brokenergy Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 No that's not what I meant. I'm really concerned that people place stats so highly on their list when it comes to RPG. But that's off topic... I like the new system, the old system is another redundant system that should be cast out, along with Iso-camera and non-voiced protagonists. Seriously, how could you increase intelligence and willpower by casting spells? Does intelligence even have a number? I like the issue of perks and I would go further as to completely remove level ups and replace them with a system of perks and trainers, a cross between Risen, The Sims (bare with me) and FO3. When you have enough experience, you ask a trainer to teach you or read a book (or other tasks) or obtain the perk yourself. It feels more natrual way of progressing than to sleep in an area and level up as it were. Sure it's not a perfect solution (how do you find a trainer for example) but it feels more realistic than "sleep and perfecto". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaldir Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I totally agree with you! A level-less system where you learn moves from masters of the trade, by swinging your sword enough and reading about it. Pretty much like it is in TES, but without the levels! Things should evolve naturally, making it a more immerse (imo, as immersion is a subjective thing...) and realistic! The problem about such a system is that it would be hard to balance, and especially hard to make fun for the majority of players. Leveling up gives a sense of achievement, which many players needs for the game to be any fun. There are other ways of giving that sense of achievement, but leveling up is by far the most efficient and simplest one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeValant546 Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 I totally agree with you! A level-less system where you learn moves from masters of the trade, by swinging your sword enough and reading about it. Pretty much like it is in TES, but without the levels! Things should evolve naturally, making it a more immerse (imo, as immersion is a subjective thing...) and realistic! The problem about such a system is that it would be hard to balance, and especially hard to make fun for the majority of players. Leveling up gives a sense of achievement, which many players needs for the game to be any fun. There are other ways of giving that sense of achievement, but leveling up is by far the most efficient and simplest one of them. That is true this is a better means, and this is what I been saying. A choice that can have better alternatives means that the choice might not be the best choice. Personally in my opinion I think more complex=better game. However people do not understand the difference of complicated vs complex. Complexity means everything has a point and usefulness, while complicated means everything typically is tough to figure out, this can because of several reasons. I just want complex games with deep skills not less in my opinion. Again it hard to tell since I do not have the game :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlimitedrevolver Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Why do game devs keep removing RPG elements? That's the reason I didn't like Fable 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaldir Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Why do game devs keep removing RPG elements? That's the reason I didn't like Fable 3... I don't see any removed RPG elements... You play the role of a character.You customize your character.You evolve your character.They're all there! ;) --- And yes, they remove some things, but at the same time, they add new stuff.People always say: "They're dumbing it down!", but how can they dumb it down when removing features that people are used to, while adding new ones that people are not used to? Not replacing the old features and systems would be dumbing it down, as people already know those... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuraikiba Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Yeah, well, like I said, Bethesda shouldn't reward people's lack of ability to comprehend things. Attributes make characters diverse, as countless numbers of combinations are possible for the attributes, more than enough for every single person in every TES game ever made to be unique in attributes. Not to mentioning Bethesda chops many skills every game. Daggerfall had 39 skills, Morrowind chopped and modified 12 to make it 27, Oblivion merged and cut 6 skills, making it 21. As has been confirmed, skyrim has chopped off at least 3 skills. As TES games progress, they become more generic, and prune excessively. The amount of content will doubtlessly be significantly less than Oblivion, as Oblivion had less than Morrowind, Morriwind had less than Daggerfall, and Daggerfall less than Arena. All that happens is some minor things get added, and the games move more towards generic form, while putting graphics over gameplay for the most part. The times they didn't, they couldn't. Now that decent graphics are possible, Bethesda will try and cut as much as they can get away with to make room for graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csgators Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Considering they have been developing this for five years I am not worried at all, if they start releasing a new one every year or two that's when you know they are cutting corners. DA2 anyone? Edited May 21, 2011 by csgators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhorizon09 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 No that's not what I meant. I'm really concerned that people place stats so highly on their list when it comes to RPG. But that's off topic... I like the new system, the old system is another redundant system that should be cast out, along with Iso-camera and non-voiced protagonists. Does intelligence even have a number? I like the issue of perks and I would go further as to completely remove level ups and replace them with a system of perks and trainers, a cross between Risen, The Sims (bare with me) and FO3. When you have enough experience, you ask a trainer to teach you or read a book (or other tasks) or obtain the perk yourself. It feels more natrual way of progressing than to sleep in an area and level up as it were. Sure it's not a perfect solution (how do you find a trainer for example) but it feels more realistic than "sleep and perfecto". Does intelligence even have numbers you ask? Before asking such a bold question in what seems to be a way of bashing traditional RPG elements, you should ask yourself: Does health have numbers? Does damage have numbers? Does Strength have numbers? etc, etc... My point of bringing this up is because there might not be definite numbers in attributes such as intelligence or strength, but numbers definitely helps a player to measure how far his/her character has progressed in that attribute. I believe this is one of the main reasons developers choose to keep such forms of visual data in certain video games. Think of it this way: without some form of visual measurement, it's more difficult to see if your character improved in a particular stat/attribute even if the improvement is just slightly. I have no doubt that tremendous improvements can be visually obvious. For example, a character who gained a tremendous amount of strength and is able to carry more weight and hit foes harder. I can assume that the character can hit foes harder because foes are dying a whole lot faster this time around when I bash them with my weapons. Then again, it's more difficult to visually see if my character has improved in strength if there is no data of some sort visually showing me that my character's level of strength is higher than before. Games are suppose to be fun, challenging, and entertaining. However, why take away something helpful out of a game if all it really is some form of visual measurement for character growth? If you want to add realism into the argument, it would make more sense for a character with low strength to start off scrawny in body build, but would develop into a more muscularly defined individual if the character has been training in heavy physical activities. About the sleep thing: sleep is in a way some sort of fresh reboot for the body and mind to rest and grow from any previous activities. I don't see how sleep would take away "realism" in a game such as TES. In fact, realistically if you don't sleep and rest, all that training you did will probably hurt you more in the long run than actually benefit you. I'm not saying that the sleep thing is perfect in Oblivion. Some changes do need to be made. Maybe fix some things about sleep such as not allowing sleep to restore health points to full if the player suffered major wounds, is poisoned, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacars Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I myself don't see a point in making a big fuss over the lost attributes. That's just the way video games have gone the whole time: refining and streamlining things to make it more fun and less bother to play. Not to say that I don't like complex gameplay, I actually like spending time scrolling trough the tons of text, thinking and choosing skills. It's just that the attributes of TES were never a good system. Choosing wrong in the beginning could break the game completely. Not to mention it locks the way you will play. Choosing a major skill and later noticing it to be useless is very frustrating. It happened for me, and many others. The attributes can make characters more diverse, yes, but there are so many flaws in the system I am glad the got rid of it. I still have my doubts about the new system, but I'll give it a try. I think you should too. As for the the quests. There were less of them in Oblivion, but they were much more detailed. Morrowind mostly had those "go kill the guy A" or "Take me to the place B". I liked the main quest more than Oblivion's though. The graphics is something I don't much care about. Shaders, texture resolution, polygons - all that means nothing to me. It's the overall look and the art style of the game that matters to me. I prefer Morrowind's graphics to Oblivion, and I can openly and proudly admit that. I think games have become little less about graphics now that consoles have been out for so many years. Remember the talk about Oblivion and all the hype about the "next generation graphics"? Compare that to Skyrim. Minor things? Dunno about you, at least for me the wood-cutting, smithing, cooking and mining are quite welcome addition. It's the little details that draw you into the world and provide fun outside the quests. More interaction with the world can be only counted as a good thing. Ultima 7, one of my favorite games ever, has the amount world interaction I've never encountered in any other game. It's good to see that even some company is drawing from that in this age of static video game worlds we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenergy Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I totally agree with you! A level-less system where you learn moves from masters of the trade, by swinging your sword enough and reading about it. Pretty much like it is in TES, but without the levels! Things should evolve naturally, making it a more immerse (imo, as immersion is a subjective thing...) and realistic! The problem about such a system is that it would be hard to balance, and especially hard to make fun for the majority of players. Leveling up gives a sense of achievement, which many players needs for the game to be any fun. There are other ways of giving that sense of achievement, but leveling up is by far the most efficient and simplest one of them. Yeah that's a huge problem but the concept is still great. I still hope that developers could make a game like that gives a sense of reward while being realistic. I guess we are stuck here till we find a solution. @ redhorizon09; I was being retorical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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