Serious question: What's with all of the Nazi mods?

[FlyingHigh10000000]

EDIT: Adding this bit that I put in another post, because I feel it helps clarify why I'm even bringing this up in the first place.

 

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I guess the real issue I've found with some of this stuff isn't even the Nazi imagery in itself. It's the lack of effort and care that some of the folks who have made these mods have shown toward the subject they're tackling. The author of the flag mod I referred to, for instance, at least makes a note that they're not a Nazi. There are a few mods where the author doesn't seem to even care that they just slapped a swastika onto something and didn't feel the need to even address it. Instead, it gives the impression that they either don't care about the subject, or worse, that they might agree with the Nazi ideals.

 

Making Nazi mods, sure. That's not inherently a bad thing. Not taking the time to at least condemn the Nazi regime for its crimes, or even mention that you don't agree with what the symbols represent, though? That's kind of messed-up, because it indicates a serious lack of respect toward the people that what you're portraying has harmed.

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Original post is below this line.

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This is honest-to-gods not an attempt to start a flame war or anything like that. I'm very, very curious about something that I've noticed a whole lot of over the past week or so. Namely, the amount of mods for Fallout 4 that involve Nazis/WW2 Germany in some way. I've seen everything from German Minutemen artillery officer sound mods, to outright retextures of the Minutemen flag to the Nazi flag, and even things like the star on the front of combat armor being replaced with a swastika.

 

 

What's the deal with this stuff? When did Nazis get such a large presence in the Nexus community, and how is this sort of thing allowed to keep going on? I've seen a few people say that it's within their rights to make whatever mods they want, but shouldn't we as a community discourage this sort of thing? Or shall we just go whole-hog and do ISIS flag replacements, and replace the Minutemen uniforms with ISIS gear?

 

 

I've also seen people defend it with, "If you censor this, you need to censor all of the MLP and John Cena mods." No. That's not even close to the same thing. You can't just equate Nazis to bronies and wrestling fans, and act like that's in any way reasonable.

 

 

More importantly, and this question is ONLY for a moderator to answer,(I won't be acknowledging any answers from non-moderators for this specific question.) does Nexus even allow Nazi symbolism in mods, and if so, what's the reasoning behind that? Isn't content that displays hatred of any given race or sexual preference against the rules? Nazi symbols, flags, and uniforms are heavily associated with a government whose policies included a whole lot of hatred, and genocide. Where is the line drawn, exactly? Is it only at a point where the hatred is directly stated in plain text/speech? Would a Stormfront-themed shirt texture somehow be allowed, despite it being a white supremacist website?

 

 

I get it. The internet is a crappy place sometimes, and Nazis exist. But do we really need to let this sort of thing also flourish in a community as diverse and generally respectful as Nexus? Can't we hold ourselves above allowing symbols of bigotry and hate to sit beside every other mod? This isn't the same as allowing a nude mod, or a MLP mod, or any other mod currently out there right now. Nazism is objectively dangerous and hateful. Germany's actions in World War II led to the murder of millions of innocent people. Men, women, children, old people, sick and healthy alike, were murdered by the thousands.

 

 

Nazi mods are always going to be around. I'm not suggesting that we do something dumb like try to get every place ever to remove any Nazi-themed mods. I'm suggesting that maybe a place as well-known and with as much exposure as Nexus consider what allowing these sorts of mods implies.

 

 

Maybe this will get me labeled as an "SJW". Maybe I'll get laughed at or insulted for stepping up to say something about this, told that I'm too much of a bleeding-heart white knight, and that I should get out more, or get a hobby. Or maybe I'll get called a Nazi myself, because it's censorship to want to see the removal of Nazi-themed mods. But as far as I'm aware, simply having an opinion on the matter isn't against Nexus rules, and I haven't seen anyone else bring the topic up here yet. All I ask is that the community consider if this sort of thing is what they really want hanging around them, and that the people in charge of this place do the same.

Edited November 24, 2015 by FlyingHigh10000000

[ShinraStrife]

I agree with censoring mods like those. While people should feel entitled to their point of view, there comes a point where nexus moderators should ask themselves if its worth having a lot of people uncomfortable being on the site due to a hateful presence against their race, or just a few people uncomfortable being on the site cause their mod was taken down for anti-semitic themes.

Edited November 24, 2015 by ShinraStrife

[LordGrievous]

The mod community is far larger for FO4 than it's ever been for a past game, and is set in an alternate version of our own history. By sheer volume of mods, you're bound to get some like this. Since its kind of hard to make any modifications of substance, I suppose people busy themselves with re-textures of flags, which doesn't take much time or effort and can still get noticed this early in the games lifecycle.

 

I, personally, don't discourage people from modding their game and sharing whatever content they like. I am not obligated to download or install it. I'd hardly consider the community as being "encouraging" of it. Such mods tend to have few downloads and fewer endorsements, and will eventually be buried under mods that have some quality to them.

 

While I agree that Nazi mods aren't positive, I think that censoring something because it's objectively offensive is a very dangerous road to go down for a site that's built its history off of being a relatively open platform. Something being objectively offensive is almost never the case, and that slope is a slippery one to tread.

Edited November 24, 2015 by LordGrievous

[FlyingHigh10000000]

The mod community is far larger for FO4 than it's ever been for a past game, and is set in an alternate version of our own history. By sheer volume of mods, you're bound to get some like this. Since its kind of hard to make any modifications of substance, I suppose people busy themselves with re-textures of flags, which doesn't take much time or effort and can still get noticed this early in the games lifecycle.

 

I, personally, don't discourage people from modding their game and sharing whatever content they like. I am not obligated to download or install it. I'd hardly consider the community as being "encouraging" of it. Such mods tend to have few downloads and fewer endorsements, and will eventually be buried under mods that have some quality to them.

 

While I agree that Nazi mods aren't positive, I think that censoring something because it's objectively offensive is a very dangerous road to go down for a site that's built its history off of being a relatively open platform. Something being objectively offensive is almost never the case, and that slope is a slippery one to tread.

 

I see where you're coming from here, and to a point I do agree, despite what I said in my initial post. I agree that censorship isn't a good thing, and I'm by no means trying to say that Nazi-themed mods shouldn't exist. When done well, the aesthetics are intimidating, and powerful. There's a reason the Nazis used the symbols, flags, and uniforms that they did. Partly because some of the symbols were used by previous German regimes, and I would assume in part because some of the stuff really is quite intimidating. Sharp, dark uniforms with eagles and iron crosses have kind of always been a German thing. The Nazis just modernized the designs for their time, and put their own spin on it. Given the reaction most people these days have to even seeing a WW2 SS uniform, I'd say their designers did their jobs well. The reservation I have, and that I've seen others echo, is that Nexus is a pretty big, diverse place, and the things that WW2 Germany is known for have a lot of emotions and imagery associated with them that are pretty...painful, for some cultures and nations, including Germany itself.

 

I guess the real issue I've found with some of this stuff isn't even the Nazi imagery in itself. It's the lack of effort and care that some of the folks who have made these mods have shown toward the subject they're tackling. The author of the flag mod I referred to, for instance, at least makes a note that they're not a Nazi. There are a few mods where the author doesn't seem to even care that they just slapped a swastika onto something and didn't feel the need to even address it. Instead, it gives the impression that they either don't care about the subject, or worse, that they might agree with the Nazi ideals.

 

Making Nazi mods, sure. That's not inherently a bad thing. Not taking the time to at least condemn the Nazi regime for its crimes, or even mention that you don't agree with what the symbols represent, though? That's kind of messed-up, because it indicates a serious lack of respect toward the people that what you're portraying has harmed.

[jet4571]

I agree with LordGrievous. Robin already made a statement about censorship a few years ago and I agree with his outlook on it. If he doesn't like the mod he ignores it. If the owner of The Nexus can do that then everyone else should as well and in doing so would be respecting his wishes.

 

we don't need to start censorship beyond child sex and outright rape. It starts with Nazi flags and ends with only children's games can be here. Once you start censoring one thing there will be demands for others, it always happens.

[FlyingHigh10000000]

I agree with LordGrievous. Robin already made a statement about censorship a few years ago and I agree with his outlook on it. If he doesn't like the mod he ignores it. If the owner of The Nexus can do that then everyone else should as well and in doing so would be respecting his wishes.

 

we don't need to start censorship beyond child sex and outright rape. It starts with Nazi flags and ends with only children's games can be here. Once you start censoring one thing there will be demands for others, it always happens.

 

I'm definitely coming around to this view, quite quickly in fact. There's already one pretty slick reskin that clearly isn't just there to offend people, and it'd be a shame to lose that, even if it meant losing the "My first texture mod is a swastika on a random bit of armor" stuff. I can appreciate art like anyone else, and when effort is put in, even symbols that represent a rather offensive regime like the Nazis can be taken on their own merits, rather than on what they call back to. The same can't be said of basically slapping a swastika sticker on something. Plus, the person that made the X-01 reskin I'm referring to even put up a disclaimer. If nothing else, encouraging people that make Nazi or other offensive sorts of mods to put disclaimers like that up in the description is a good thing, because it helps reinforce that the actual Nazis and their crimes were not good.

[bleakwood]

Why there are so many of such mods? Might be because certain countries are starting to have a larger presence in the community. Countries where Nazi imagery and ideology is viewed somewhat differently than in the West. Maybe just plain ignorance.

Nazi uniforms also have a nice cut, no doubt.

 

I agree on the stance against censorship, its never the right answer. If you go down that road, about what some people might find offensive, it will never end.

You say it will be better if the creators stated that they didnt agree with the Nazi ideology? Do makers of nude mods state that they dont agree with the objectification of women? If disclaimers are mandatory they simply loose all credibility. Forced ethics are not ethics.

[FlyingHigh10000000]

Why there are so many of such mods? Might be because certain countries are starting to have a larger presence in the community. Countries where Nazi imagery and ideology is viewed somewhat differently than in the West. Maybe just plain ignorance.

Nazi uniforms also have a nice cut, no doubt.

 

I agree on the stance against censorship, its never the right answer. If you go down that road, about what some people might find offensive, it will never end.

You say it will be better if the creators stated that they didnt agree with the Nazi ideology? Do makers of nude mods state that they dont agree with the objectification of women? If disclaimers are mandatory they simply loose all credibility. Forced ethics are not ethics.

 

Nude mods don't in any way represent the objectification of women, though. A mod that displays Nazi symbols and/or flags and uniforms kind of represents Nazis, and thus the things they stood for. As far as I know, on its own the nude female form doesn't stand for anything in particular.

[jet4571]

"Do makers of nude mods state that they dont agree with the objectification of women?"

 

I want to see the person that pulls that rabbit out of their bum and says CBBE is objectifying woman for male fantasies. Caliente and Jeir are both woman, one made the models the other does support for the mod. Jeir said not long ago and I am paraphrasing "It's a female nude body, get over it.". The same can be said for the Nazi stuff, "It's a Swastika, get over it.".

 

 

*Edit, and hiding Nazi symbolism also hides the atrocities they committed. Don't censor but have it open for discussion instead of hiding it.

Edited November 24, 2015 by jet4571

[aikirob]

I whole heartedly disagree, the very first first person shooter ever made was wolfenstein 3d and guess what! NAZI PROPAGANGA MADE THAT GAME GREAT! the allied forces destroyed the nazis in two world wars and obliterated them, I am proud of my great grandfathers efforts in the war and I for one welcome any references to the third reich in my fallout experience I'll gladly punch a nazy head into slattered pieces ^.^