Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[charlesbsbio]

Well, tried the new version. Won't let me install "True Wolves of Skyrim" (which I love) reinstalled 56.1 over the 60.3 version without uninstalling any of the mods, than reinstalled "True Wolves" without any problems. Skyrim SEEMS to be working okay. Doing it this way might be a way to avoid having to remove all your mods, uninstall 60.3, install 56.1 and then reinstalling all of the mods.

I will be tracking the NMM 60.3 and "True Wolves of Skyrim" to see if someone can figure out a way to let them work together.

I know a lot of work went into the NMM 60.3 so thank you for the effort.

At least you weren't doing a live demo and having it fail in public like what happened to Microsoft.

Edited September 18, 2015 by charles_bsbio

[Morandone]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

[PhillipJokar]

As someone who actually looks at what they put on their computer, I was very happy that you guys put up multiple warnings for this version.

 

Since I use a ton of merged and overwritten mods I'll be sticking with 0.56.1 and making a list of things that I need to do once I decide to use the update.

 

Thanks for the continued work.

[Karos982]

I understand of course that this software is in beta and therefore is prone to issues but the new version of the manager is completely unusable.

 

Whenever I attempt to update to the new version whether or not I select yes or no, two loading bars pop up one starts progressing and freezes, whilst another doesn't even show any signs of starting. The bar that starts but doesn't finish says uninstalling installed mods, and the other simply seems to pick one of my mods at random to say it's uninstalling and just sits there.

 

The entire process seems to freeze and just sit there frozen, I've left my PC running the process overnight and no progress whatsoever. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the manager and that hasn't worked either.

 

Has anyone else encountered this issue or knows of a way round it?

[toonamove]

In response to post #28801289.

PhillipJokar wrote:

As someone who actually looks at what they put on their computer, I was very happy that you guys put up multiple warnings for this version.

 

Since I use a ton of merged and overwritten mods I'll be sticking with 0.56.1 and making a list of things that I need to do once I decide to use the update.

 

Thanks for the continued work.

Same here.

[marjimdt]

Dark One,

I have been with you now for a number of years and have gone thru some rough times and some great times. In those years though, You have ALWAYS been honest with us and have ALWAYS worked hard to fix the issues.

This is something that you WILL fix and it will be fine. I know that I usually say some snarky comment or two, but you have always come thru for us.

Thank you for everything.

 

[DCWillis]

I have several mods that I have downloaded and modded the mod for my own personal use. This update did not use the files on my system and I lost all the changes I had made. Hours of work flushed down the drain.

 

IT DID NOT SAY IT WOULD DOWNLOAD A VERSION AND NOT USE THE ONE ALREADY ON MY MACHINE.

 

I am not yelling, just making sure this is seen.

[GothikaGeist]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

[zcul]

Sorry, I cannot understand any complaints and threats against the team, that provided the community with NMM in general and a new generation of NMM (0.60 +) in alpha version - for free and up to everyone's personal choice and own discretion to download and install - or not.

 

Well, I, sorry for this, have not dared so far to try the 0.60+ version (sorry again, that I am not one of the feed back giving users), although Gopher provided us with an easy to follow vid tutorial, how to return to a previous NMM version. If the team had not provided us with a mod manager like FOMM or NMM at all, how would we have been able to put mods in an order, to make Skyrim and other supported games running as stable as possible generally and to install or uninstall mods in a very, very easy and comfortable way by clicking on some buttons, instead of going through a - sometimes huge - number of special/loose files in the data directory manually (e.g. SMIM)?

Users, please, if you download a program for free, that provides you with an allegedly easy and comfortable way to install and uninstalll mods, do not blame the programmers for any damage of your game ... please, do not expect any individual solutions to your individual hard- and software configuration in connection with a vid/PC-game ...

No one forced the team to provide us with NMM to make installation/uninstallation of mods easier, the more less, no one forced anybody to download and use a mod manager in alpha-, beta- or whatever-version...

 

Dark One, thank you to you and the whole team for running this site (that supports a lot of other games beside Skyrim) ...

 

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by zcul

[lexx005]

Just wanted to say that I have over 200 mods installed, and went ahead and updated NMM, The initial update went as it should with the update uninstalling every mod, but instead of allowing NMM to re-install every mod, i chose to do it myself for a number of reasons, the most important of which was the fact the I needed to install everything in a certain order so that only certain mods would be over-written by one another, i.e. i have smim, ruffled feathers, ELFX, amidianborn textures, etc. Had I allowed the system to reinstall everything for me, it's likely the I would have a different set up for my game versus how it was prior to the update. But all in all, i had no issues what so ever with the update.

 

Thank you guys for all the hard work you do for us.

 

p.s. also wanted to mention for everyone who is having trouble, the likely culprit of the messes your experiencing is likely due to install order, you may need to uninstall the mods and reinstall them in the order that will achieve your desired effect. A small example is using xpmse, cbbe, ECE, and racemenu, if these are not installed in a certain order, your npcs in-game will all have funny looking horns growing from their chest and rears. I personally experienced this on my own install, and corrected it.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by lexx005