jeffglobal Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) [Edit] I think it has to do that my authoring software is 8 or 16bit color space and the game is 4-8 bit with some weird half ass implementation of PBR albedo metallic roughness. Here is the data: Input:Diffuse, Roughness, Metallic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2fehedqxcw7315/basecolor.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pt79cg0qwrofm0/Roughness.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/4z2cxfzyocimja4/Metallic.jpg?dl=0 untouched game files, cubemap and material file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttdhhy9ve42fb8b/mipblur_InstInterior.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/jenlw9a0u20yfn5/Material%20file.jpg?dl=0 What I got and what I should have gotten: WTF!? So I do this now in my mind, cause screw suffering for my art:https://www.dropbox.com/s/of7617kigcqqnar/avatar2.jpg?dl=0 Edited January 20, 2016 by jeffglobal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffglobal Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) It's a software issue with Substance Painter, I learned today. The lighting gets baked into the 2d maps, so where it's in a shadow, it stupidly renders that to the 2d map. I'm awaiting an answer from Allegorithmic, and/or I'm learning ZBrush now, and f' it. I have to check if Substance Designer does that to the maps, and I'm learning the material workflow to 3ds max to see if I can use SD and 3ds to apply multiple textures to a model with many material ids which SP can't render to one map, and have it render to one diffuse/specular map... [Edit] Nope, that only happens with baked lighting, and I didn't use that, verified in 3ds max. oh boy, idk now. Edited January 23, 2016 by jeffglobal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogtoothCG Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hey dude, 1. Your normals are inverted, substance needs them swizzled to the correct orientation for display and modification purposes.2. Copying and normalizing the normal map to generate the blue channel, and merging that with some work with SP's curvature map, you can make a rather ghetto, but functional AO for input in SP.3. You'll want to use the PBR Spec/gloss shader available on Substance Share, F4 is PBR, but not rough/metal workflow. Thats the root of your problem right there. Rough and gloss are very similar, but the values are inverted, thats why your semi-matte black portion is super shiny, and the metal on the mouth is matte. You can convert Metal to Spec, but I'd recommend creating new input maps, inverting your normals, and starting over with the correct shader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffglobal Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Hey dude, 1. Your normals are inverted, substance needs them swizzled to the correct orientation for display and modification purposes.2. Copying and normalizing the normal map to generate the blue channel, and merging that with some work with SP's curvature map, you can make a rather ghetto, but functional AO for input in SP.3. You'll want to use the PBR Spec/gloss shader available on Substance Share, F4 is PBR, but not rough/metal workflow. Thats the root of your problem right there. Rough and gloss are very similar, but the values are inverted, thats why your semi-matte black portion is super shiny, and the metal on the mouth is matte. You can convert Metal to Spec, but I'd recommend creating new input maps, inverting your normals, and starting over with the correct shader. Oh crap, tyvm. [sorry about the delay in response, I find forums IMPOSSIBLE to navigate and keep track of even my own threads/responses.] What I've been doing for the normal maps is going into Photoshop, inverting the map, making a tga (or using foam), then going to Substance Designer, converting the FO4 normal to a normal z with a weird node that converts the red and green to values for blue. Then taking that tga and using it for the normal in Substance Painter. From the newly Z'd normal, I bake all the maps but Color ID and thickness in SP. The generators seem to work ok. It would be really fk'd up, if you're right about spec/gloss instead of rough/metallic, cause I've been on the substance forums and they didn't think anything wrong of that. Will try. If my silly Synth Helmet looks right, changing to spec/gloss, holy cow. Just to verify then, in the red/green channel of the FO4 specular map: green is gloss, red specular? I made green roughness, red metallic...either way, there's only two choices, I'll try both...strangley, my "not UN Helmet," I started to be able to get the effects I wanted... Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogtoothCG Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 You can just invert the extracted normal maps, if they're coming out green. The normal maps themselves are pretty standard, with no info in the blue channel, and a swizzled green channel. As far as _s setup goes, its specular in the green, and gloss in the red. Using the spec/gloss shader found here https://share.allegorithmic.com/libraries/15 you can get a very good approximation of how it will look ingame. You can, rather easily, convert from m/r to s/g, but if you have the source files still, it would be easiest to just redo it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffglobal Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) You can just invert the extracted normal maps, if they're coming out green. The normal maps themselves are pretty standard, with no info in the blue channel, and a swizzled green channel. As far as _s setup goes, its specular in the green, and gloss in the red. Using the spec/gloss shader found here https://share.allegorithmic.com/libraries/15 you can get a very good approximation of how it will look ingame. You can, rather easily, convert from m/r to s/g, but if you have the source files still, it would be easiest to just redo it correctly. Well this is what I got in game: This is what it looked like in SP: Holy crap! Other than it looks like poop, that is as dead on as I think it can be. All I did was replace the channels with spec/gloss. I couldn't get the shader to show up on the shelf even though I stuck it in the f'ing shelf folder in the shader folder in the program file directory...maybe I have to make a shelf folder in my documents? Idts, cause I've shoved tons of other stuff that shows up in other folders like generators and alphas... "C:\Program Files\Allegorithmic\Substance Painter 1.7\resources\shelf\allegorithmic\shaders"NO!? Working in spec/gloss is fk'ing ugly as hell, or I don't understand spec, cause it want's me to pick a color, a COLOR for reflections? how about grey 128 mofo! "Metals have no diffuse color, deriving all there color from the specular." Nuts. It really would suck to have to learn all that. Either way I'm gonna try exporting the PBR one with setting for spec/gloss export options and then see how it comes out. [Edit]Either I can't make the settings change, or SP will not convert metal/rough to spec/gloss. FK. I did put the spec/metallic in the green and gloss/rough in the red...only cause I remembered gloss and rough have identical definitions (microsurface gloss directly affects the apparent brightness of reflections). Ty, Idt I would have tried spec/gloss for a few months after I would have been forced to verify all assumptions... Edited January 28, 2016 by jeffglobal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogtoothCG Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 You'll want to place the shader in documents/substancepainter/allegorithmic/shelf/shaders for it to show up. Your spec is going to be predominantly grey, unless your material legitimately has a colored specular, IE, gold is brown in diffuse, yellow in spec. However, Fallout: 4 does not support colored specular, but the specular color can be set per element in nifskope. So if you want to make something with lots of complex materials, remember to separate the model pieces. Also, keep in mind that PBR references luminance values, spec/gloss can get very similar results to metal/rough with work. Look up material examples from scans if you get lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffglobal Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Well, what I'm gonna do is just work in PBR metal/rough and export with my JeffSpec/Gloss in SP, since it produced results that were reasonable, pretty much the same as going WTF in spec/gloss workflow and then rendering the maps. Even though SP produces colored speculars I just remapped my output specular map for greyscale and removed the alpha (alphas in speculars, no kidding, wtf). I can even preview through putting the files in the correct shelf directory...I had the folder as last modified or whatever so I only looked in the Allegorithmic folder in docs and didn't even see a SP folder. Found the folder when I realized it and did a search for completeness and found the substance folder in the docs directory. We all can get Unity and Unreal engines for free to test out our work, so losing out on PBR workflow at this point in my life cycle (1.5 months in) seems inefficient. When you say break up the model pieces, I did that once with Material IDs in 3ds Max, and it split the texture map (sic) for each id. So I had perfect control, but then, after a few hours of happiness, I noticed it didn't export them to the same map, even though, they were using different parts of the SAME uvwmap. Then I went on the forums and they explained to turn off that weird halo (something padding) making function, go into Substance Designer, use a special node they created after you color code you texture map, and then feed all the separate maps thru that node and it would remap them all on one map. Oh crap! no. I'd consider slogging thru that one day, but it ain't today. My workaround was to use the polygon selection tool to select what I wanted to texture, and that gave the sharp lines I wanted to get by material id'ing prior. Idt we can save selection sets like that though, or at least I haven't found it yet. That type of masking seems to be a workaround within SP. Now Nifskopiness breaking into separate BSTrishapes is still a little iffy with me, for example, yesterday I couldn't get my arrow thru my head in game, it gave a weird error that made my toon look like Friar Tuk, bald to the ears. Today, I load up the game to see the difference between exporting with the FBR textures to spec/gloss, instead of spec/gloss shader to spec/gloss output and I get this: Now, I noticed the textures are horizontally mirrored, but wtf happened since yesterday? I have NO clue why it worked today. I can't remember doing anything to the nif...so my NifSkopiness level is really low... So I followed the advice of another thread and only added back my modified mesh for the helmet with the arrow thru it and I got this effect, idt anyone can do this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8bch6lisirjn2ii/Fallout4%202016-01-29%2016-04-35-45.avi?dl=0 Well, I must have missed a reference or something in the nif, idts... uh oh, wait I think I see it...nope, my nif and the reference nif are identical except for the number assigned to the trishape, which I changed the shader and bone references to...nuts. Edited January 29, 2016 by jeffglobal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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