Am I missing something here? Trying MW and it doesn't seem great.

[jayp9]

So I've started playing Morrowind because I have heard it described as a legendary game. I have played Oblivion and Skyrim to death.

 

And I've done some starting quests, started the main questline by seeing that naked guy, and done some Mage's guild quests...and it doesn't seem too great.

 

Am I missing something here or are the quests similar to Skyrim and Oblivion, revolving mainly around fetching things or clearing a dungeon? There also doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choice..and exploring the countryside doesn't seem that big of a deal.

 

So does the game take a massive change for the better later on or am I just missing something because I cannot see what the hype was about? I went into the game expecting great things just due to all the praise, and greatly want to enjoy the game since I've juiced Skyrim and Oblivion for things to do.

[kittybrod]

That is probably mainly because you are going from two more recent games to a much older game. I personally started the Elder Scrolls world with Morrowind (I did play Arena somewhat, but never really got into it) and I love it and would love to go back and play it and hopefully will.

 

I believe one of the biggest reasons why it was considered such a great game and still is praised is because as far as I know, it was one of the easiest games to mod up to that point (and judging from OB and SK construction kits, probably still is, but that might be because I spent a heck of a lot of time in the MW CS modding and not nearly as much in the other two)

 

Another big reason is that up to that point, many of the great games were also pretty much linear. Go here, pick up this, explore here, do this. Morrowind you were able to skip the main quest completely, go off exploring and maybe someday get back to the main quest. Maybe not. Yeah, there were other games where you could do something like that, but most of those, even if you could 'explore' you still ran the chance of either breaking the game by meeting someone too early, or killing the wrong person etc... or you couldn't do anything until you advanced the main quest. Many of the games previous you could explore the immediate surroundings, but you still had to advance the main quest to get out of those areas.

 

Plus, at the time it seemed huge. Might still seem huge. All this area to explore, new creatures to kill, people who had interesting things to say (at least the first couple of times). All of that combined into Morrowind.

 

HOwever, as I said at the beginning, it is usually not a good idea with any game series to go from later games to earlier games and expect them to live up to the praise. Morrowind is great and I still love it, but there are things in OB (Horse Riding) that Morrowind didn't have (out of the box, look up Pegas Horse Ranch) and most games are like this. And again, one of the great things about morrowind was the versatility of Mods. Wanted horses? Get Pegas Horse Ranch. Want more housing, it was there, wanted to decorate your house? Yep, there was a mod that allowed you to buy furniture and place it where you wanted, alternative starts? out there, completely new quest lines with completely new items and new monsters etc... it was all there (not sure how much is still out there as a lot of the sites I remember seem to be gone now)

 

I would say give MOrrowind a Chance and see what you would like to improve, then go looking for it. Chances are, there are mods out there for it (including needing to eat and sleep)

 

Edit: Also want to say this as a MOrrowind player who only recently got into OB and SK. I have come to like both the later games, but to me they lack something MW has a lot of: Diversity. There were TONS of clutter to collect (warmed my pack rattish little heart), variations on said clutter (I miss napkins). Different styles of furniture, different styles of building and NOT just retextures of the same meshes. While in the original MW there wasn't much in the way of landscape diversity (I remember green and ash) Bloodmoon added Snow, Tribunal added a different architectural style and yet even more clutter.

 

OB and SK have better graphics, no doubt about that, but to me they cut down somewhat (SK is a bit better than OB about this) on what made Morrowind so interesting. When I went into a cave or dungeon in MW, I don't remember thinking 'well here goes, lets see I go left here, right there' even if I had never been in that cave. OB I got that a LOT, not only with layouts but also architecture and textures (morrowind had how many different cave sets?) SK doesn't have that quite as much as OB, and with SK if you drop me in a specific city, I might (especially with a bit more play through) be able to tell you the names, but Morrowind it was to the point you dropped me somewhere on that island and I would be able to tell you which city I was in and which way to go to get back to Balmora. Not only did I play it that much, but the cities were just designed that much more unique, even with similar architecture.

Edited January 3, 2016 by kittybrod

[Tchos]

And from the opposite side, I'm someone who started with a later game in the series and played Morrowind later, and enjoyed it more. The reason for me is that there's more to the older games. They removed things in each game in the series. As you go backward, the world is bigger, there are more factions you can join, more quests, more abilities, more spells (like flying and teleportation), more stuff you can do in general. If you don't like those sorts of things and don't care if the older games have more of what you like, then no, you're not going to get anything out of the experience.

[kittybrod]

And from the opposite side, I'm someone who started with a later game in the series and played Morrowind later, and enjoyed it more. The reason for me is that there's more to the older games. They removed things in each game in the series. As you go backward, the world is bigger, there are more factions you can join, more quests, more abilities, more spells (like flying and teleportation), more stuff you can do in general. If you don't like those sorts of things and don't care if the older games have more of what you like, then no, you're not going to get anything out of the experience.

That was really my biggest complaint with OB and SK

 

I hadn't played MW in years, and so I finally broke down and got OB. I opened it up, played a bit, and thought "Morrowind Lite" Everything just seemed *less*. Sure the graphics are better (while technically the graphics in Skyrim are better than OB, I feel that OB has the best because they have actual COLOR instead of just shades with the occasional 'Look what is that weird thing in the middle of all that monochrome? Oh, it is simply a different color'), but everything else was less.

 

Most of the factions really seem somewhat interchangeable, while I disliked that you could only join one house (join all houses for the win :D), it made it more immersive and realistic in that way. What you chose influenced your game.

 

I was thinking on this when I played OB (don't really remember whether it was a lot like this in MW) that the mages guild and fighters guild were interchangeable. You didn't need any magical skill to do the Mages Guild, and a Mage could easily join the Fighters guild no problem. (except for the problem of singeing your allies). The quests themselves were different, but the delivery wasn't really different (go here, find X, Fetch Y, Kill Z People). I think it was somewhat like this in MW, but can't quite recall.

 

The characters were more immersive as well. While I can'tremember their names now (it has been something like 10 years since I played, and names were never my strong point) I remember really liking several of the characters in MW and other than similar names, there were a LOT of distinctive personalities. (Crassius Curio anyone? think that is his first name, get his name mixed up with the Blades guy). OB, to me the main saving grace was Martin. I really liked him (got to liking the Vampire Dark Brotherhood guy and Lucien as well, I think either I have the kiss of death or I have terrible taste in guys...) and the Fighter's guild Dark Elf. The rest didn't truly stand out as having any true personality. They might have had unique dialogue, but not really personalities as their dialogue tended to be too brief. Skyrim goes even further. There are few truly unique characters in personality. Most of the Jarls have the same 'vibe' to me as do many of the followers. The few people who DO tend to give off unique vibes I tend to want to *ahem* remove from the game with a good fireball.

 

I already mentioned the architecture and the sheer number of items to collect, all this WITHOUT mods, but I just want to reiterate: I MISS NAPKINS. (and all the other clutter)

[Tchos]

One thing I didn't like about the Great Houses in Morrowind is that most people encounter House Hlaalu first since it's headquartered in the first big town you get to, and so I expect more people joined that one even though it was the rogue/thief-themed house, without getting to know the wizard-themed and warrior-themed houses first.

 

I think you're right that Oblivion was the first one to drop all requirements for joining the guilds, whereas Daggerfall and Morrowind required that you have certain levels of proficiencies in the relevant skills in order to join, and in those games it was harder to do, since there were so many more skills to build up compared to the later ones! Plus, your advancement in the guilds was capped at a certain level if you didn't keep working on those skills, as the requirements for promotion were higher (at least in Daggerfall -- I don't recall if that was the case in Morrowind).

 

Now, while the quests were definitely themed and flavoured differently in the different guilds in Daggerfall and Morrowind, I must defend Oblivion's guild questlines. Regardless of the quest mechanics, each guild's quests started simple but built into well-developed story arcs that were very distinct from each other, and were more interesting and compelling than the main quest, in some cases.

 

At any rate, I did want to show that it's quite possible for someone (like me) to start from the later games and go backward to the earlier games, and enjoy them, though I must admit it took a lot of convincing for me to try them in the first place.

[kittybrod]

One thing I didn't like about the Great Houses in Morrowind is that most people encounter House Hlaalu first since it's headquartered in the first big town you get to, and so I expect more people joined that one even though it was the rogue/thief-themed house, without getting to know the wizard-themed and warrior-themed houses first.

 

I think you're right that Oblivion was the first one to drop all requirements for joining the guilds, whereas Daggerfall and Morrowind required that you have certain levels of proficiencies in the relevant skills in order to join, and in those games it was harder to do, since there were so many more skills to build up compared to the later ones! Plus, your advancement in the guilds was capped at a certain level if you didn't keep working on those skills, as the requirements for promotion were higher (at least in Daggerfall -- I don't recall if that was the case in Morrowind).

 

Now, while the quests were definitely themed and flavoured differently in the different guilds in Daggerfall and Morrowind, I must defend Oblivion's guild questlines. Regardless of the quest mechanics, each guild's quests started simple but built into well-developed story arcs that were very distinct from each other, and were more interesting and compelling than the main quest, in some cases.

 

At any rate, I did want to show that it's quite possible for someone (like me) to start from the later games and go backward to the earlier games, and enjoy them, though I must admit it took a lot of convincing for me to try them in the first place.

Yeah OBs guild quests were nice, I just want something more themed to each guild, and with restrictions in place so that the Archmage of Cyrodil, who has never touched a weapon before in his life, cannot just waltz into the Fighters guild and become Guildmaster of it, all STILL without touching a weapon in his life. (and same thing in reverse, some fighter who wouldn't know a fireball from a summon atronach spell can't just become the Archmage) I would have liked to have seen quests where you HAD to use spells or melee weapons (or ranged) and you could still join all the guilds. Sort of like the thieves guild. In those you almost HAD to use thief skills because of some of their quests. I would have liked to have seen that principle expanded upon and enlarged for all the guilds.

 

As for house Hlaalu... speaking as a proud supporter and head whatever of House Hlaalu... I can't really see what the problem is. We are the greatest house, so why shouldn't we be introduced first? (just kidding :D I was always drawn to Hlaalu, mainly because not only am I rather greedy, but I the other house leaders rubbed me the wrong way with their personalities)

 

Yeah, I have always been able to somewhat go back to earlier games and enjoy them, I think mainly because my first games were games like Ultima Underworld and Arena.

 

To me, the storyline and game play itself is more important than graphics. Morrowind had the storyline and gameplay in spades. I am not saying that OB and SK don't have that either, I just feel the developers sacrificed some of it in order to focus on graphics and the 'bells and whistles'. There are many games I still play when I can (getting harder and harder to play some of them, Had to give up Betrayal in Antara, and I think one of the Warlords games because they simply wouldn't work past the OS they were designed for, I liked BiA too) no matter the age or graphics. I STILL get shivers thinking about going through Ultima Underworld and one spot where spiders were likely to jump out at you. Even though compared to the recent games, the graphics in that are very primitive.

[Tchos]

I agree. Losing the restrictions is what caused the problem, making it so that you can shoot up through the ranks and become leader of the guild in no time at all even with no relevant skills, whereas in Daggerfall (and probably Morrowind) more time has to pass until your skills are higher, and in Daggerfall you never take over the guilds. You reach a certain rank, and then there's no further advancement, but your rank entitles you to more and more services and perks, as well as more advanced quests as you're promoted. It also prevents the whole "every character can do everything" concept, since you'd need to level up a lot of skills to reach high ranks in all of the guilds, which would take quite a while.

 

I suppose you're right that it's no problem that House Hlaalu gets more members, since the isolation and difficulty of joining House Telvanni ensures that it's comprised of only the most powerful and ambitious elite. ;)

 

For Betrayal in Antara, have you tried the GOG version (in the Krondor pack)? It says they made it work on modern OSes.

[kittybrod]

I dont' really mind every character can do everything, I just don't want it to be that every character just getting off the boat (or out of prison or escaping from a dragon) can do everything right from the start. Since there really isn't 'time' in the games in the sense characters don't grow old and die (for which i am VERY grateful) it is conceivable that one character, given enough time, COULD do everything ,especially with the whole 'use skill to level up' concept. But, yes, restrictions in skill levels would make things a whole lot more immersive. I noticed Skyrim had a couple of level restricted quests, or at least quests it was best to do at certain levels. Things like that go a long way for me. I remember some games where if a character tried to leave an area before they were high enoug hfor the next area they were told to turn back, some of them actually let you go through, but you were warned that you might have bitten off more than you could chew.

 

Telvanni would have been my second choice (I normally play as a mage anyways, though I think in Morrowind I played as an archer more) except I didn't like some of the muckity mucks. Others I liked, but not the rest. Plus, I could never join Telvanni (without the join all houses mod) simply because every single time I went into one of their houses, I got lost. EVERY SINGLE TIME. I guess I am just not meant to live in a giant mushroom. Redoran always struck a bit too close to the whole paladin type mentality that I never could embrace (I play good characters who aren't afraid to bend the rules if need be)

 

Thanks for that link, though it seems as if BiA is broken on the disk and hasn't been fixed since the game was released. I will have to remember that site if I ever get an urge to play some of the older games (going down the 'other games people have bought' were planescape torment, Icewind Dale II, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights... *glances as stacks of game disks, and picks out names*)

[Tchos]

Right, I'm not opposed to letting you do everything eventually, and skill requirements take care of that by making you focus on one faction at a time if you want to rise in rank quickly, or else make it all happen slowly if you want to spread yourself out. Then again, in Daggerfall you have faction reputation to manage as well, since doing quests or gaining rank with a particular faction may make you hated by the other ones you wanted to join, such that they won't even speak to you to let you do the non-members' quests to get liked enough for them to let you join them. There was some amount of that in Morrowind as well, as I recall I was not well-liked by members of House Telvanni until I started rising in rank with them.

 

I got used to the mushroom buildings, but it helps that you can drop items anywhere, letting you mark places where you want to go or where you've been. Or, if you come up with some kind of symbology, you can decide that a certain combination of clutter near a door means you'll find commonly-needed things there. I tended to use a lot of lamps to light up the places that were usually too dark, too.

 

I can think of a game like you mention, that warns players if they go into a tough area. Did you ever play Sacred? The main character makes comments when you cross the borders between zones, either that the area seems easy or that it'll be tough.

 

I actually own a copy of that Betrayal at Krondor pack with Antara included, but it's part of my backlog that I haven't tried playing yet, along with Ultima Underworld that you mentioned before. I could check to see if it runs. That list of "games other people who bought this bought" might as well be "Games Tchos has bought." ;)

[kittybrod]

Yeah, Morrowind has that, though I do somewhat like that you can 'overcome' that if you do enough quests. There are some factions that it does make sense for you to never be able to join both of them, but I like where you can join the majority of factions. Even if it is rather difficult to do so.

 

Drop stuff? *twitches* Leave stuff behind? *twitches more*

 

Sacred? Role playing 3rd person game with buyable horses? different starts for different character classes? If so, I think I got the gold version at the same time I got Two Worlds.

 

I am not sure I own a copy of Betrayal at Krondor. Have the Strategy guide for it (my brother had the game and strategy guide, and I LOVED the guides format so even though I didn't have the game, I bought the guide just for that). Should have Betrayal at Antara running around somewhere, but can't remember whether it is on CDs or not. Think it is.

 

For the BiA they say that there is a problem with a temple in like chapter 2 and after chapter 4 the game is completely unplayable. I think something about some files that were misplaced (I think someone said the game uses the same files in different places, and GoG didn't take that into account, or something on that order)

 

I know exactly what you mean, what amused me was that list should have been titled "Games Catherine has bought and played, several times"