Infinity Chest stretches or invisible chest area on female chars

[Talonvore]

I use HGEC BBB body replacer by Coronerra and also EVE_HGE Bodystock and clothing replacer. The problem is for whatever reason NPC women that are wearing clothes, women wearing armor seem not to be a problem, have weird graphical glitches with the chest area. I've done everything i can think of to resolve this:

 

1: Have tried adjusting load orders

2: Made sure that i had Corornerra's Maximum Compatibility Skeleton Installed.

3: Did Archive Invalidation through OBMM, using both BSA Invalidation and BSA Alteration

4: Have gone through the read me to see about any potential conflicts and dont see anything that should be causing this issue.

 

Funny thing is when i first noticed it the, the stretching glitches were small lines and the more i've tried to resolve the issue the worse the graphical glitches have become to the point now that they are huge lines that fill the entire screen. Im really at a loss here, i'll provide my load order via OBMM

 

Oblivion.esm

Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm

Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm

Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm

Cobl Main.esm

Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp

UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp

Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp

DLCShiveringIsles.esp

Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp

MOBS SI.esp

MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp

FranOBSEConfig.esp

Natural_Weather_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael.esp

Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp

Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp

WindowLightingSystem.esp

Brighter_Torches.esp

ChaseCameraMod.esp

DLCHorseArmor.esp

MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

SG005_DHuntress.esp

Slof's Horses HA Essential.esp

Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp

Francesco's More Wilderness Life.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp

Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp

Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp

Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp

Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp

Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp

Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp

Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp

Cobl Glue.esp

Cobl Si.esp

Cobl Tweaks.esp

EM_CompInnsleeping.esp

AleswellHomeQuest.esp

LetThePeopleDrink.esp

QQuix - Divine Elegance Showroom.esp

SenTineL's Legendary Weapons And Armors.esp

Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp

Zira's Clydesdale Horses.esp

Knights.esp

Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp

EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp

MOBS Knights.esp

Blood&Mud.esp

xuldarkforest.esp

xulStendarrValley.esp

xulTheHeath.esp

XulEntiusGorge.esp

xulFallenleafEverglade.esp

xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp

xulChorrolHinterland.esp

xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp

xulBravilBarrowfields.esp

xulLushWoodlands.esp

xulAncientYews.esp

xulAncientRedwoods.esp

xulCloudtopMountains.esp

xulArriusCreek.esp

xulPatch_AY_AC.esp

xulRollingHills_EV.esp

xulPantherRiver.esp

xulRiverEthe.esp

xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp

xulImperialIsle.esp

xulBlackwoodForest.esp

xulCheydinhalFalls.esp

xulAspenWood.esp

xulSkingradOutskirts.esp

xulSnowdale.esp

xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp

Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp

EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp

PersuasionOverhaul.esp

Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp

Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp

Quest Award Leveller.esp

Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp

SetBody.esp

Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp

Francesco's level up mini mod - Slower skills x1.5.esp

RealisticLeveling.esp

Fransfemale.esp

Mayu's Animation Overhaul.esp

CTAddPose_osr1.esp

CTAddPose_osr2.esp

CTAddPose_osr3.esp

actors_in_charge.esp

Corean_hair_for_Original_race.esp

Nec Mystic High Elf-Remake.esp

Nec - Extra Mystic Elf Face.esp

IDKRRR_C_race.esp

Chocolate Elves.esp

Ren_Soya_KD's.esp

_Ren_BeautyPack_full + Soya's hair.esp

1em_Vilja.esp

ViljainAleswell.esp

KT_CustomRaceFix.esp

Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp

1em_Vilja_Bruse_as_Slofs_horse_by_Xtudo.esp

EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp

Edited March 16, 2011 by Talonvore

[fore]

It HAS to be CMCS not installed, or missing/wrong ArchiveInvalidation. Theoretically could be the animations for a completely different skeleton. Which animations have you installed?

 

Really sure you have CMCS installed (in characters\_male)? Which date and size do you see there?

For ArchiveInvalidation it is EITHER/OR. Did you test both ways individually?

You didn't try BSA redirection? This is said to be the "best" solution (although in my modding environment only Invalidation seems to work).

[Talonvore]

1. As to the size I have Skeleton.nif 75kb but the date has todays date becasue i deactivated and reactivatged with OBMM.

 

Skeleton.nif 75kb

Skeletonbeast.nif 75kb

 

2. Yes i did BSA Alteration and BSA Invalidation seperately. I did BSA Alteration , started Oblivion , went into game still had glitch , so then I exited Oblivion , did BSA Invalidation went back into Obliv still had glitches.

 

3 No i didnt try BSA Redirection becasue i havent seen many posts telling people to try that and it when i chose that option everything seemed to be greyed out except a line about Face Packs.

 

Btw i need to clarify that this issue is only with NPC females. My female character has no issues, as well as female NPC in armour dont have this issue either, hence why im pretty sure its not a skeleton issue. I will edit my original post to reflect this.

 

And thanks for tatking the time to try to help me with this issue.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Talonvore

[fore]

Maybe you post a picture of the glitches, but I'm pretty sure that you describe those spikes which come up when you use BBBed body/clothing/armor meshes without a BBBed skeleton. Read coronerra's Readme and tutorials on that issue.

 

But ... which BBB meshes do you use? You don't list anything but coronerra's body. So (original) clothing should not make any BBB related spikes...

[Talonvore]

The skeletons i use are Coronerra's found here : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27945 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33335

 

I've tried Coronerra's original skeleton and I've also tried the second one with body lift which is a modification of Coronerra's. I still get the graphics glitches with both (only having one activated at a time). Both are very simple to install and i've downloaded and reinstalled a few times just to make sure, so while im not an expert modder i have a pretty good grasp of the basics of installing mods, if they are'nt overly complicated, which these two arn't.

 

The HGEC BBB body replacer i use is also Coronerra's from here : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28235

 

I am using the "EVE_HGEC_BodyStock and Clothing OMOD" from here : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24078

 

and the "BBB for EVE" from here: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34324

 

If my problem was a skeleton issue would'nt my player character be glitched as well? Oh and on a side note i've also noticed that any women that i see that are not from vanilla Obliv, such as from a mod like Apachii Goddess Store or Vilja Companion by Emma, do not have the chest glitches.

 

It's kind of baffling to me, not sure whats going on. I have read all of Coronerra's Readme's and I've spent hours upon hours reading Readme's, installation instructions, and forums for mod trouble shooting as well as many articles, about modding in general over the past couple of weeks. Hell i've barely spent any time playing the game. Most of my time has been spent reading and reasearching about mods. I've made every attempt to not fall into the common mistakes i've read about which is why im really puzzled about my issue. I will figure out how to get a few screen shots and post them here when i get a chance.

 

Again Fore thanks for taking the time to try to help me and i've pretty much done everything you've suggested before i even made this post and i hope that doenst make me come off as a "know it all" casue i'll be the first one to admit i dont. However i have gone over all the basic steps that i know about so far to no avail. This is very frustrating becasue im at the point where i've gotten almost all the mods I want in the game and am ready to actually enjoy playing now but this glitch isn't one that i can ignore.

 

A little off topic but my last mod that i want to install is Banana's Better Cities and i've read all the read me's and read the forum for that mod in preparation and only reason im not installing it yet is casue i want to see the original's so that i can compare when i actually do install it.

[fore]

Weird. So if it's vanilla clothing only it hardly can be a BBB skeleton issue.

 

You don't describe your "glitches" very well. Are these spikes "to infinity"? Are they constantly visibls, or on and off, static or moving?

If they are on and off I come back to my idea that it has to do with bad animations.

Vanilla NPCs mostly walk, idle or talk. So which walkforward.kf and idle.kf do you use (in your _male folder)? Do you have specialidles (in your _male\idleanims)?

 

Wait. I see that you use MAO - Mayus Animation Overhaul. Im not familiar with what it really does, but it changes the NPC animations, and there seems to be no BBB support. You might try deactivating that.

 

EDIT: I checked MAO, and it comes with its own skeleton for vanilla NPCs, and this skeleton is no BBB. So that's the cause. :biggrin:

[Talonvore]

Late last night i kept trying various things and what i found is that the issues begin when i install "BBB for EVE HGEC stock replacer" from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34324

 

I had uninstalled that before with OBMM and it didnt resolve anything. However since then i found out that once i uninstall "BBB for EVE HGEC stock replacer i then have to uninstall "EVE_HGEC_BodyStock and Clothing OMOD" and then reinstall "EVE_HGEC_BodyStock and Clothing OMOD" and the issues goes away. Everything with the npcs are fine once i remove "BBB for EVE HGEC stock replacer". I've even killed some female NPC's for testing and removed their tops and they indeed have HGEC BBB bodies and not the stock bodies,but for some reason "BBB for EVE HGEC stock replacer" seems to cause some type of conflict.

 

However i also use Designer Body Spell by Saaya and for whatever reason if i change an npc's body to DMRA and then remove their top (only way to do this is to kill them to test it out) then the infinity chest stretch occurs again but honestly this doesnt overly concern me as im not really interested in changing NPC bodies that much except for my companions which oddly enough dont suffer from any of the glitches to the other regular NPC's.

 

So from what i can conclude their is a some conflict with BBB somehow when it comes to stock clothing but there doesnt seem to be a conflict with the HGEC BBB body by Coronerra sicne i can verify that the NPC's have the HGEC BBB bodies.

 

Sorry if i didnt give more details about the actual graphical glitch other than the description in the post title. Yes basically female npcs either tend to have chests that stretch out in long lines to infinity, or some of them just have big gaping holes where the chest graphics should be, with the stretching issue being the predominate glitch. The glitches dont flicker they stay on consistantly regardless of the actions the NPC's are performing.

 

Wow nice job spotting the possible conflict with MAO Fore!! It's interesting that you say MAO adds its own skeletons to NPC's becasue im pretty sure i read everything on his download page. I was under the assumption that MAO only dealt with animation files, with a script that told the game to access only the vanilla animations for NPC's. I could very well have overlooked the notes on skeleton replacers in the mod. I will go back and reread his files and also do some tests by removing MAO and reinstalling "BBB for EVE" and seeing if the chest glitches go away. I'll be sure to update what i find.

 

Thanks again Fore!!

Edited March 18, 2011 by Talonvore

[Talonvore]

Hmm i went back and read his description page and his readme, neither said anything about skeletons but then when i read a few pages into the discussion thread it does say in there that he changed skeletons and meshes??. Wow not sure why the skeletons had to be chaged but i wish there was someway to remove the skeleton changes. Howerver because the downlaod is already in omod format i cant remove any part of the mod which kind of sucks becasue i want cool animations to be used only by me but I also would like to have BBB compatibility but guess its either one or the other :(. Edited March 18, 2011 by Talonvore

[fore]

Putting a skeleton AND a complete set of animations in a seperate folder is the easiest way to give different groups of characters different animations. That's what MAO is doing. Scripting is possible, and I've done it in my NoMaaM Theatre mod, but 100s of animations for 100s of NPCs, and again after each loading a savefile is just too much overhead.

 

I checked the MAO skeleton, and now everything fits into the picture. You see "spikes to infiity" (the "proper" term for one of your glitches) if you have BBBed meshes (EVE_HGEC_BodyStock and Clothing OMOD) and a non-BBBed skeleton (MAO).

 

The MAO skeleton probably was one if coronerra's inputs. It is based on the original skeleton, and has one pair of wings and the main tail. But among others, it misses the boobs bones.

 

So one fix would to replace the MAO skeleton (in \Mayu's Animation Overhaul\Meshes\Mayu's Projects[M]\Animation Overhaul\Vanilla) with coronerra's CMCS.

 

EDIT: And of course you have to replace MAO animations by BBBed ones. Or all that doesn't make sense ;)

[Talonvore]

Hmm well i dont really want the NPC's to have BBB animations just my char and companions so replacing animations wouldnt be neccesary for me. So your saying i could simply go into the Mayu's Animation Overhaul\Meshes\Mayu's Projects[M]\Animation Overhaul\Vanilla and replace the skeleton.nif files there to fix the "spikes to infinity" issue for NPC's?

 

Secondly if i could jsut go in and manually replace the skeleton.nif files, since this was installed through OBMM in an Omod format , if i were to uninstall through OBMM later will it uninstall correctly/completely since i altered the files manually?

Edited March 19, 2011 by Talonvore