The Root

[marharth]

 

I doubt that things have changed much (except that you have no prayer of getting a class on astronomy in high school.) This foolish mechanism for teaching is not only boring but creates an incompetency in rationality and logic. And that's just one problem.

That whole thing I had with Aurelius was kind of pointless, I think we need to just agree to disagree and get back to the main topic.

 

I have to agree with the statement I quoted, the education system may be something that is part of the root that is not due to corporations.

[RZ1029]

Education system...

 

It's only half broken. College-level (what the rest of the world calls University) is pretty good from what I see, and it fairly competitive on a global scale. In some ways we're weaker than other countries, but we're stronger in others, and all-around I think we're fairly competent during the end-game.

 

That being said, the high-school level (That's years 10-15 for the rest of you, not sure if you call it high-school or not.) could use a serious application of duct tape and WD-40. We've got under-qualified teachers in half the classrooms where I came from, some of the ones who were qualified just couldn't teach worth a hoot. Then we had those few who were exceptionally good teachers that were qualified to teach the classes they taught. Unfortunately, 90% of those teachers were in the 'higher-level' classes. (Honors and AP, etc) So even in public schools you have the rich get richer mentality. The good students get the better teachers and get even better. The average to bad students get average to bad teachers and might learn some, but not near as much as they deserve.

 

And I'm going to be late for class. I'll edit this later to finish my statement.

[marharth]

Education system...

 

It's only half broken. College-level (what the rest of the world calls University) is pretty good from what I see, and it fairly competitive on a global scale. In some ways we're weaker than other countries, but we're stronger in others, and all-around I think we're fairly competent during the end-game.

 

That being said, the high-school level (That's years 10-15 for the rest of you, not sure if you call it high-school or not.) could use a serious application of duct tape and WD-40. We've got under-qualified teachers in half the classrooms where I came from, some of the ones who were qualified just couldn't teach worth a hoot. Then we had those few who were exceptionally good teachers that were qualified to teach the classes they taught. Unfortunately, 90% of those teachers were in the 'higher-level' classes. (Honors and AP, etc) So even in public schools you have the rich get richer mentality. The good students get the better teachers and get even better. The average to bad students get average to bad teachers and might learn some, but not near as much as they deserve.

 

And I'm going to be late for class. I'll edit this later to finish my statement.

That's correct but if you have a good college system and a bad grade school system, not everyone its a lot harder to get into college.

 

Quite a few of my high school teachers thought Japan was still under the same type of government as it was in world war 2, the teachers pretty much suck.

[Aurielius]

 

So back to topic at hand, one problem is that my generation, the one most likely vote, was educated in piecemeal fashion and rarely given big picture insight, and I think that's part of the trouble. You went to biology and chemistry, and if you were lucky, astronomy, and in each of those classes you got an elemental chart but none of the teachers ever really acknowledged the whole perspective, and you probably had those classes in different years, and the pressure was on to get a grade, so who has time to contemplate the whole anyway. Likewise, you had a history class on the civil war, and later you had a history class on the continental war and later you had shakespeare, and if you were very lucky you may have gotten a class on medieval history or roman catholicism, but they were all far flung from each other and it was like looking at a square inch of the mona lisa without ever seeing the Mona Lisa.

 

 

I agree, our best asset in the early portion of the last century was the fact that we had a higher portion of population that was educated than our European counterparts by that I mean the pre high school education system was more universal than most other countries. Having not gone to public school I am at a disadvantage as to what it's flaws truly are. But if we want to compete with our economic rivals it does seems as if we should pay more attention to the system, other than just passing mandates on grade scores. It is hard enough for a young person to pick a career goal on entering college much less graduating from high school. To find your true calling at first go seems to be more luck than informed decision. So I must ask, do the career guidance councilors really serve a purpose in high school or just satisfy the adult's wish to have seemed to do something, anything to provide direction? Though we seem to be in times of economic retrenchment it strikes me as foolish to skimp on the educational investment of our young people who we will rely on for new ideas and technologies. I believe that education is an infrastructure item as important as repairing bridges, since they will be our bridge to future prosperity.

[grannywils]

Funny the topic has turned towards education in the last few posts. I was talking to a friend last night and he mentioned that my posts had not really been making any suggestions. I told him I had not realized that but that I would think it over, and that since there is such a broad spectrum with which to deal I would find a niche, and that it would probably be eductation in this country. Lo and behold, by the time I get back to the forum here we are...

 

The education system in the country has been a pet peeve of mine for years. Part of the problem is fairly simple, as Myrmaad describes. In high school we are taught these little segments of subjects in little boxes, and they are never brought together into any kind of "interesting" cohesive mass that we as teenagers with still developing minds can grasp onto. Unfortunately that is the easy part.

 

Education in this country has been so low on the totem pole of importance for so many years now, that no one cares. Everyone can jump up and down and hoot and holler all you want. Why, tell me why will some of you pay hundreds of dollars for seats at a sporting event or a concert or whatever, and carry on as if you are being asked to donate a kidney when you are asked to pay more in taxes for education. Is that basketball player "really" worth $XXX million a year? I don't give a rip how long his career might last. Does that Super Star movie star or singer "really" need to make that much money in order to entertain us? Meanwhile those people responsible for molding the minds of our FUTURE are being paid bupkis. Not only that, but many schools, particulary those in poorer neighborhoods (surprise, surprise), cannot afford the supplies (including up to date school books) that would enable the teachers to teach.

 

I'm not even close to being finished. Next, we have the quality of our teachers today. Guess what, many (not all) of the best of them have given up; just thrown up their hands and said,enough is enough. Can't really blame them, can you? But look at some of the ones with whom we are left. I have a lovely young niece whom I adore with all my heart. Thankfully she does not get on this site. The girl cannot spell to save her life. And doesn't know a whole lot about a whole lot either. Guess what, she teaches English to high school students. I rest my case. How about we come up with a way to pay teachers a fair salary. Maybe vote for candidates who really care about education for a change

 

Not done yet.... And then we come to the parents. When I was a child, parents were making darned sure that their children were doing their homework, and they were helping out when the kids needed it. They were taking an active role in the education of their children. How about we stop bribing our kids with video games, and start letting them know just how important it is for them to know something about life, history, mathematics, language, etc.

 

No, we do not always have to look to the government for solutions; but when the government has billions of tax dollars to spend, we might take more of an interest in where it gets spent. Education needs to be a much higher priority, or in my opinion there will be no future.

 

End of spiel for now. Over and out....

 

Oh, and Marharth, I'm so sorry to say it dear, but I sense in you a certain lack of willingness to take part in much of anything, at least physically. Nineteen is pretty much grown up. You're a big boy now. Please get a grip, son.

 

 

 

[Dicecaster]

Alright, first off (and I say this with utmost franticness), QUIT WAILING ON MARHARTH! Many of you (Aurielius, namely) attack his character without actually addressing his point (which is known officially as an Ad Hominem attack). While I disagree with a lot of what he has to say, he's been doing a most splendid job of keeping his peace as you basically accuse him of being unpatriotic, which is what has been keeping this thread from being locked because of a flame war!

 

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

[Aurielius]

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

Edited April 9, 2011 by Aurielius

[marharth]

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

We do need a public school system, some people can learn on there own just fine though.

 

I personally think the drop out age should be drastically lowered. I think eighteen is too high (16 is still too high, if its 16 if your state).

 

Kids and teenagers hate school, and they hate school for a reason. Forcing them to go won't help much at all.

 

A lot of kids make it worse for other people who want to learn in school, and some people want to learn in school but are not willing to do a lot of the pointless stuff the school system makes you do.

 

I do not think it should be switched over to private only, seeing as that would only benefit the schools and the people who can afford them.

 

We need to just reform the education system drastically.

 

One thing for sure is lowering the drop out age, I know that may seem bad but it is much easier for some people to just study and take a GED.

 

Lowering the drop out age would help in the long run I think, it would save tax money for one.

 

Also the school years are really repetitive, a lot of things are just retaught.

 

Also there is a lot of pointless writing and work you need to do in school.

 

What sense does it make to do 2 pages of the same kind of math? You clearly already know how to do the math if your solving the problems.

 

The system needs to be more leaned towards teaching, and less leaned towards "Write down a bunch of stuff, you'll be tested on it later so don't forget it."

 

Not to mention the teachers kind of suck, no offense to any good teachers but there are quite a few bad ones out there.

 

At least half of my teachers were mean as hell, and the only teaching they did was throw down a book and tell you to read it and write.

[Dicecaster]

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

We wouldn't just choose one and replace public school with it, we would just eliminate public school and leave the rest alone.

 

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

We do need a public school system, some people can learn on there own just fine though.

 

I personally think the drop out age should be drastically lowered. I think eighteen is too high (16 is still too high, if its 16 if your state).

 

Kids and teenagers hate school, and they hate school for a reason. Forcing them to go won't help much at all.

 

A lot of kids make it worse for other people who want to learn in school, and some people want to learn in school but are not willing to do a lot of the pointless stuff the school system makes you do.

 

I do not think it should be switched over to private only, seeing as that would only benefit the schools and the people who can afford them.

 

We need to just reform the education system drastically.

 

One thing for sure is lowering the drop out age, I know that may seem bad but it is much easier for some people to just study and take a GED.

 

Lowering the drop out age would help in the long run I think, it would save tax money for one.

 

Also the school years are really repetitive, a lot of things are just retaught.

 

Also there is a lot of pointless writing and work you need to do in school.

 

What sense does it make to do 2 pages of the same kind of math? You clearly already know how to do the math if your solving the problems.

 

The system needs to be more leaned towards teaching, and less leaned towards "Write down a bunch of stuff, you'll be tested on it later so don't forget it."

 

Not to mention the teachers kind of suck, no offense to any good teachers but there are quite a few bad ones out there.

 

At least half of my teachers were mean as hell, and the only teaching they did was throw down a book and tell you to read it and write.

Everything you just said would probably greatly improve the public school system greatly, but that's not the point. Public school is not necessary for maintaining our freedom, and therefore should not exist. As for line #5: if we took out public school, people will still think education is necessary, and there would then rise demands for education in one form or another. And, in keeping with the natural laws of economics, there would also rise a supply to meet those demands, so people would easily be able to afford it.

[marharth]

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

We wouldn't just choose one and replace public school with it, we would just eliminate public school and leave the rest alone.

 

Now, I'm homeschooled and have arguments aplenty against public school, but I find the point moot because it is an unnecessary governmental service which is, once again, paid for by tax dollars.

Just curious what would you replace the public school system with? Private, Parochial or Charter schools? There has to be some system otherwise many children would not get any education at all, or should we just lock the children in a library and see what they read?

We do need a public school system, some people can learn on there own just fine though.

 

I personally think the drop out age should be drastically lowered. I think eighteen is too high (16 is still too high, if its 16 if your state).

 

Kids and teenagers hate school, and they hate school for a reason. Forcing them to go won't help much at all.

 

A lot of kids make it worse for other people who want to learn in school, and some people want to learn in school but are not willing to do a lot of the pointless stuff the school system makes you do.

 

I do not think it should be switched over to private only, seeing as that would only benefit the schools and the people who can afford them.

 

We need to just reform the education system drastically.

 

One thing for sure is lowering the drop out age, I know that may seem bad but it is much easier for some people to just study and take a GED.

 

Lowering the drop out age would help in the long run I think, it would save tax money for one.

 

Also the school years are really repetitive, a lot of things are just retaught.

 

Also there is a lot of pointless writing and work you need to do in school.

 

What sense does it make to do 2 pages of the same kind of math? You clearly already know how to do the math if your solving the problems.

 

The system needs to be more leaned towards teaching, and less leaned towards "Write down a bunch of stuff, you'll be tested on it later so don't forget it."

 

Not to mention the teachers kind of suck, no offense to any good teachers but there are quite a few bad ones out there.

 

At least half of my teachers were mean as hell, and the only teaching they did was throw down a book and tell you to read it and write.

Everything you just said would probably greatly improve the public school system greatly, but that's not the point. Public school is not necessary for maintaining our freedom, and therefore should not exist. As for line #5: if we took out public school, people will still think education is necessary, and there would then rise demands for education in one form or another. And, in keeping with the natural laws of economics, there would also rise a supply to meet those demands, so people would easily be able to afford it.

I am not sure if I would trust businesses with education though.

 

I also think its necessary to have a free system, since private schools and such can shut down whenever and make up whatever rules they want as long as they follow the laws.