Lord J Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I prefer the new system. While I don't care either way in regards to attributes the whole removal of the "Major Skills" and "Minor Skills" is a great plus in my eyes. In Oblivion you could "screw up" your character by choosing the wrong skills and leveling them. For instance, if you chose non-combat skills as your major skills and you leveled them up, the enemies would also level with you but because you haven't leveled any combat skills, you'd be screwed in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasdon Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I agree with Lord J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odai Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I prefer the new system. While I don't care either way in regards to attributes the whole removal of the "Major Skills" and "Minor Skills" is a great plus in my eyes. In Oblivion you could "screw up" your character by choosing the wrong skills and leveling them. For instance, if you chose non-combat skills as your major skills and you leveled them up, the enemies would also level with you but because you haven't leveled any combat skills, you'd be screwed in combat. Or you could reverse that thought and make the major skills be things you dont want to use and be a master in everything at level 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowk Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 This is probably what encourages me most about the new system: it's much harder to make a weak or useless character without doing it on purpose. For fun, I might try to RP a play through as a classic bard: nothing but Speech! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcrin Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The thing about this is that is will kill the distinction between different characters. So what? Why should there be distinctions between different characters at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormguy85 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Basically they made it harder to min/max the game, but improved the overall leveling function and skill ability. What I'm more curious about is the scaling of damage, and the "endgame" Obviously the best way to min/max in the new system is to avoid using any skills you don't absolutely need to. For example: if you are a bow user you'll want to focus most of your leveling up to come from your bow skill, so your damage scales more rapidly. Once you reach 100 bow skill, you can focus on fleshing out the rest of your character. The real question I have, is how important is this? Someone basically asked this earlier in the thread but the discussion went a different direction. If I spread out my abilities too much can I make things very difficult for myself? This is not necessarily a bad thing... I don't mind min/maxing as long as the system is intuitive. So then the next question I have is how will the endgame be handled? Obviously power-leveling your bow skill early on will make levels 1-15 easier for you (as your damage will be higher then someone who spreads). But, assuming you max out the same exact skills as someone who spreads their points, you'll both reach identical stats at some point (i.e. you both max Bow, Stealth, Light Armor, etc... at level ~40 or whatever), how will you be able to scale things later in the game with enchantments and buffs? I'm assuming all skills are base capped at 100, but can be enhanced to a potentially infinite level (unlike Oblivion). So ideally you'll want to stack as much Bowskill gear as possible on your endgame character to maximize your bow damage (since Agility/Luck etc... don't exist anymore, and that is the only way to scale your damage beyond perks and the quality of your weapon). If the game is balanced for a character that puts about 1/3rd of their overall leveling into their primary damage source, and then lets you scale your damage exponentially with gear, I think the system will work perfectly fine. That leaves the ability to min/max for everyone who likes that sort of thing (I can't help myself, I have to play RPGs that way...) but really allows you to reach a plateau at higher levels as you really flesh your guy out completely. I'm still curious how much they will make stamina scale though. My goal is to be able to move fast for very long periods of time by the time I reach the endgame... we shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odai Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 @ Stormguy Actually, I dont think powerleveling will hold much effect at all. The new radiant story system seems to interpret the skills you choose to use and bases enemies to those particular things. If you power level your bow, the game might choose enemies that are hard to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Marksman Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 @ Stormguy Actually, I dont think powerleveling will hold much effect at all. The new radiant story system seems to interpret the skills you choose to use and bases enemies to those particular things. If you power level your bow, the game might choose enemies that are hard to shoot. Or enemies with shields and heavy armor, or skeletons. I hate shooting skeletons. But then again, the old Oblivion system of attribute points based on your skill usage was a bit too RPG, and you could have some characters dynamically higher in total Attribute points. This is a streamline (similar to the DA -> DA2 system) that makes it a lot more equalizing. The perk system is nice because you choose what you need and get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odai Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 For me it was Mountain Lions... too fast and the bows were too weak. Again... I really dont think its all that streamlined. Its more organized. But they havent removed anything... they just moved it. Personally it seems to me that there are in fact MORE skills and numbers than previous games. Definitely more than Morrowind. But now they simply removed the middle man and make you choose your upgrades directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El`derina Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) I can't read all those pages in this thread.. i really cant... i read something like 5 pages i think....Anyways, Out of what I did read- I was amazed that no one brought this up.Yes, Skyrim will be fun, it will be great.... the new system will have its ups and downs BOTH. So between Oblivions system and Skyrims system? I would choose neither....why? well, to start, Skyrims 'perks' would be better served working together will attributes, not replacing them. that includes spells and abilities also, they work better in conjunction with attributes.*Shield Bash scaled knockback with strength*Force Push dragon shout has less recoil with higher endurance*Storm dragon shout lasts longer with willpower*Special animated Killing blows triggered more with higher agilityAnd these are but a few examples of the missed opportunity!!It puts more emphasis on being able to DO things better for BEING better... Now why would I preach yes to Stats, yet no to oblivion's stats?Obviously... Bethesda was right that stats were flawed and the system needed to be made new.It's my honest opinion that they are idiots for not realizing(or simply ignoring) that stats in oblivion were not the problem, it was how they choose to poorly implement those stats and used the horrible system they did.... how can you make a poor system based off the capabilties(attributes) of a human and then blame the existance of those attributes for how poorly it was done? Simply put, the system was flawed, not the existance of the attributes,... getting rid of them solved... nothing- except prove that they were capable of making a system that makes no sense as far as measuring a persons physical and mental cabilities, but we already found that out with all other TES games! So it doesn't quite surprise me with Skyrim either...*If intelligence was just a trickle down effect to magicka, The intelligence Overhaul mod speaks volumes of what could have been done there.*-Above works for other attributes-*if grinding was such a huge annoyance, athletics and acrobatics could have just as easily been removed from Oblivion, stat modifers could be removed, and increasing stats could be down more similiar to Galsiah's Character Development (GCD) mod, where stats increased based on related skill use passively(and still somewhat on non-related skill use.) there IS no level up screen in his system.Again, these are but a few examples.... the system was flawed, not the use of attributes. My conclusion? Bethesda may have done a better job on character development this time around... but they still doing a shitty job on it. Implementation is everything here and it just isn't being done right, So i'll lean on the side of moaning and groaning over the loss of attributes, but not for the older games sakes.Of course, these are just words and for some of you to understand my full meaning, you'd have to actually see what i mean by done right. I tried to provide examples where I could. EDIT: I thought of this a while back... attributes dont even HAVE to be something measured by a number(skills shouldn't be represented by a meaningless number either, but we'd be pretty lost if that was the case)What I mean is- do i need to know my strength is 99? attributes can be hidden and visuals like increased muscle size, or height can represent a change in attributes,... of course the standard increase in damage/health and whatnot can be made- but at smaller amounts to offset having less control here and making the effect of being weak on an attribute less punishing.just an example of how this could have been better implemented... Edited October 9, 2011 by El`derina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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