Couple of Mod Problems

[Campaigner]

I've begun learning about how to use Nifskope quite a bit recently, and I feel like I'm getting a good hang of making horrible abominations using just vanilla items, nothing new. As I goof around with it, I can't help but feel overjoyed that I'm finally learning how to do this stuff right. Now, I have some small issues pertaining to my latest experimenting, and I would hope that I can get some help from you guys in making this work. Gonna arrange this into a list for ease of reading.

 

1. I made a new weapon from nothing but junk items through Nifskope: Tin cans, microfusion cells, doctor tools, etc. It's literally nothing but random items thrown together as a weapon, and it has the Tesla Cannon's electric glow on it. However, GECK seems to want to be a putz and crash every time I bring the mesh into it, and googling my chimeric abomination's plight does little to no good at all. Why does it crash when I simply bring in the mesh? It's using the Machete Gladius as a base, so it should be posed and held the same, right?

 

2a. I finally figured out how to change the goo pile from green to red, but I can't figure out how to make it appear ingame. I can't even find what uses the goo pile, as there's no NPC or container I can simply change the model of.

EDIT: I got everything red except the goo pile. Looking in the scripts, there's "AttachAshPile 2", and when I googled that, it said that was the syntax for the goo pile. How do I add a new syntax to link to my red goo pile?

 

3. I figured out what causes incredible knockdown effects using unmodified files in the game; the Victoryrifleknockdowneffect choice under crit effect. However, I want to have this effect apply to corpses and things that die from the attack. As it stands, they simply fall over normally if they die from weapons with this effect. How do I change that?

 

4. In Nifskope, when I try to edit armor, it will highlight a huge portion, if not all, of the armor at once when I simply want the shoulder pad, sleeves, etc. Is that just a poor mesh choice on Bethesda's fault? Or am I doing it wrong?

 

 

After I "master" these things that are holding me back, I'll be working with Blender again, hoping to make my own stuff. I just want to work out the kinks with what I do know how to do before moving on to a new project.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Campaigner

[huntsman2310]

I had that same problem with number 4, all I did was make a copy of the mesh, imported it into blender and cut away the pieces i didn't need, i've got no clue about the others ones though, and i would like to ask a question of my own, hiw do i get the edited meshs to actually show the changes after exporting back into nifskope.

[Campaigner]

Ah, so I need to use blender to chip away at what I don't want for the armors? Bummer. Guess I'll add that to my list of "to do" when I pick up blender workin.

[Moraelin]

I've begun learning about how to use Nifskope quite a bit recently, and I feel like I'm getting a good hang of making horrible abominations using just vanilla items, nothing new. As I goof around with it, I can't help but feel overjoyed that I'm finally learning how to do this stuff right. Now, I have some small issues pertaining to my latest experimenting, and I would hope that I can get some help from you guys in making this work. Gonna arrange this into a list for ease of reading.

 

1. I made a new weapon from nothing but junk items through Nifskope: Tin cans, microfusion cells, doctor tools, etc. It's literally nothing but random items thrown together as a weapon, and it has the Tesla Cannon's electric glow on it. However, GECK seems to want to be a putz and crash every time I bring the mesh into it, and googling my chimeric abomination's plight does little to no good at all. Why does it crash when I simply bring in the mesh?

 

Usually this means you created a corrupt .nif, which NifSkope cheerfully allows you to.

 

Probably THE most common problem is when one node points at a non-existent string as its "name" or "value". It's very easy to end up with exactly that and not even know it, when you copy and paste parts around. Look at the NUMBER there, then show the nodes in list, click the header, and look at how many strings it has in its list. If it says 12 strings, they'll be numbered 0 to 11. If one of your nodes references string 13, NifSkope will be ok with it, but the game engine and GECK WILL crash.

 

A second common problem is basically to just screw up the tree structure. E.g., by deleting the root node of a branch, instead of deleting the branch. Compare to a pristine item and see, basically, if your tree has the same structure. If you start seeing strip data or shader nodes without a NiTriStrips parent, for example, you've done it wrong and it WILL crash the game.

 

It's using the Machete Gladius as a base, so it should be posed and held the same, right?

 

Assuming that it's also the same kind of item and with the same animation in the GECK. But generally, for one-handed items, the (X,Y,Z) = (0, 0, 0) point will be in the middle of your fist, X is forwards as you'd punch (i.e., edge of a sword or axe is towards +X), Y is along the axis of a straight sword you'd be holding. You don't need to start from any particular weapon, as long as you just align the handle and orientation based on that.

 

3. I figured out what causes incredible knockdown effects using unmodified files in the game; the Victoryrifleknockdowneffect choice under crit effect. However, I want to have this effect apply to corpses and things that die from the attack. As it stands, they simply fall over normally if they die from weapons with this effect. How do I change that?

 

Never used that one, but check the checkbox next to that dropdown. It makes it apply the crit effect only when the critter is KILLED by a crit. That's how, for example, my lightsabers turn people to ash only upon killing them.

 

4. In Nifskope, when I try to edit armor, it will highlight a huge portion, if not all, of the armor at once when I simply want the shoulder pad, sleeves, etc. Is that just a poor mesh choice on Bethesda's fault? Or am I doing it wrong?

 

As you've already been told NifSkope isn't really a mesh editor. It allows you to pack your meshes in a neat .nif file and edit the file structure, but it's not a 3d editor.

 

Unfortunately, really there is no easy way there. Most people -- originally yours truly too -- imagine that they can just select a shoulder pad and delete it, or select just the duster and copy it. In reality most meshes aren't made like that. That shoulder pad is really a bump in the mesh of the armour. Even if one deleted it, there is no mesh for the armour under it, for example, so you'd be left with just a hole.

 

If I'm allowed to give an honest advice, though... why don't you start with retextures? Since you say you're studying arts, you're probably good at that, and it's nowhere near as frustrating as diving head first directly into 3d editing. And you can see some useful results right away. Plus, don't underestimate the "market" for retextures. Some of the most downloaded item mods around are really nice retextures. You can, of course, still learn the 3d stuff too, but maybe not dive head-first into it.

 

Edit: and if you do plough into 3d editing, may I suggest doing weapons and other such items first? Armour also needs to be rigged to the bones of the Bethesda models, while weapons aren't rigged to anything. If you can make, say, a spiked ball on a stick, that's that, it will be held and swung without needing to pay attention to anything more than the size.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Moraelin

[Campaigner]

Thank you for the highly detailed reply. On question 1, that makes it incredibly easy to understand. All I do is make sure that the handle is at (0, 0, 0), and have it face perpendicular to the x axis? Or the Z?

 

On number 3, I figured that part out from goofing around earlier. Problem is, I want it to happen at death AND while they are alive, not either or. Chances are it has to be either or, but I'm holding onto that faint hope that it'd work the way I want it to, y'know?

 

On 4, I basically gotta go into blender/3dmax/whatever and make my own mesh if I really want a custom armor?

 

As for the last part, I have been doing retextures. Got 30 of em so far, plenty more in the works. I understand porting the new textures into the game through nifskope and geck, and have all of them properly worked out, except for the issues in #2 and that annoying bug with Power Armor helmets (sideways tilts), but otherwise I have a good understanding of retexturing. Only reason I want to jump into 3d modeling is simply for the fact that there's not enough people willing to do some of the more entertaining model requests, and if I can help out, I would gladly do so. Starting with weapons is a definite, though, because I have a gun that I designed that I really want in the game, but I'm not gonna ask anyone to make it cause I already know the request would drop to page 2 without a single view lol. Armor is more interesting, however, since there's such a lack of good stuff (in my opinion) for the Type3 body, and male armor is either incredibly bland or plain out disgusting. I wanna bring the awesome stuff my artist's mind can make, as well as all the other stuff I see in media that I think "Hey, that'd look wicked in Fallout."

[Moraelin]

Thank you for the highly detailed reply. On question 1, that makes it incredibly easy to understand. All I do is make sure that the handle is at (0, 0, 0), and have it face perpendicular to the x axis? Or the Z?

 

Well, probably the easiest to explain is: extend an arm in the familiar thumbs-up gesture. You know, made a fist, thumb pointing up. That thumb is pointing along Y. Now extend the index finger forward. That's X. Z is the one perpendicular to both.

 

Exactly how the weapon is alingned, well, depends on what weapon you have in mind. For a handgun, the barrel would be along X, for a sword it would be along Y, typically.

 

In virtually all cases the handle would be along Y.

 

Pretty much that's all you need to know to make a melee weapon that's held and used right.

 

Well, that and 1 unit is 0.6 inches, if you want to make a replica of something and nail the exact dimensions. (But I've screwed up sizes before by assuming it's 0.5 and hardly anybody ever noticed. We're so used to oversized weapons in games that one being only 20% bigger doesn't even seem big.) If not, well, just go by what looks good to you.

 

On number 3, I figured that part out from goofing around earlier. Problem is, I want it to happen at death AND while they are alive, not either or. Chances are it has to be either or, but I'm holding onto that faint hope that it'd work the way I want it to, y'know?

 

Hmm, no idea. I would assume that leaving the checkbox unchecked would do that, but I never actually tried.

 

On 4, I basically gotta go into blender/3dmax/whatever and make my own mesh if I really want a custom armor?

 

Or edit an existing one. But one way or another, yeah, you'll need a 3d editor.

 

As for the last part, I have been doing retextures. Got 30 of em so far, plenty more in the works. I understand porting the new textures into the game through nifskope and geck, and have all of them properly worked out, except for the issues in #2 and that annoying bug with Power Armor helmets (sideways tilts), but otherwise I have a good understanding of retexturing. Only reason I want to jump into 3d modeling is simply for the fact that there's not enough people willing to do some of the more entertaining model requests, and if I can help out, I would gladly do so. Starting with weapons is a definite, though, because I have a gun that I designed that I really want in the game, but I'm not gonna ask anyone to make it cause I already know the request would drop to page 2 without a single view lol. Armor is more interesting, however, since there's such a lack of good stuff (in my opinion) for the Type3 body, and male armor is either incredibly bland or plain out disgusting. I wanna bring the awesome stuff my artist's mind can make, as well as all the other stuff I see in media that I think "Hey, that'd look wicked in Fallout."

 

Well, that is kinda what I was talking about. Making new models is hard, and really only a handful of people around actually do that. (A few more port models done by people they know for other games.) Armour, doubly so. I wouldn't touch that with a polearm myself. That's why you don't see so many answers, ultimately.

 

But the flip side is that if you can learn to do that, that would definitely be helpful. So, yeah, go for it.

 

That said, I might have a simple remedy for the sideways hats and helmets. Unfortunately when you clone a hat or helmet, the GECK doesn't copy the value of the variable that makes it sit right. My way of dealing it is to edit the .esp with FOMM, and either:

 

A) clone the hat by copying the record with FOMM and giving it a new form id and editor id. E.g., copy a hat from the .esm or from an .esp with a working hat to your mod. You can then edit it in the GECK afterwards, it will keep staying up right. OR

 

B) if you've already made a hat or helmet and it sits wrong, copy IIRC the BNAM record from a working hat or helmet to yours.

 

I think there's a way to do it in the GECK too, but, well, I'm sticking to what I already learned and works :P