Where are we at with the redesign?

[Nadimos]

redesign?! wasnt it just yesterday or something? well anyway. if you do it: pls let us make mod collections or sort our tracked mods , so we can get an overview. right now the tracked mod list is unable to be sorted. otherwise im not sure i have any problem.

 

for me its always been good here.

 

and as for scaling? i just use the mousewheel.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Nadimos

[Nadimos]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.
Edited November 22, 2015 by Nadimos

[Nadimos]

In response to post #29888365.

Geofferic wrote: Unless the redesign includes not harassing those of us that pay for the site to then pay for each and every damned mod we download, the redesign is a failure.

That is the single most obnoxious thing this site does and if another site had the content and didn't harass me for *more money*, then I'd leave immediately.

Such bad form.

mods require time and effort to make by real people.

maybe you should get an idea what it takes by making a simple chair in a 3d prog and then try to uv it properly. i bet you gonna hate it. but these guys are at it for hours and all we do is simply clickedy click click click.

nvm trying to make a nice armor, which would include weight painting it and then having to fiddle around with the bones to look for any poke throughs.

truly its not a cookie cutter job.
Edited November 22, 2015 by Nadimos

[LucHighwalker]

In response to post #29888365. #30821765 is also a reply to the same post.

Geofferic wrote: Unless the redesign includes not harassing those of us that pay for the site to then pay for each and every damned mod we download, the redesign is a failure.

That is the single most obnoxious thing this site does and if another site had the content and didn't harass me for *more money*, then I'd leave immediately.

Such bad form.

Nadimos wrote: mods require time and effort to make by real people.

maybe you should get an idea what it takes by making a simple chair in a 3d prog and then try to uv it properly. i bet you gonna hate it. but these guys are at it for hours and all we do is simply clickedy click click click.

nvm trying to make a nice armor, which would include weight painting it and then having to fiddle around with the bones to look for any poke throughs.

truly its not a cookie cutter job.

what Nadimos said ^^. Though it would be nice to disable it somehow. Some of us are simply too broke to donate, as much as we would like to.

[Sebiale]

Bit late to this party so I'm not sure if anyone will answer--are there any plans with the new site to alter the structure so that you don't need to log into the Mod and Forum sections separately? It's not a major desire, just something I'm curious about.

 

Otherwise I'm glad to see that this is progressing.

[DoradusMaximus]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760, #30820730 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

Nadimos wrote: i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.

What if nobody likes the new design and the old design is ultimately better? Edited December 1, 2015 by DoradusMaximus

[DoradusMaximus]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760, #30820730, #31266780 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

Nadimos wrote: i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.

DoradusMaximus wrote: What if nobody likes the new design and the old design is ultimately better?

Dark0ne, You do realize that Arethiel was being sarcastic, right???

[DoradusMaximus]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760, #30820730, #31266780, #31266855 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

Nadimos wrote: i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.

DoradusMaximus wrote: What if nobody likes the new design and the old design is ultimately better?

DoradusMaximus wrote: Dark0ne, You do realize that Arethiel was being sarcastic, right???

The real saying is: If it isn't broken, then don't fix it - Changing things that don't need to be changed creates only confusion, particularly amongst the more experienced advocates. Edited December 1, 2015 by DoradusMaximus

[DoradusMaximus]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760, #30820730, #31266780, #31266855, #31266935 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

Nadimos wrote: i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.

DoradusMaximus wrote: What if nobody likes the new design and the old design is ultimately better?

DoradusMaximus wrote: Dark0ne, You do realize that Arethiel was being sarcastic, right???

DoradusMaximus wrote: The real saying is: If it isn't broken, then don't fix it - Changing things that don't need to be changed creates only confusion, particularly amongst the more experienced advocates.

What spaces are unused? Where are these "problems" you speak of? I occasionally have some slowness due to high traffic, but high traffic has nothing to do with the design of the website interface - it's simply the web servers!

[DoradusMaximus]

In response to post #29807115. #29813455, #29854220, #29860320, #29873390, #29897050, #29899795, #29908335, #29908425, #29914580, #29952060, #29954330, #30409760, #30820730, #31266780, #31266855, #31266935, #31267035 are all replies on the same post.

Arethiel wrote: If it ain't broke, better mess with it.

Dark0ne wrote: That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here.

The point isn't to fix, the point is to innovate and improve with modern times, technology and needs.

Arethiel wrote: There's nothing that needs to be changed about the site to meet "modern needs" though. Maybe a couple things here and there but an entire site redesign is unwarranted. On top of that, people who have been around awhile may in fact have more difficulty navigating a new site thus frustrating them if the redesign is as "modern" as Windows 8 was.

Now maybe the back end of the site needs a redesign due to poor coding or coding that simply was designed with fewer users in mind, but I wouldn't say that it needs to be modernized, probably just fixed (though since I can't see the back end code it's a lot of speculation). I mean, hell, look at C++, that language is old as dirt but it's still the backbone of a lot of back end math engines and is still used quite a bit in the business field. I mean, COBOL is still used by Scott and White Hospital where I live and that came out in the 60s.

With all that said, as a professional programmer and amateur web admin I simply don't see the need here to mess with the user interface since code optimizations can generally be done without affecting the UI or the user at all, other then maybe faster site load times, or functions working more consistently.

Edit: It is also entirely possible I'll change my mind once we see the new site.

DrUlreich wrote: ^this
My greatest fear is thet they make it all white with the 'flat'' design-trend you see nowadays.
Nexusmods' ui is already so cozy

reportagain wrote: it is kinda broke though, if you do a quick search you will see how many f*#@ing glitches and bugs there are by doing certain things. especially after/before loging in.

Linebarrel33 wrote: "That sort of thinking is what ensured we moved past the Bronze age/Silver age/Iron age/Dark age/Insert other age of man here."

No offense of course but that's such a faulty/irrelevant comparison :/ He's just worried that the redesign will ultimately be unintuitive and/or more hampering than what the site is now when it ultimately works already at the end of the day.

BlindJudge wrote: The thing is, we are a little broken... Did you know that this site was originally coded to fit a 1024x768 screen which back in the day was fine, but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen we look very dated with our content as a strip in the middle of the screen.

Did you know that Google now adds weight to sites that are mobile optimised with their latest search algorithm release?

Did you know that some of the biggest responses we got on the surveys was that the site doesn't scale, or that we don't use tags very well to find content, that search is under-utilised and broken? We can address all of these and so much more with new web innovations, optimised code and some love and affection put towards a responsive design.

The survey results, our analytics and our users tell us a lot...

We are and will continue to try our hardest to provide you with a site that will help you find the mods that you are after, be they huge campaigns or little graphical tweaks, additional missions or a complete overhaul.

We are working to the ethos of: intuitive, functional, visual.

The site will be a long time in development, this is not an overnight project and will be released alongside the current site to enable people to report anything they find and get used to it. I have every faith in our team and users to help us achieve all our goals.

morpheas768 wrote: @Dark0ne:
Yes, because advancing through entire civilizations and technologies = the same as a web-redesign of a site. /sarcasm
This little phrase of the Ages can be used to justify any sort of change, be it small or massive.

But in any case, this analogy of yours is very very poor. Mostly because the "innovations" that you are implying are not true innovations, its things that have already been done by other websites, and the technology that you mentioned is already tried and tested.

Also, the Dark Ages were horrible times that humanity wishes it never happened since it brought us back in the past, for a while, it did not move us forward.

P.S. Not trying to bash on you guys, its just that this analogy is very poor indeed.

Halleytes3 wrote: The site as it is now is pretty ugly. There's a lot of unused space, it's slow to navigate (it could be a lot better), changing pages is glitching, whenever I load the next page it doesn't scroll me back up, the menus are ugly, the font family is bad, a Calibri or a Helvetica, or a Gibson or Lucida Sans would be a lot nicer. Anyway, this Trebuchet MS has to be changed. The navbar is outdated too, and I think that the space could be used a lot more efficiently. And to finish it, the website is heavy. A lot. I don't know if it's the server-side's fault, but I think it needs better writing anyway.
And as he said, renovate to meet modern times it's not the looks only, but the structure as well. WebDesign has evolved, HTML5 and CSS3 is here and it's always improving, JavaScript is a lot more powerful too. The new tools are here but aren't being used. Why is that important? Cause it can make everything faster and prettier. So yes, I does need a complete redesign.
Regarding Windows 8. The problem never was that it's hard to use, but that it was different. Elder people who never used any of system for a long time always found Win8+ easier to use. It seemed "hard" to old win7 users cause they pretty much lived in that, and then they got something different.

Dark0ne wrote: The analogy was simply making the point that if we just remained content with the status quo and how things were, without evening thinking to improve, we'd be no where. It wasn't particularly hard, though I have enjoyed the pedantic responses to a simple analogy.

95f890be wrote: > but with over 90% of our users now using at least a 1680px width screen

Are you saying you're tracking us?
Javascript is evil.

Halleytes3 wrote: Google analytics for example, mate. :PP

dindunuffins wrote: Are you seriously comparing a site layout to thousands of years of human development? What the f*#@ is wrong with you?

Nadimos wrote: i must say im quite happy with the site/admin/owner. i really dont know what can be improved other then maybe let us sort our tracked mods or let us make a mod collection on the site. but if you try to make this project happen, good luck.

and i probably dont need to say this, but if you really wanna make this try to share the design process with us. maybe put up some votes and screenshots. after that dev, site demo and then switch.

DoradusMaximus wrote: What if nobody likes the new design and the old design is ultimately better?

DoradusMaximus wrote: Dark0ne, You do realize that Arethiel was being sarcastic, right???

DoradusMaximus wrote: The real saying is: If it isn't broken, then don't fix it - Changing things that don't need to be changed creates only confusion, particularly amongst the more experienced advocates.

DoradusMaximus wrote: What spaces are unused? Where are these "problems" you speak of? I occasionally have some slowness due to high traffic, but high traffic has nothing to do with the design of the website interface - it's simply the web servers!

There is NO NEED for a change in interface re-design - doing so would just be annoying to anyone who has used the site before and would need to re-learn how to simply navigate the website.