Which mod do you use? OOO or Francesco's?

[Axxaw]

Right now I'm using the base plugin for Francesco's mod, it changes the leveled lists to provide more static spawns in Oblivion, that's the purpose of it. OOO does that too, and in a more static manner but OOO adds a ton of custom items, creatures, and quests some of which were made whole cloth by modders. For instance Items added with OOO include The "Light of Dawn" sword, the Mellus Petilius' Armor set (and claymore), The Pegasus set of armor and weapons, custom enemies, or more specifically named bosses that I'm fairly certain were created by fans. OOO also changes a lot of gameplay mechanics that Francesco's mod doesn't even attempt to change (such as lock bashing, which is quite out of date now with Lock Bash Omega, harvestable containers and flora, security skill requirements for lock picking, and many others). To be honest nothing in OOO is really that beyond belief, but the fact remains that OOO adds things that aren't deliberately mentioned in canon, and while Francesco's mod might have options for new creatures and items they are only options. The base plugin doesn't add anything like what I mentioned OOO does.

[chaospearl]

I've never heard of either Fran's or OOO being non-canon. They both add new items and creatures to the game, but if you don't want to use a mod that adds "bone armor" because vanilla Oblivion doesn't have bone armor and therefore it isn't canon ... why are you using mods at all? The whole purpose of mods is to add things Oblivion doesn't have on its own.

 

The main difference between Fran's and OOO is simply that OOO makes the game's levels completely static. Fran's does not. In other words, OOO changes each location in the game so that Cave ABC is full of skeletons (a level 5 creature) regardless of whether the player enters the cave at level 1 or level 15. If you like that idea, use OOO. If you don't like it, use Fran's. There are obviously many other differences but that's the biggest one and the one that determines which mod you'll enjoy more.

[VGI]

Right now I'm using the base plugin for Francesco's mod, it changes the leveled lists to provide more static spawns in Oblivion, that's the purpose of it. OOO does that too, and in a more static manner but OOO adds a ton of custom items, creatures, and quests some of which were made whole cloth by modders. For instance Items added with OOO include The "Light of Dawn" sword, the Mellus Petilius' Armor set (and claymore), The Pegasus set of armor and weapons, custom enemies, or more specifically named bosses that I'm fairly certain were created by fans. OOO also changes a lot of gameplay mechanics that Francesco's mod doesn't even attempt to change (such as lock bashing, which is quite out of date now with Lock Bash Omega, harvestable containers and flora, security skill requirements for lock picking, and many others). To be honest nothing in OOO is really that beyond belief, but the fact remains that OOO adds things that aren't deliberately mentioned in canon, and while Francesco's mod might have options for new creatures and items they are only options. The base plugin doesn't add anything like what I mentioned OOO does.

 

Insight much appreciated.

[VGI]

I've never heard of either Fran's or OOO being non-canon. They both add new items and creatures to the game, but if you don't want to use a mod that adds "bone armor" because vanilla Oblivion doesn't have bone armor and therefore it isn't canon ... why are you using mods at all? The whole purpose of mods is to add things Oblivion doesn't have on its own.

 

The main difference between Fran's and OOO is simply that OOO makes the game's levels completely static. Fran's does not. In other words, OOO changes each location in the game so that Cave ABC is full of skeletons (a level 5 creature) regardless of whether the player enters the cave at level 1 or level 15. If you like that idea, use OOO. If you don't like it, use Fran's. There are obviously many other differences but that's the biggest one and the one that determines which mod you'll enjoy more.

 

By "canon" I don't mean TES4: Oblivion the game, but the world of The Elder Scrolls. I understand that it is like Dungeons and Dragons (though I forget the name of the world of D&D)

 

If the world of The Elder Scrolls could have "Bone Armor", that it isn't that far-fetched, then I wouldn't care about it not being in Oblivion (the game). Same with capes and crowns, etc. The fact of the matter is that, in the world of The Elder Scrolls, beast races shouldn't even be able to wear footwear meant for the more human races. Plus, Khajiits should be able to use their claws in hand-to-hand combat, and not just their fists. That was never in Oblivion (the game), but that is how it is in the world of The Elder Scrolls.

 

But these inputs you guys are telling me are giving me much desired info. I like the fact that Francesco's is modular. However, the votes say that 7 ppl uses OOO while only 4 uses Francesco's...so it is still kinda strange to me. I may just use the core mod of Francesco's...then again...oh geez I dunno...

Edited March 19, 2011 by VGI

[chaospearl]

By "canon" I don't mean TES4: Oblivion the game, but the world of The Elder Scrolls.

 

Okay, then. I was confused because originally, you said this:

 

If I am going to use Francesco's, does the optional stuff (items and creatures) really make the game less canon? If it does, in what way? Like, the creatures it adds to the game does not exist in the TES4? How about the items?

 

So what exactly are you concerned about? Items and creatures, or more like "the way the world works" as in your examples about beast races not wearing shoes? Every Elder Scrolls game that comes out changes the canon somewhat. There are a lot of creatures and items in Oblivion that weren't in Morrowind, Daggerfall or Arena. Technically, those creatures and items were not canon - until Oblivion came out. Now they are. The canon changed. I'm sure that when Skyrim is released there will again be lots and lots of new creatures and items that have never been seen in Elder Scrolls mythology before. They'll still be canon, because again, the canon changed.

 

As for the beast races and shoes thing... that's a hairy one, pardon the pun. Why do you feel that beast races wearing shoes is not canon? My Khajit wears 'em just fine. Blue suede shoes! All beast races in the vanilla game can wear shoes. Therefore it's canon, or is it?

 

In Morrowind, beast races could not wear shoes, so that was canon for a long time. Bethesda seems to have changed its mind on this one and unless there's a direct quote from one of Beth's Lore Masters out there, I don't think you can make a case either way. If you like Morrowind canon, then they can't wear shoes; if you like Oblivion canon, then they can.

 

We as players can't pick and choose which bits of which games we like the best or we feel make sense, and decide that only those bits are official Elder Scrolls canon. If it's in a vanilla game it's canon, period. If two vanilla games contradict themselves directly, personally I'd go with the most recent one, but you'll find a lot of Morrowind diehards who'd argue the "makes more sense the original way" position. There's also the argument that Oblivion was aimed at 15 yr old Xbox users and therefore it focused on action and usability and sacrificed a bit of lore, whereas Morrowind was more lore-correct at the expense of being text heavy and analytical, something that doesn't go over well with people who are looking for an action and eyecandy game.

 

Again, which argument you think is strongest depends entirely on what you feel the "right" answer is. But either way it's difficult to argue that one game is canon and one is not. I seriously wouldn't worry much about the canon aspect of Francesco's versus Oscuro's. Neither mod will do anything that jumps out at you as being very obviously non-canon or unbelievable, to the point where your enjoyment of the game is damaged.

 

As has been said, if you are really truly worried about it, I would go Fran's purely because OOO changes more "how things work" about the game, and Fran's mainly just adds additional creatures and items. Fran's is also slightly more compatible overall, slightly. These days there aren't many mods that would dare state they can't be used with OOO -- that's the kiss of death -- but you will find some, and there are also plenty that don't exactly conflict with OOO but they do run into issues because OOO changes locations in the game to be level-static.

 

If a quest mod was designed for low level players (and has a low level prize at the end, for instance) but it happens to send you to Dzonot Cave, and OOO has changed Dzonot Cave to be full of 25th level monsters... you see what I'm saying.

Edited March 19, 2011 by chaospearl

[lonewolfkai]

I use neither. I use MMM and WAC. :thumbsup:

[Azrax]

I use neither. I use MMM and WAC. :thumbsup:

They're compatible?! This is good news to me :D I have WAC installed after trying MMM, and was trying to find out if there's a way to bring them both together safely.

[lonewolfkai]

I use neither. I use MMM and WAC. :thumbsup:

They're compatible?! This is good news to me :D I have WAC installed after trying MMM, and was trying to find out if there's a way to bring them both together safely.

No, they're not completely compatible. You'll need to either do a manual patch to make them work or change the load order somewhat. For example, if you use the two together, do not use Overspawn. Also, the factions in WAC revert some of the factions of MMM back to vanilla settings. In this case, I just redid my bash patch to not include the factions of WAC and then changed the load order so that MMM loads after WAC. So far, so good.

Edited March 21, 2011 by lonewolf_kai

[VGI]

By "canon" I don't mean TES4: Oblivion the game, but the world of The Elder Scrolls.

 

Okay, then. I was confused because originally, you said this:

 

If I am going to use Francesco's, does the optional stuff (items and creatures) really make the game less canon? If it does, in what way? Like, the creatures it adds to the game does not exist in the TES4? How about the items?

 

So what exactly are you concerned about? Items and creatures, or more like "the way the world works" as in your examples about beast races not wearing shoes? Every Elder Scrolls game that comes out changes the canon somewhat. There are a lot of creatures and items in Oblivion that weren't in Morrowind, Daggerfall or Arena. Technically, those creatures and items were not canon - until Oblivion came out. Now they are. The canon changed. I'm sure that when Skyrim is released there will again be lots and lots of new creatures and items that have never been seen in Elder Scrolls mythology before. They'll still be canon, because again, the canon changed.

 

As for the beast races and shoes thing... that's a hairy one, pardon the pun. Why do you feel that beast races wearing shoes is not canon? My Khajit wears 'em just fine. Blue suede shoes! All beast races in the vanilla game can wear shoes. Therefore it's canon, or is it?

 

In Morrowind, beast races could not wear shoes, so that was canon for a long time. Bethesda seems to have changed its mind on this one and unless there's a direct quote from one of Beth's Lore Masters out there, I don't think you can make a case either way. If you like Morrowind canon, then they can't wear shoes; if you like Oblivion canon, then they can.

 

We as players can't pick and choose which bits of which games we like the best or we feel make sense, and decide that only those bits are official Elder Scrolls canon. If it's in a vanilla game it's canon, period. If two vanilla games contradict themselves directly, personally I'd go with the most recent one, but you'll find a lot of Morrowind diehards who'd argue the "makes more sense the original way" position. There's also the argument that Oblivion was aimed at 15 yr old Xbox users and therefore it focused on action and usability and sacrificed a bit of lore, whereas Morrowind was more lore-correct at the expense of being text heavy and analytical, something that doesn't go over well with people who are looking for an action and eyecandy game.

 

Again, which argument you think is strongest depends entirely on what you feel the "right" answer is. But either way it's difficult to argue that one game is canon and one is not. I seriously wouldn't worry much about the canon aspect of Francesco's versus Oscuro's. Neither mod will do anything that jumps out at you as being very obviously non-canon or unbelievable, to the point where your enjoyment of the game is damaged.

 

As has been said, if you are really truly worried about it, I would go Fran's purely because OOO changes more "how things work" about the game, and Fran's mainly just adds additional creatures and items. Fran's is also slightly more compatible overall, slightly. These days there aren't many mods that would dare state they can't be used with OOO -- that's the kiss of death -- but you will find some, and there are also plenty that don't exactly conflict with OOO but they do run into issues because OOO changes locations in the game to be level-static.

 

If a quest mod was designed for low level players (and has a low level prize at the end, for instance) but it happens to send you to Dzonot Cave, and OOO has changed Dzonot Cave to be full of 25th level monsters... you see what I'm saying.

 

My gosh, I...I didn't know that. The Elder Scrolls canon changes from game to game? Ok. Now that is insight and I thank you for taking the time and effort in sharing that.

 

OOO is still leading in the poll, but thanks to your input, whatever choice I do make will be much informed. This is probably one of the best informing thread I have started.