesh, add a alpha transparncy and drop some organs inside the mesh. That would result in a general grivious type of chest with a heart (or additonal guts) in a torso shaped jar. We could even put a shader effect on it to give it green lighting (or other special effect)

 

Also why not have the parallel b/w the brain protectrons (they're separate, right?) and the pure robot MKIIs, so there's another parallel of sorts- in essence the shell-less (skinless?) variants of the human-bots.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not quite following

 

SO-

Androids= humanoid-animatronic Protectron bots serving as npcs/staff in the park

 

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, using the same technology as a MKII, but with a thinner frame so they fit in a plastic human appearing shell. Primarily in historical districts.

 

cyborgs/posse= unique cyborg variants of the androids, more elaborate/specialized in appearance/role but otherwise identical aside from stat-boosts,

 

I wouldn't go with the android as the base, I'd go with a protectron MKII brainbot as their bodies. The MKII brainbot model will show there is a human brain in the noggin. It will differentiate them from the androids and allows us to make a very macabre model. It means they'r one of the very few that get to keep their brains (relatively) intact because they have something unique to offer. In addition Bill and his posse get shafted, living in a tin can, which will tie in with our story line pretty good.

 

the MK-II? inorganic? bots- the main laborers,

 

I wouldn't use these guys as simple laborers, it wouldn't take advantage of their versatility (animations/poses etc). In fact one way you could think of them as is "de-skinned" androids, since both types of bots share the same animations and the same functions. But the MK-II's would be in non-historical sections. No point in paying the extra cash for a specialized frame and plastic skin etc if they don't need to be historically accurate. Just slap a cowboy hat and other western trappings on and let them do their job.

 

EDIT: also if we don't need the human animations (the bot just talks or is a pushover with just built in lasers) you can substitute a normal protectron. They'r cheaper than the MKII's so they'd be used as a check in clerk at the hotel, greeters, vendors etc.

 

and the cyborgs sans shells, i.e. the brain-carrying protectrons- given they're intelligence/capability and/or creepiness, they'd probably be more along the lines of"security" when the sh*t hits the fan instead of general laborers.

 

Yeah definitely not laborers. Since they have to be pretty important to have kept their grey matter (the mainframe is pretty voracious in that regard), they have to have skills and abilities that a inorganic bot doesn't. In addition it would be best to use the MKII as a base so they have all the human animations open to them. That's why I think the posse best fits this category.

 

But that's my line of thinking more or less, let me know if I fubared it somewhere along the way.

Edited October 28, 2011 by devinpatterson

[TrooperScooperMKII]

So you don't want Bill/the Posse topside until the SHtF? OR would some/all of them be incognito earlier on? If the posse-bots are going to be "entertainers" then a creepy factor is rather odd..

OTOH, the entertainer(s) could be the rare case, with most being belowground...

[devinpatterson]

So you don't want Bill/the Posse topside until the SHtF? OR would some/all of them be incognito earlier on?

 

That would depend on their appearance. But I'd say they are like a spec ops force, so they don't spend their time policing the park, that's for the androids and protectrons (as well as sentry bots, securitrons etc). So you call in the big guns when the normal idiots can't get the job done.

 

If the posse-bots are going to be "entertainers" then a creepy factor is rather odd..

 

I wouldn't really go that way partially because of the timeline. Bronco Bill and his posse wouldn't have been "altered" until shortly after the war, whereas the entertainer androids would have already been made (and of course it's unlikely any other shipments would come after the nukes). So there probably wasn't spare android bodies. And I'd have to stress that's "probably", because we could always construct a scenario where some spares were being kept in storage or something. But I don't think the MF would cater to Bills preference of a android bod vs a MKII. And once again we could probably construct a scenario where it's possible (maybe Bill has some leverage even if it's small, over hte MF), but I'm thinking it's just not as probable.

 

I believe what it boils down to is how we want them to look. We'll be making the stats the same regardless (maybe a tad tougher in a protectron since there is more physical hardware to work with, but even that is debatable).

 

But I think this (protectron MKII brainbots) is good because it sets them apart as a unique (sans the docs depending on whether they get a protectron MKII brainbot, old world blues thinktank or an old fashioned robobrain) model and gives them a real visual impact. In addition I think we both want Bill to be in a difficult existence, living life as a tin man. Plus it's possible it could be part of a quest line involving retrieving suitable bodies for Bill & his men (should an alliance form and promises be made). That quest line could be really easy like using a current android in the park. Or it could be of medium difficulty, like escaping the park and hunting down a shipment of new androids or unwilling human "volunteers". Or possibly for a real challenge having to recover actual real androids from "the institute" (although there would be moral issues with that one too, since the androids are genuinely sentient). Anyway adds a little "spin" to negotiations.

 

I also tend to think it's more difficult to put a brain in an android, than a protectron, but that's just an opinion and has no real bearing on anything. In a world where you can have your brains scooped out and replaced with tesla coils, a little less room in an android frame isn't really going to make any difference.

 

OTOH, the entertainer(s) could be the rare case, with most being belowground...

 

Didn't quite catch your drift on that one

 

I thought that if the player shuts down the mainframe at the end (ie not choosing to blow the park up via the reactor or allow the chosen one to merge with the MF) we could have it start singing the "daisy, daisy" song hal played when he was unplugged in 2001 a space Odyssey.

 

Started working on COP-30 this morning, eveything is coming along pretty good, except hte gun is giving me grief. Hopefully I'll have it worked out soon. I'm going to check with people in the mod forum and see how to trigger a shader effect on COP-30's red dome, so that when he is in combat it flashes and sounds like a police siren. That should be unique.

 

EDIT: Oh also I need law enforcement oriented (as well as Dirty Harry type) lines for COP-30. The "do you feel lucky punk" is a given, but also stuff based on real legal codes would be cool. ie when attacked COP-30 could say "aggravated assault on a officer is punishable by a mandatory 10 year prison term" etc. Dialog like that. Possibly a C3PO line too as an easter egg, since their call signs are very similar.

 

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4803/cop30pic3.jpg

Edited October 29, 2011 by devinpatterson

[TrooperScooperMKII]

Question:

what's the problem with using a master file? You can load multiple esms- just change the geckcustom.ini line "bAllowMultipleMasterLoads" to 1.

[devinpatterson]

Question:

what's the problem with using a master file? You can load multiple esms- just change the geckcustom.ini line "bAllowMultipleMasterLoads" to 1.

 

Because a lot of our resources are from DLC esm's. If for instance we only used assets from FalloutNV.esm we could make the mod a master file (ESM). But since we are using everything from dead money to lonesome road we have to use a plugin (ESP). At least that is my understanding.

 

If it weren't for fnvplugin we wouldn't even be able to merge esp plugin's, it's a cool little program.

 

EDIT: I should mention that's my understanding, I could be wrong

Edited October 29, 2011 by devinpatterson

[MojaveMike]

So, are you guys going to add a unique Power Armor/Ranger Armor to this mod?