Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[Lisnpuppy]

I would really like to donnate some money to the modder's, but i don't really have enough to do so. Because i'm still in high school and that my familly isn't that rich at all.

 

Many folks on here are in a similar boat. Until you can afford it, or want to or whatever you can still be a valuable asset to the community. Learn something about modding and share that knowledge. Be helpful on the forums. Support mod authors and encourage others here. That is, at least to me, just as valuable or more so than money.

[sunshinenbrick]

"Making it more like Kickstarter", and "giv[ing] the person donating more input" is exactly the kind of behaviour that the game publishers won't allow unless they get a cut, (which is called "entering into a contractual relationship".) Once modding turns into a "real business", it's subject to all the rules of real businesses, including those pesky ones about ownership of IP and who can make money from it.

 

I suppose this all depends on the open-minded, sharing and generous nature of any said company.

[nonoodles]

In response to post #28716044. #28717259, #28725914 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

That's rather pessimistic point of view, Ghatto. Noone really knows what TES modding would look like if it was paid allowed long time ago. In April they pulled the plug out too fast to make any prediction from that small campaign. And in somewhat related field, writing genre prose, we used to have published books and free zins, then e-books plaftorms came and I didn't notice people arguing against it as you are against paid game mods.

 

The closing of public libraries and the freedom of knowledge is actually a very contentious issue. It's the same thing as digitisation in the music and movie market. Its all very nice and great but there are people out there who want to control it all. There is a lot of money involved, but that does not make it the right thing to do.

 

EDIT: Let me just explain what I mean a little further... the Nexus and sites like it are digital libraries. The recent paywall fiaso was the equivalent to trying to privatise a library with its members and workers picketing for better rights and conditions.

 

While I am for dedicated and good modders getting paid, it should be done in a respectful and decent manner. This cannot be isolated to what happened here even if it was a catalyst - there is a real danger with these unilateral trade agreements of which the paywall is an excellent example. While they give with one hand, a "job" and money, they take with the other, no social security, no national insurance, no retirement plan, no unemployment benefit (in case you get ill while modding)... the list goes on.

 

Being a modder of a professional calibre does not happen over night, it takes days, weeks, months, even years of hard graft, and most of that time would not be paid! And after all that... 25%, of which is 'wallet points' under a certain threshold?

 

Having a bath...

nonoodles wrote: I think the point is, rather, that the matter is completely out of our hands. Whether or not paid modding is ever (re)introduced is not something that can be decided by you, me, Nexus or the community as a whole.

Bethesda is going to do whatever they want with their property. The ongoing discourse is fine but also rather pointless. If anyone has an issue with paid modding, they really ought to be taking it up with Bethesda. Modders and mod users alike can only argue in circles here, which ends with all of us angry and upset once again.

More to the subject at hand, I think Nexus has done a lot where donations are concerned. It's also obvious that pushing the studio any more on the subject of Patreon etc. could jeopardise an already rather precarious situation. Making the donation button more 'spammy' might achieve the opposite of the intended effect. So, taking an evening off is the only viable suggestion that pops into mind right now.

adammcbane wrote: "Bethesda is going to do whatever they want with their property. The ongoing discourse is fine but also rather pointless."

Not pointless at all, change starts with discussions. People did take it up with Bethesda, it's why Bethesda stopped and put out a statement admitting that. At that time Skyrim took a big hit even in game rating, so yes there are stuff that can be done, and no Bethesda can't really do anything they want if the entire community is against them almost no company can survive outright ignoring all it's customers to suggest that is silly especially given they admitted stopping due to the community outrage and honestly it wasn't even near the whole community.

I have spent nearly 200 hours on the CK and am working on a mod I hope to release soon and I can say that for me modding is more or less like playing the game, so for me demanding money is just silly, a donation I feel is very different. I can put a thousand hours into a mod and the community buys me just a cheeseburger from a dollar menu at Mcdonalds and I'd eat that burger with a huge smile lol.

Yes of course, change can come because of discussion. Looking at what happened during April, I see that the 'discussion' brought about certain changes, as follows:

- Valve pulled the plug on the paid mods system, for reasons known only to them

- instead of Bethesda abandoning the idea altogether, it is more probable they are laying a new foundation for paid mods

- except there is now a possibility that they might prefer to go it alone rather than entrust the fate of a potentially lucrative market to Valve

- which actually puts mod authors in a more favourable position, with better chances of gaining a bigger cut from their sales now that the middleman is gone

- and may also have the happy effect of having Bethesda put an improved system in place rather than the eyeroll-inducing mess we saw on the Workshop.

That's the change I see being brought about by the April 'discussion'. In any case, I was redirecting the ire of some commenters to the correct target. If they want to rant, rant at Bethesda and not the mod creators.

[MrDave]

RE: Bethesda believing they have a claim on all mods.

I can make a mod without using one single thing Bethesda created. I make my own content, every pixel and every polygon, then I use third party tools to implement them. So how is it Bethesda should profit from this? They should be paying me for increasing sales of their games. After all, I only have the largest all original mod out for Skyrim, and my franchise, Bob's Armory, has been so extremely popular for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim that entire groups of sub mods have been created around it. Bethesda didn't make Bob's Armory. I did. So how is it they should get a cut? In some businesses, if you walk in demanding an implausible cut from someone's net gains, you get shot. Smells like organized crime to me.

 

Anyway, to the subject at hand.

I am personally not fond at all of the newly implemented donation changes. I get spammy pop ups all over the place asking for donations now, when that never happened before. And the offensive part is that these people did NOT create the content they are shoving pop ups in my face for. Why is it, when I have to download some random follower mod to make sure it isn't crediting someone else for my work (happens around 4 times a week actually), I get spammed with multiple donate pop ups, then find my work included without credits? My work is uploaded for FREE. So why should anyone be able to demand money for something I made?

 

I think the original system with the single donate button up where the track, endorse, etc. buttons are should be the limit. And the more I am spammed with donate buttons from people who did not create the work, but only downloaded it and re uploaded it, the more vehemently I feel about this. I don't have patience for people trying to profit off riding my, or anyone else's coat tails anymore.

[vulchor]

I just wanted to say that I hope any redesign you do with revamping donations and making them more front and center still stays low-key. I've been coming to the nexus sites since Morrowind was the go-to game of the time, and I love the way everything is right now. I've donated occassionally to big mods that I can't live without (eg. SkyUI), but you're right... the donate button is too small and out of the way right now. I even forget about it most of the time.

 

I would be happy with implemented the system that when a file is endorsed, a pop-up reminds me to donate if I love it. I would certainly donate more often then too I bet. As for another donation tab, or a new section for modders to talk about their donators, bleh. It sounds cheesy and very uninteresting for 99% of the visitors. I don't want public recognition for my measly $5-20 I'll donate, I don't more friggen newsletters a la Kickstarter. Just keep it small and simple, but more visible than it is now. I trust you'll do it right, Robin, you've kept this place the (by far and wide!) classiest modding site on the webs.

 

Thanks for all you do Nexus team and modders. It's the reason PC gaming thrives.

[Armyboy2010]

I have installed my mods but it wont let me run or open them, I have followed guide from Youtube and it still doesn't work, has anyone else had the same problem? If so get back to me ASAP because I really want to have fun playing Skyrim but I cant coz ive done the same quests about 30 times on Xbox and I got it on pc to have fun and mess on, ive had the game for 3 days ad ive spent all 3 day trying to get it to work. Anyone with suggestions please type asap.

[phellen]

When it comes to making money off of mods I think Bethesda is probably in the process of changing up their strategy. They've tried the marketplace idea through steam, and we all know how that turned out. Hosting mods is probably their next best plan. This is just speculation of course, but If I were them, I would find a way to host all the mods (similar to what the nexus does) but for consoles since that is where 90% of all the gamers are going to go to play Bethesda's games. Edited September 16, 2015 by phellen

[sunshinenbrick]

I have installed my mods but it wont let me run or open them, I have followed guide from Youtube and it still doesn't work, has anyone else had the same problem? If so get back to me ASAP because I really want to have fun playing Skyrim but I cant coz ive done the same quests about 30 times on Xbox and I got it on pc to have fun and mess on, ive had the game for 3 days ad ive spent all 3 day trying to get it to work. Anyone with suggestions please type asap.

 

Assuming this is not a joke and before you get any vitriol, I suggest you find the correct place to ask these questions in the future.

 

As I don't like to leave people who need help in the lurch, you could try start here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/6131/?

[bben46]

I would really like to donnate some money to the modder's, but i don't really have enough to do so. Because i'm still in high school and that my familly isn't that rich at all.

The mods are FREE we do not require payment or donations of any kind to download or use the mods here. We never have. We do like to encourage those people who do have the extra money to donate a bit to the authors, but it is not necessary to do so to enjoy the mods. A thank you to the authors means a lot also. :thumbsup:

 

If you feel you want to help out with the site, we can always use some help tagging mods. :yes:

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #28740509.

Mr. Dave wrote: RE: Bethesda believing they have a claim on all mods.
I can make a mod without using one single thing Bethesda created. I make my own content, every pixel and every polygon, then I use third party tools to implement them. So how is it Bethesda should profit from this? They should be paying me for increasing sales of their games. After all, I only have the largest all original mod out for Skyrim, and my franchise, Bob's Armory, has been so extremely popular for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim that entire groups of sub mods have been created around it. Bethesda didn't make Bob's Armory. I did. So how is it they should get a cut? In some businesses, if you walk in demanding an implausible cut from someone's net gains, you get shot. Smells like organized crime to me.

Anyway, to the subject at hand.
I am personally not fond at all of the newly implemented donation changes. I get spammy pop ups all over the place asking for donations now, when that never happened before. And the offensive part is that these people did NOT create the content they are shoving pop ups in my face for. Why is it, when I have to download some random follower mod to make sure it isn't crediting someone else for my work (happens around 4 times a week actually), I get spammed with multiple donate pop ups, then find my work included without credits? My work is uploaded for FREE. So why should anyone be able to demand money for something I made?

I think the original system with the single donate button up where the track, endorse, etc. buttons are should be the limit. And the more I am spammed with donate buttons from people who did not create the work, but only downloaded it and re uploaded it, the more vehemently I feel about this. I don't have patience for people trying to profit off riding my, or anyone else's coat tails anymore.

Simple. Bob's Armory is still derived from Skyrim. Without Skyrim, what is the mod? A collection of random bits you can't actually do much with.

Porting them to some other format means they no longer function in Skyrim.

It's not exactly hard to understand how derivative works work.

As for people stealing your stuff, report it. Nothing will happen if you don't and getting upset that it happens when you don't act on it isn't logical.