No attributes? Am I the only one Worried?

[CalibanX]

I think the folks at Bethesda thought that emphasizing choosing Perks when you level up was more interesting and fun than just adding +X to Intelligence. It's also, to my mind, aesthetically cleaner in various ways. After 30+ years of the Attributes template in RPGs I think it's time for new ideas. I'm all for it. If it turns out the new system has flaws there's always a mod to fix it.

[Stormcrown]

I'll probably side with the people who say the number system is not needed.

 

I think the numbers restrict your thinking.

 

Example: Well...I want to be a warrior, so I'm going to put my points into strength and endurance!

 

You don't have to do that. You just PLAY the way you want too. The number system was invented by games such as D&D because they lacked the ability to do anything without it. While I think the total elimination of it is a drastic step, I think it will be a wonderful game.

 

You could always take a note from Brink, who had "Body types" Perhaps someone could add a mod that allows you pick a strength level; such as "High, medium low" or whatever, and then agility and intelligence be the same. I don't think we need a 1-100 number system, but having "Ranks" of sorts for attributes could be a fascinating idea, if it was possible within the game. Having those 3 options, or even just having rank 1-5, 1 being the highest. And it would have to be hard to train your skills higher.

 

I think this post deserves to be brought back as well, because its an interesting debate that a lot of people haven't thought of.

[Odai]

The attributes are redundant, and in all reality they expanded the number of skills beyond that of even Morrowind.

 

And please... I dare you to argue :)

[Lowk]

I just spent, like, an hour reading this entire thread. Guess on which page I realized it was started months ago? :wallbash:

 

AlterMann22, you owe me an hour of my life back.

 

Staying on topic and putting on my serious face, though, it was interesting to see the tremendous shift in attitude that has occurred on this issue since Q2 of 2011. There was considerably more bit- er, complaining about the loss of attributes back then. With that said, I think there's actually some weight to the "attributes are necessary for maximum character diversity" argument. I'm just optimistic that the majority of the attributes' functions are there, just not in quite so blatant and, in my opinion, archaic, a form.

 

Here's hoping I'm right...

[Stormcrown]

I think we can trust Todd Howard that the quality of gameplay will not have gone down as a result of attributes being taken away.

 

I think he just removed us having to deal with it.

 

Until we see all of the perks for all of the combat skills, I don't think we can quite judge yet.

 

Perhaps some of the perks are doing more damage, taking less damage...etc and they simply moved the function from the attribute screen to the perk screen.

 

I really do like more focus on the skills though, I always thought there should be more to the skills...it was just "25...50..100...done" with tiny perks in between. Never felt "complete"

[AlterMann22]

Bethesda hasn't removed attributes, just grouped and linked to 3 parameters. So we have to talk about this, not general attributes system.

 

You maybe don't like attributes, but it's still there. For example if you want to be stronger at level up, you can, you have to increase related parameter. Bethesda bonded attributes together.

[Stormcrown]

They probably did something similar to Warcraft 3, which is Strength/Agility/Intelligence.

 

But what they named them exactly, is beyond me.

[Lowk]

Bethesda hasn't removed attributes, just grouped and linked to 3 parameters. So we have to talk about this, not general attributes system.

 

You maybe don't like attributes, but it's still there. For example if you want to be stronger at level up, you can, you have to increase related parameter. Bethesda bonded attributes together.

That hasn't exactly been confirmed, but it would be the logical step given the information we have. I've heard that increased Stamina may increase encumbrance/running speed/jump height, and that increasing Magicka may increase regen rate. No idea what increasing health does.

 

If this is the case, I welcome it! Super-smooth compared to previous entries in the series.

[Stormcrown]

Bethesda hasn't removed attributes, just grouped and linked to 3 parameters. So we have to talk about this, not general attributes system.

 

You maybe don't like attributes, but it's still there. For example if you want to be stronger at level up, you can, you have to increase related parameter. Bethesda bonded attributes together.

That hasn't exactly been confirmed, but it would be the logical step given the information we have. I've heard that increased Stamina may increase encumbrance/running speed/jump height, and that increasing Magicka may increase regen rate. No idea what increasing health does.

 

If this is the case, I welcome it! Super-smooth compared to previous entries in the series.

I would say anything related to a "warrior" class like Endurance and Strength might be called "Power". Rogue-type attributes would be "Agility" and Mage ones would be "Intelligence" or a synonym there-of.

[Odai]

My understanding...

 

Upon leveling up you get a boost to your health.

 

Then you can choose

1. Increase the total amount of stamina

2. Increase the total amount of magika

3. Increase your health a second increment

 

Now as for the Oblivion Attributes

Intelligence- (increased max magika... now you simply can choose to do that directly)

Willpower- Magika regeneration rate (instead they approach it from the other side... with perks spells cost less to cast, which accomplishes the same thing)

Strength- Increases directly from perks (also rumored to be increased with the supplemental health boost)

Endurance- increased health per level (now you simply increase health directly)

Agility- Governed how easily you get staggered or knocked down (there are perks that reduce effects of staggering)

Speed- Governs how quickly you get from point A to point B... (moved to stamina with the new sprint function. More stamina = longer sprint = get to point B faster)

Personality- Affects the starting disposition and max. (effected by perks in the speech tree)

Luck- Affects how often you find nice things...and how often good things happen to you (governed by perks in the speech and rumored in the lockpicking trees)

 

So if you want to increase them, then do so directly.

 

Now as for skills

There are technically 18 skills.

 

But when you divide them into their respective trees...

Destruction- 4 trees

Restoration- 6 trees

Alteration- 4 trees

Enchanting- 3 trees

Smithing- 1 tree (laso)

Heavy armor - 2 trees

Block- 3 trees

2H- 4 trees

1H- 4 trees

Archery- 2 trees

...etc

 

that alone ... an incomplete list is 33 branches... or refinements of skills which is more variation than Morrowind had.

 

The difference is that the game is more REAL.

In real life... if you can swing a bat and kill someone with that, you will do just fine swinging an woodcutting axe. There is a basic understanding that is universal and your physical strength is what governs your basic damage... But then there is technique. These are the perks. You swing a bat differently than you do an axe. The weight is different, the point of impact... the two, though fundamentally similar, are very different pieces of equipment and require a skill to use properly and effectively.

 

So Block is a category for 3 skills that all use an instrument in a defensive way. 3 Techniques. One branch involves using the shield offensively... bashing, charging. The short branch involves how quickly you are able to raise your shield... timing is everything. And the final branch involves defensive use of your shield (blocking arrows and spells along with parries [riposte])

 

So... the numbers are all there. They are all hidden, but they effect the game the same as they always have. They are all still influenced by the player directly. In the end this makes the player make MORE life decisions than in previous games. 280 perks and 70 are truly available. The decisions and the numbers still matter. I'm not afraid.