[Mod Idea] Gauging interest on a Weapon rebalance/"realism" Mod

[Doedel]

I've been thinking about making a mod for FO4 as I'm somewhat unhappy with the way weapons have been handled in the game, particularly in terms of abundance of customization options for Pipe weapons, plus some other minor details.

 

For the most part it's a simple enough mod I can do myself, but I would like to gauge interest and get feedback on the idea.

 

The basic principles of the mod can be seperated into two phases: Rebalancing existing guns, and adding/expanding Gun selection.

 

The first phase will involve primarily reducing the amount of gun conversion possible, by removing the ability to swap between different calibers/ammo types, as well as the ability to interchange between bolt-action/revolver, semi-auto and automatic receivers. It will also include rejigging overall gun availability and balancing to something you'd expect more from a post-apocalypse society's capability, and also some other minor tweaks. These changes affect mostly Pipe weapons, and will involve creating several different non-interchangeable pipe weapons depending on caliber and receiver type, with more advanced receivers (semi-auto and full-auto) being much more rare compared to more basic types (bolt-action and revolver).

 

The second phase will involve adding completely new weapons, based mainly on the Fallout universe, and filling some niches I feel are somewhat lacking in vanilla Fallout.

 

Phase One - Rebalance

 

A more detailed "changelog" for the first phase would be as follows (for our purposes the term 'pistol' will refer to semi-auto, magazine-fed pistols, differentiated from 'revolver'):

 

- Remove ability of all weapons to swap between different caliber/ammo types;

- Remove ability of most weapons to swap between single-shot, semi-auto and full-auto receiver types (exceptions being the Combat Rifle and possibly Assault Shotgun);

- Remove the ability/distinction of Rifles using Pistol ammo and vice versa;

 

- Add the following Pipe Pistol weapons to replace the current, single 'Pipe Pistol':

• .38 Pipe Revolver
• .38 Pipe Pistol
• 10mm Pipe Revolver
• 10mm Pipe Pistol
• .44 Pipe Revolver
• .44 Pipe Pistol
• .45 Pipe Revolver
• .45 Pile Pistol

- Add the following Pipe Rifle weapons to replace the current, single 'Pipe Rifle':

• 5.56mm Bolt-Action Pipe Rifle (aka .22 Varmint Rifle)
• 5.56mm Semi-Auto Pipe Rifle
• 5.56mm Auto Pipe Rifle
• .308 Bolt-Action Pipe Rifle
• .308 Semi-Auto Pipe Rifle
• .50 Bolt-Action Pipe Rifle

- Change Combat Rifle to use .308 Ammo by default and increase spawnrates/reduce cost of .308 ammo;

- Remove semi-auto receivers from Assault Rifle to make it full-auto only;

 

Phase Two - Additions

 

Phase Two is much more ambitious undertaking and involves adding entirely new weapons, with new models and textures, to fill in some gaps and add more variety. Most, but not all, of these weapon ideas come from the Fallout universe, particularly Fallout New Vegas. These include:

 

- Possibly adding a "Musket"-type, bottom-level tier for Pipe Rifles to populate extreme low tiers of levelled spawn lists. They would be single shot weapons that need to be reloaded after every shot. Realistically these should be the most common type of weapon in a world like Fallout, but I'm not sure how much this actually "adds" to the overall gaming experience.

- 40mm Grenade Launchers in the form of a basic single-shot Pipe version as well as Pump-Action(a la FNV)/Revolver-style semi-auto version. These would fill a niche for medium-weight explosive weapons to bridge the gap between thrown grenades and the Missile Launcher.

- The following weapons from FO1/FO2/FNV:

• .38 Police/Magnum Revolver
• .44 'Desert Eagle'-style Pistol
• .45 'Colt'-style Pistol
• .50 Anti-Material Rifle*
• 14mm/.50 Pistol**
• 10mm SMG***
• .45 Greasegun****
• Gauss Pistol

*The .50 Cal Anti-Material Rifle will replace .50 conversions of the Hunting Rifle, which will no longer be possible.

**In Fallout and Fallout 2, the SIG-Sauer was a popular pre-war 14mm pistol. For FNV they changed it to .50 as I guess they didn't want to have a whole ammo type for just one gun. I don't really want to do this either.

***The 10mm SMG will basically replace full-auto conversions of the 10mm Pistol.

****The .45 Greasegun will basically be identical in performance to the current Tommygun, but offer an aesthetic alternative.

 

Phase 3 - The Future! And other potential ideas.

 

All that said, there are some other ideas or alternatives to the above I'm considering. I'm thinking if I wanted to go "crazy realistic" then I could drastically "nerf" Pipe weapons by having only revolver and bolt-action receivers available for them. These are, afterall, much more primitive and easily manufactured. Modern semi-auto receivers and their spring-loaded magazines able to efficiently load cartridges into chambers at a rapid pace required quite advanced machining, something that drugged-out Raiders probably wouldn't be able to build. So it would be plausible to remove all semi-auto Pipe Rifles and Pistols, and have single-shot bolt-action and revolver weapons heavily dominate early levels of the game, with only the pre-war weapons being advanced enough for semi-auto and full-auto function. Levelled spawn lists would be changed to reflect this, with non-pipe weapons being much more rare.

 

And as mentioned above, Musket-style Pipe weapons could be the very bottom level of this system. They would load only one bullet at a time and thus have the lowest sustained damage output of all weapons.

 

Other ideas concern adding new ammo types into the world, such as 9mm, which would add some new options for Beretta and Luger-style pistols and H&K-style SMGs.

 

One last idea I had was to remove the damage nerfs for full-auto weapons, and instead have full-auto receivers have much greater recoil/less accuracy. I get why Bethesda decided to do it their way, but I'd prefer full-auto weapons do the same damage as single-shot counterparts, and use recoil and accuracy as the main balancing factor instead. This probably wouldn't apply to energy weapons as they operate in a completely different way.

 

So, thoughts? I mean, the first part is pretty easy to do, and involves only configuring GECK assets and attributes. The second part, involving new art assets and importing them into the game, are things I can probably do as I have 3d modelling and texturing experience (but the last time I tried to do such a thing was for Oblivion). There are also some details I need to iron out, like how far I should go in rebalancing Pipe weapons (ie whether or not semi and full-auto should be available), and whether I want to try and tackle a full-on weapon behavioural rebalance (full-auto damage amounts). So any feedback is appreciated.

[Valykry]

This is a mod I would be interested in. I always like a bit more realism in my weaponry.

Speaking of which, it would also be nice to modify the damage caused by headshots.

Unless the target is wearing power armor, a headshot with a .308, .44, or .45 should easily be an insta-kill, regardless of level.

I don't care how many pushups you can do, you can't survive without a brain.

And even in power armor, a .50 should completely devastate whatever skull it hits. (I'm assuming of course that it is the BMG .50 rounds rather than those used in a desert eagle. If we're talking the pistol variety of .50, then I suppose power armor could stop them.)

 

I am, of course, basing this primarily on humans, ghouls, and super mutants (Minus the behemoth of course).

Deathclaws and other similar creatures i can imagine having quite thick skulls.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Valykry

[demonocolips]

i am all for getting more weapons into the game especially if itll end the "all weapons are great" crap that bethesda rammed down our throats. if possible getting the classic fallout weapons pack http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/37002/? and the weapons added by Project nevada http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/40040/?.

 

im not convinced about removing rechambering of weapons it does make sense as you would need to change the magazine, reciever, stock,barrel and muzzle in order for it to work properly in essence creating an entirely new weapon. so pipe weapon crafting may be a good addition. just pipe weapons though unless you add a unique expensive crafting bench to make prewar weapons.

 

the only thing thats missing is energy weapons in the discussion will you be adjusting these as well or no?

[lest120]

realistically it is possible change out calibers and functionality, lore wise there are lack of energy weapons because brother hood sees the people unfit use them, ballistic weapons wise either were destroyed or stolen causing people make makeshift weapons. also guns become more available later in game as caravans from west to east north and south making them more available and also lore wise west and east coast had different technology level lore wise so west coast was more technologically advanced. so on so forth in short terms your idea of "realism' is every inaccurate.

Edited January 17, 2016 by lest120

[AgentNgo]

realistically it is possible change out calibers and functionality, lore wise there are lack of energy weapons because brother hood sees the people unfit use them, ballistic weapons wise either were destroyed or stolen causing people make makeshift weapons. also guns become more available later in game as caravans from west to east north and south making them more available and also lore wise west and east coast had different technology level lore wise so west coast was more technologically advanced. so on so forth in short terms your idea of "realism' is every inaccurate.

Hey y'know when people ask for realism, they are actively wanting to deviate from lore. Sometime people prefer that. My paladin Danske was once buzz lightyear for Pete sake.

[lest120]

 

realistically it is possible change out calibers and functionality, lore wise there are lack of energy weapons because brother hood sees the people unfit use them, ballistic weapons wise either were destroyed or stolen causing people make makeshift weapons. also guns become more available later in game as caravans from west to east north and south making them more available and also lore wise west and east coast had different technology level lore wise so west coast was more technologically advanced. so on so forth in short terms your idea of "realism' is every inaccurate.

Hey y'know when people ask for realism, they are actively wanting to deviate from lore. Sometime people prefer that. My paladin Danske was once buzz lightyear for Pete sake.

 

oh no its the weapon anatomy specialist who cant tell difference from ballistic and gore overhaul.

[HazaRd777]

I don't know if you're going for a more realism approach (I'm assuming you are) or not, but I'd be careful on a few of those points.

 

First, don't touch ammo conversions. These can actually be easy to do IRL with a basic understanding on firearm functionality and simple metalworking knowledge. The only thing that really has to change is the bolt and barrel (and magazine if the gun requires one), and if you have access and know how to use machining equipment, you could probably make these things. Now SOME don't make sense, for instance I doubt the receiver of the hunting rifle could handle the pressure generated from firing a .50 BMG cartridge. Judging by the gun's size not much recoil would be absorbed by it either making it unpleasant for the shooter. Being able to swap .45 for .38 on the combat rifle though? No issue there. With what you're suggesting there would be ten different types of pipe rifles each with its own cartridge and no ability to modify to fire another (assuming you have the proper knowledge/perks to do so), which IRL doesn't make sense.

 

Second, just remember that there isn't much difference between semi-auto and full-auto design-wise. Again these can actually be easy to do IRL with a basic understanding on firearm functionality and simple metalworking knowledge. Guns like Pipe Rifles / Pistols can actually be easier to do then some weapons since they are much larger and probably basic in design and don't have to worry about small, compact parts. If a gun can fire in semi-auto, full auto should only require a different type of trigger as long as the receiver can handle the pressure. Even the 10mm pistol would be easier since it is a full sized handgun.

 

Last, there really isn't any such thing as "pistol" and "rifle" ammo. It's all just ammo. Plenty of rifles IRL shoot "pistol" cartridges and plenty of handguns shoot "rifle" cartridges. Take an M1 Carbine for instance. It is designed to shoot .30 Carbine ammunition, which is a pistol cartridge technically, yet it's most commonly used in a rifle. It's really more of a difference between high-powered and regular cartridges yet where the line is drawn is always debatable. Now any handgun that shoots .50 BMG is ridiculous. The submachine gun and the combat rifle shooting .45 ACP, not at all ridiculous. I will say though that the combat rifle looks like it's chambered for a larger round like 5.56 and would suggest that cartridge as the standard round for it. Then make the assault rifle chambered for .308 since it's size suggests it's more of an LMG than an assault rifle.

[lest120]

I don't know if you're going for a more realism approach (I'm assuming you are) or not, but I'd be careful on a few of those points.

 

First, don't touch ammo conversions. These can actually be easy to do IRL with a basic understanding on firearm functionality and simple metalworking knowledge. The only thing that really has to change is the bolt and barrel (and magazine if the gun requires one), and if you have access and know how to use machining equipment, you could probably make these things. Now SOME don't make sense, for instance I doubt the receiver of the hunting rifle could handle the pressure generated from firing a .50 BMG cartridge. Judging by the gun's size not much recoil would be absorbed by it either making it unpleasant for the shooter. Being able to swap .45 for .38 on the combat rifle though? No issue there. With what you're suggesting there would be ten different types of pipe rifles each with its own cartridge and no ability to modify to fire another (assuming you have the proper knowledge/perks to do so), which IRL doesn't make sense.

 

Second, just remember that there isn't much difference between semi-auto and full-auto design-wise. Again these can actually be easy to do IRL with a basic understanding on firearm functionality and simple metalworking knowledge. Guns like Pipe Rifles / Pistols can actually be easier to do then some weapons since they are much larger and probably basic in design and don't have to worry about small, compact parts. If a gun can fire in semi-auto, full auto should only require a different type of trigger as long as the receiver can handle the pressure. Even the 10mm pistol would be easier since it is a full sized handgun.

 

Last, there really isn't any such thing as "pistol" and "rifle" ammo. It's all just ammo. Plenty of rifles IRL shoot "pistol" cartridges and plenty of handguns shoot "rifle" cartridges. Take an M1 Carbine for instance. It is designed to shoot .30 Carbine ammunition, which is a pistol cartridge technically, yet it's most commonly used in a rifle. It's really more of a difference between high-powered and regular cartridges yet where the line is drawn is always debatable. Now any handgun that shoots .50 BMG is ridiculous. The submachine gun and the combat rifle shooting .45 ACP, not at all ridiculous. I will say though that the combat rifle looks like it's chambered for a larger round like 5.56 and would suggest that cartridge as the standard round for it. Then make the assault rifle chambered for .308 since it's size suggests it's more of an LMG than an assault rifle.

ty so much som1 who actually understands tho for 50 cal handgun there are some exist but obviously experimental.

[HazaRd777]

 

ty so much som1 who actually understands tho for 50 cal handgun there are some exist but obviously experimental.

 

Yeah experimental is definitely the keyword in that sentence. Unless you have some kind of brace, I can't see a .50 handgun doing anything besides dislocating your shoulder. I get what you're saying though. Also I'm assuming that when the game says .50 they mean .50 BMG not .50 AE. If it does that kinda changes things.

Edited January 18, 2016 by HazaRd777

[lest120]

 

 

ty so much som1 who actually understands tho for 50 cal handgun there are some exist but obviously experimental.

 

Yeah experimental is definitely the keyword in that sentence. Unless you have some kind of brace, I can't see a .50 handgun doing anything besides dislocating your shoulder. I get what you're saying though. Also I'm assuming that when the game says .50 they mean .50 BMG not .50 AE. If it does that kinda changes things.

 

i was meaning more along the lines as there is real life 50 bmg handgun