Some Thoughts on Fair Play and Good Humored Disagreement

[Aurielius]

@Crimsonedge

I agree that the forum has a lean to the left but more than once after reading a header and deciding to post I have been forced to evaluate my own perspective on the issue and whether it was really defensible in open forum. In some cases the posts of the Liberals have been so cogent that I withdrew from the idea of contesting them at all. Though I have strong opinions, sometimes my views have been modified by the posts of some of the more intelligent posts form my esteemed colleagues on the other side. It may be that one has strong views on most if not all subjects but it is ridiculous to assume that anyone has a 100% lock on the truth, I certainly do not. I think that when one of my liberal opponents cites his/her case well, I am intrigued enough to check the facts and if right then I hope that I have shown the good grace to admit I was partially or completely wrong ; and in some cases have seen the same openness of mind from them as well on occasion. Dialog is always better than reflexive nay saying, the debate forum allows that to exist even if it is imperfect at times but what open discussion is not somewhat imperfect?

Edited March 18, 2011 by Aurielius

[grannywils]

Thanks for the above post, Aurielius. You pretty much said what I was attempting to say in my OP. That is that there are some of us on all sides of any issue who are capable of listening to one another respectfully. And, yes, sometimes we might even have a tiny change of heart on something. Albeit not too often; but just often enough for us to stay interested.

 

To just say, "I've already made up my mind, and I'm never going to change it" is somewhat shortsighted in my opinion. It also is a bit scary. A world where everyone already knows what is right and what is wrong and is unwilling to discuss anything with anyone in any forum would be a nightmare, wouldn't it...

 

 

[marharth]

I would have to say that most people in the debate section are left wing.

 

I am pretty far to the left but I do have some pretty right wing views (I strongly disagree with gun control past the point it is already at)

 

For the most part everyone agrees to disagree here.

[Vagrant0]

I would have to say that most people in the debate section are left wing.

I would point out that this whole "left wing, right wing" stuff is rather subjective to where a person happens to be sitting. The defining line between the two has in this age become so blurred and distorted that to even suggest that there is a wing at all is to suggest a misunderstanding of the situation. About the only thing that defines one over the other is the amount and type of scare tactics used and just which grandstanding television personality they watch.

 

I am called "left wing" why? Probably because I actually think about things logically and work off the basis of my own knowledge instead of letting someone tell me what they think is right. What matters is not how conservative or liberal my, or anyone's, views are, but rather if they are the best logical choice for the betterment of this world. The best choice may not be one I personally may agree with, but that does not mean I cannot accept it as a step in the right direction.

 

The quagmire that most countries have fallen into is because they stopped making smart, calculated, logical choices, but instead have thrown themselves to the whims of voiced public opinion and become mired in endless, pointless, dirty discourse. The same problems that these forums have are the same problems that most of the world has, regardless of the benefit of a decision a vocal minority will always be there to derail it and people will always decide to play along to watch it crash and burn. What it really boils down to is direction and focus. Right now people seem to lack both.

[Aurielius]

I am called "left wing" why? Probably because I actually think about things logically and work off the basis of my own knowledge instead of letting someone tell me what they think is right. What matters is not how conservative or liberal my, or anyone's, views are, but rather if they are the best logical choice for the betterment of this world. The best choice may not be one I personally may agree with, but that does not mean I cannot accept it as a step in the right direction.

 

 

Funny I would have said that I am a conservative for exactly that same preconditions of being able to think for myself, decide what I believe to be true without having it spoon feed to me. The divergence of what one considers the correct solution is really the sticking point, both sides have the best intentions but diametrical opposites cannot both be right at the same time. Fortunately the pendulum of political thinking in governance swings back and forth giving both ideologies a chance at bat. It's the middle that controls the country not the extremes on both sides and they decide when they have had enough of one version or another, which in the long long is trend to moderation....sort of the way the founding fathers had in mind in the first place,

[ginnyfizz]

Quite so, Aurelius, I am at something of a loss as to why the ability to think critically and logically and make up one's own mind should be considered the preserve of the left. That does seem to be a prevailing view on these forums, although, I want to make it crystal clear, it is patently NOT the view of our dear OP, Grannywils, who is the very model of fair mindedness.

 

For example, as I frequently say, I am a political Conservative who also works in Welfare to Work, thus so far from being spoon fed by right wing media as to what to think (and actually the BBC is very much left wing), my views are influenced by the effect of what I see in action every working day. I know that not all my clients are either raring to work and not being given a chance (as the left would see it) or workshy scoundrels (as the right would have it.). Undoubtedly there are some in each category, but most fall in between.

[grannywils]

Vagrant0 said:

The quagmire that most countries have fallen into is because they stopped making smart, calculated, logical choices, but instead have thrown themselves to the whims of voiced public opinion and become mired in endless, pointless, dirty discourse. The same problems that these forums have are the same problems that most of the world has, regardless of the benefit of a decision a vocal minority will always be there to derail it and people will always decide to play along to watch it crash and burn. What it really boils down to is direction and focus. Right now people seem to lack both.

 

Aurielius said:

Funny I would have said that I am a conservative for exactly that same preconditions of being able to think for myself, decide what I believe to be true without having it spoon feed to me. The divergence of what one considers the correct solution is really the sticking point, both sides have the best intentions but diametrical opposites cannot both be right at the same time. Fortunately the pendulum of political thinking in governance swings back and forth giving both ideologies a chance at bat. It's the middle that controls the country not the extremes on both sides and they decide when they have had enough of one version or another, which in the long long is trend to moderation....sort of the way the founding fathers had in mind in the first place,

 

GinnyFizz said:

Quite so, Aurelius, I am at something of a loss as to why the ability to think critically and logically and make up one's own mind should be considered the preserve of the left. That does seem to be a prevailing view on these forums, although, I want to make it crystal clear, it is patently NOT the view of our dear OP, Grannywils, who is the very model of fair mindedness.

 

What I would like to say to all of the above is that right, left or in between, the point is that all of you have something important to say, and that you say it articulately and no on has any difficulty understanding it. Personally I do not find what you say to be all that different from one another. The problem seems to lie in trying to define it as a "right", "left" or "conservative", "liberal" viewpoint. How other people see it is, in my opinion, less important, than how you feel about it and how you go about expressing yourselves. Of course you have differing opinions on specific issues. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm trying to get at something more substantive than that. None of us are correct all the time. None of us know it all. None of us have all the facts. All of us are reasonably intelligent. And all of us are entitled to our opinions viewpoints and to the expression of same. Rather than spending so much time on worrying about which side the poster represents, maybe those of us who are willing might try to spend more time listening to what the poster has to offer in the way of information and intelligent argument. If we don't prejudge each poster by "which side he/she is on" and just listen (with mouth closed), take time to think, and then respond, maybe there is a scintila (sp?) of hope we will get more out of our discourse.

 

 

[marharth]

I am called "left wing" why? Probably because I actually think about things logically and work off the basis of my own knowledge instead of letting someone tell me what they think is right. What matters is not how conservative or liberal my, or anyone's, views are, but rather if they are the best logical choice for the betterment of this world. The best choice may not be one I personally may agree with, but that does not mean I cannot accept it as a step in the right direction.

 

 

Funny I would have said that I am a conservative for exactly that same preconditions of being able to think for myself, decide what I believe to be true without having it spoon feed to me. The divergence of what one considers the correct solution is really the sticking point, both sides have the best intentions but diametrical opposites cannot both be right at the same time. Fortunately the pendulum of political thinking in governance swings back and forth giving both ideologies a chance at bat. It's the middle that controls the country not the extremes on both sides and they decide when they have had enough of one version or another, which in the long long is trend to moderation....sort of the way the founding fathers had in mind in the first place,

 

That's my point really.

 

@vagrant

I have to say I am on the left since my views are considered left .

 

I think my views are correct, but of course people on the right will think there views are correct.

 

You can't just say that the left is logic and the right isn't. Even if that's what you think others will think differently so you have to use separating terms.

[grannywils]

OY.... :wallbash: