Private Material for Oblivion

[FelixG0D]

Ok so I get all worked up when I see something awesome, which is generally the case with privately released material. These mods tend to be EXTREMELY superior in quality to most of the public mods. Here is what I want debated... because it's causing an itch something fierce. Should people who make private material have free reign to flaunt it via the screenshots section of tesnexus? See the thing is... with keeping in respect for those who do this, it's great that you spent time and effort into making something awesome and special. I'm not in a tizzy about that. I'm angry because they then take it a step further, and parade it about in public like "HAHA I HAVE THIS YOU DON'T DERP." If you're going to make something... something ridiculously awesome that you KNOW people are gonna ask for... don't post it around and then laugh at everyone who can't get said material because you are too "emotionally attached" to your work.

 

For instance, here is some quoting I found with names withheld for certain reasons.

 

Person 1: It's an alternate Moonshadow elf texture, the creator's a bit reluctant on releasing it publicly even though it has the PERFECT amount of eye shadow IMO...

 

Person 2: I agree...and it's a pity the people who are making superior content for Oblivion think they are more superior if they are the only ones who have it. Some kind of egolomania(yes...I just made that word up) :down:

 

Person 3: If you put work into something for your own personal use, and were very proud of it, you might be content in the fact that you are unique. Wanting to feel a tiny spark of being special is not "egolomania", nor does it mean you think you are superior.

 

Person 3 here is the attitude I don't understand and wish to see people like this person debating said topic.

 

 

This was written at 6:07am with not having had any sleep yet so... forgive me if it sounds stupid.

 

Thank you.

[Maigrets]

This can be a semi complex issue as far as I see it.

 

It's only natural I suppose that if you're the person who created something special or unique (to yourself) you're are going to want to show it off. Otherwise what's the point of knowing you're the only one who has this wonderful mod and the only one to ever see it in game. There's a certain amount of narcissism in all kinds of artists, whether that means writers, painters, sculptors or people who create mods for a game.

 

If the creator of a private mod decides to show it in screen shots, but makes it known the mod will never be released, they also need to realize they have also created a demand for it and some mod users will stop at nothing to get their hands on it.

 

You only have to read the Oblivion Mod Detectives thread to see how it drives people to measures that border on questionable at the least, including childish bickering, especially the last few months. However, it's made worse by a small part of the TES community who seem to do it to create this kind of demand, intentionally or not....and of course denial of access. And, yes, I do believe it's out of spite at times as well.

 

I strongly disagree with the "I have it and you don't" attitude. If you don't want to share something special or sentimental to you, then also don't create the demand and then shoot people down when they ask about it. Be polite about it and say, yes, it's special to me and can't be released. Then say no more and ignore the beggers who persist with demands, or remove the screen shots to avoid the inevitable reaction. :woot:

 

Then again, people who are supposedly adults should also learn that you can't have everything in life and get over it. If a modder shows something they consider special to them for whatever reason, and politely makes it known it can't be shared, I don't have a problem with it, even if I would very much like to have the mod in question. It's when the jealousy and spite comes into it that I find it distasteful and a more than a little ridiculous, especially the begging. It is only a game, not a matter of life and death. :whistling:

 

Besides, many of these ultra desired mods are ripped from other games or from Poser or Daz commercial models, and can't be linked to or uploaded here. As for the game rips they are usually of terrible quality and are a letdown anyway. They may look great in photo shopped screen shots, but the reality is something different. This can include faded very low res textures, (sometimes including flickering), and clipping meshes, and they often just look awful in game. :down:

[BlackBaron2]

Well, part of the reason there are private mods is because the modder doesn't have permission to release an edited version of the original--or, the permission conditions are for a limited release. Then, of course, somebody may have been driven off by trolls and be uncomfortable sharing their things with the community at large.

 

In terms of textures, races or saves, a lot of people do not share their characters. Nothing wrong with it, and I agree that you should not do so unless you are OK with them being used in images you may find distasteful. I call it the hentai test. I'm uncomfortable with seeing my characters in compromising pictures, so I don't share them. If asked, I will give this answer: one, I don't want my character shown in sex shots (other than ones I myself might upload) and two, the textures or parts thereof may be a gift from other people and those people would be upset if I shared the textures.

 

I have seen, on some sites, people acting like total fools over somebody's savegames. It's the modder's choice as to whether they release stuff or not, and people do need to respect that. On the other hand, it is extremely childish to take on the "I have it and you don't" attitude--which is why I'm more than happy to teach people how to make shiny tattoos, for example, like my High Elf character Sabre has.

[FelixG0D]

On the topic of some mods being non-releasable because of no permission to do so, I don't get this either. I think it's not right to be selfish and tell people they are not allowed to modify content you have created, it's like slapping the devs for Bethesda in the face. THEY gave us the toolset and the knowhow to modify their things, and when people refuse to give permission to modify things is like saying Bethesda telling us no toolset for you. Show some respect to the people who have given you the ability to create such content. So you spent months making a mod for this game, great. That's your choice and to tell people "I don't want you messing with this or that, or my character is mine only blah blah" just seems cruel. I'm having real issues grasping the logic and line of thought here, but maybe it's because I still haven't slept yet. My bottom line issue here is that people get so butthurt over "copyright" issues and junk. NO ONE here has any "REAL" copyright to anything they make. Yeah you made it, but just because you have an idea doesn't mean it's yours. So when people steal your content and release it (modified or not) you just gotta get over it and move on. It's gonna happen to the best of us, the ones with real modding skill. That's no reason to just quit and tuck tail to run away. I think THAT is childish and people need to show a little more backbone. Once I do get better at making meshes and start releasing things... EVERYTHING of mine is going to be open source and free for anyone to modify and change. It's just my way of giving to the community because that's what this site is for... since we make no money or anything making these mods just for personal pleasure. It's like taking the hungry kid's bread... when you've already eaten your loaf. Share with the community, and don't be selfish.

[BlackBaron2]

You're comparing wanting to protect your artwork to stealing food from starving children. Seriously? Rhetoric like that isn't going to endear anyone to your ideas.

 

It's not "cruel" to say you don't want, say, a race you made for Oblivion to be used for sex mods. I don't know why, but it seems that calling people "cruel" for not letting you ride roughshod over their hard work seems a bit over the top. ;) Would you call anyone who said no to you "cruel" or "evil"?

[FelixG0D]

I think you're taking what I said a bit too literally. It was the concept and the principle behind the stealing food thing. Like not sharing your work with others and letting them do what they will with it to me is just selfish. I'm not downplaying the amount of work or the time spent into it, that's great and good for you and all. And who cares if someone uses your race you made for sex mods, or character release even? People get all uptight about characters and looking unique, modding on this site isn't for personal gain or glory.... it's for sharing. Something we all learned in kindergarten. I quote this, from the homepage of tesnexus even.

 

Q: Do you have any advice for aspiring mod authors?

A: Do what you like to do. The inspiration comes with the work. Modding is done for pleasure, not for fame and glory. In a friendly community like TESNexus, everyone is just trying to share with others their ways to enrich the amazing world of The Elder Scrolls series.

 

See what I'm getting at here? He even uses the word "friendly" describing the community here. More often then not, I've found trolls and people who are just a general nuisance. It's for SHARING and not for flaunting the special things you make for yourself. If I make something private, I'm perfectly ok with NOT showing it off. If it's just for you, then no one else needs to see it or even know it exists. Posting pictures of it and then telling people "oh it's my PERSONAL character that I feel SOOO attached to. I can't let you have it because of seeing it disgust me when people use it in sex mods!" It's a character, in a video game. Get over it I mean seriously... that's just lame. I'm raging hardcore here trying to understand this logic, and failing miserably.

[myrmaad]

Just because you don't like the idea of copyright, doesn't make it less applicable. It's the law.

 

The main reason many items can't be shared is that they were used (ripped from other games) without permission.

 

And if they post them here, they can get banned because regardless of what you do, we have to follow the law.

[Vagrant0]

The bottom line is this: If you spent the time making something, you get to decide if and how you want to share that thing with others. It's true in both real life and just about anywhere else virtual. Deal with it.

[Maigrets]

@ FelixGOD

 

I've had a few people ask for some of my save games and I have in the past uploaded some of them. However, they are ones I could care less about and often created for the purpose of sharing them. It's basically how I started out modding.

 

The characters I do care about will never leave my hard drive precisely for the reasons outlined by BlackBaron2.

 

It's one thing to see tasteful sexual screen shots which I would prefer not to using my races and characters, but it's quite another to see and hear about hard core Hentai pictures with monsters which make me want to vomit. That particularly applies to the sex mods that aren't, for very good reasons, allowed on this site. I discovered that when I released Gothic Breton and found it to be a popular race used for the Hentai scene. I regret very much having released it and in hindsight I wouldn't have done so.

 

Becoming attached to a character is called role playing and they become more than pixels on a screen to some people. I never used to understand the extent of caring about a game character that much either, until fairly recently. Now I have half a dozen that are personal to me. I've created back stories and histories for most of them so they end up seeming more realistic.

 

Have you never read a novel and felt some compassion or identified with a particular character? This is similar. It's also been studied by psychologists and found that identifying with a game character can actually be beneficial and good for mental health.

 

Sadly, not everyone, me included, has friends or family support in this day and age and games can be a source of relaxation as well as a virtual family. It doesn't make them delusional or weird, just lonely for whatever reason, and playing a different role away from real life can be life saving in some cases.

 

NO ONE here has any "REAL" copyright to anything they make. Yeah you made it, but just because you have an idea doesn't mean it's yours. So when people steal your content and release it (modified or not) you just gotta get over it and move on. It's gonna happen to the best of us, the ones with real modding skill. That's no reason to just quit and tuck tail to run away. I think THAT is childish and people need to show a little more backbone.

 

Anyone who makes original material has the right to do what they like with it. Rules on forums and other unspoken, but well known rules among modders and the community are there to prevent exactly this "stealing" and re-posting of other people's work.

Most modders have some pride and care about what they've created. This is why it can be hurtful and infuriating to see it taken for granted.

 

If re-uploading, altering and other questionable things were allowed here uncontrolled, the number of new mods produced and maintained would drop alarmingly.

 

Once I do get better at making meshes and start releasing things... EVERYTHING of mine is going to be open source and free for anyone to modify and change. It's just my way of giving to the community because that's what this site is for... since we make no money or anything making these mods just for personal pleasure. It's like taking the hungry kid's bread... when you've already eaten your loaf. Share with the community, and don't be selfish.

 

I really hope it works out like that for you because I agree, sharing is good and giving back to the community is also good, but things don't always work out as we'd like.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Maigrets

[bben46]

@ FelixGOD

I'm seeing a little confusion between your 2 points of view. On one side you want people to post good mods with no expectation of any protection or appreciation for their hard work. And on the other you are asking why people don't release these good mods you see pictures of. :rolleyes:

 

There is no obligation for any modder to release any of their mods for you to use. By trying to give a little protection we encourage those people who have made good mods (as well as those that aren't so great) to allow us to use them.

 

I know what the internet is like, and I would never bother to release a mod that I didnt expect to be folded spindled and mutilated, even under full copyright protection. But I would also hope to see someone take my mediocre mod and make something better out of it with my blessings. There are probably 10 modders like me, who never really finish a mod and for that reason never upload it for every one that does upload. However the reason I don't release is not because I don't want anyone else 'messing' with 'my' mod. When (if ) I ever release another mod, it will come with the disclaimer that you cannot steal it - because it is a gift to do with as you please.