No attributes? Am I the only one Worried?

[Vagrant0]

The thing was that with Oblivion, stats kinda determined the order that you raised skills in order to get the most health, carry, magicka, and stamina as you could. This just links everything more to skills and tries to be a bit more meaningful instead of mindless grinding for something you won't ever use again. I'm sure each race will still have their own starting skills/stats to make them unique, if not in vanilla, certainly from mods. Depth can be added.

[BladeValant546]

The thing was that with Oblivion, stats kinda determined the order that you raised skills in order to get the most health, carry, magicka, and stamina as you could. This just links everything more to skills and tries to be a bit more meaningful instead of mindless grinding for something you won't ever use again. I'm sure each race will still have their own starting skills/stats to make them unique, if not in vanilla, certainly from mods. Depth can be added.

Well I cannot argue, and it might be something in the back ground in which you could be right. But at the same time It does raise questions on how they will do this.

[csgators]

@BladeValant546

 

you start with:

 

Its a major concern, and please drones don't defend this this is NOT a good idea and its completely a dumbing down tactic.

 

You are implying that you are correct and that anyone who disagrees is a stupid fanboy. I like what they have done with the changes so far. I mean do full grown adults actually increase in Intelligence? They may increase knowledge but that is a different thing entirely.

Sigh...are you a drone....A drone defend something with out evidence they dont even good reason they will scream thing like STUT UP or adapt etc. Now...if you have a good reason to why these are removed and can be work then show them instead of starting an argument on something that is a matter of perception...I never called you stupid....I called drones stupid.

 

You are the the drone, thinking that because it's been done in the past it must be the best way. I TOLD you why I think the changes are better. Having my character use an axe when they are proficient at swords just so I get a decent strength increase is ridicules. But I guess you like jumping down the road to build acrobatics. If you don't like my responses don't answer them. :wacko:

[Kaskas]

And how a redundant stat can make the game better? Depth and redundant stats are no good friends. To make a better depth you need two things, more choices and choices that really change the character a lot, many perks for each skill are a lot of choices, many more than a +number to one stat. As far as choices that really change your character, perks, if they do them well, change the character in a more definitive way than a + to an atribute. In Oblivion the character tend to have a 80 - 100 at every atribute they use, two end game mages would only differ in their chosen spells, race, birthsign and skills, as magic related attributes would be maxed, with perks you could have a mage with lots of mana regeneration and a great bonus to fire spells damage and the other with a hug pool of mana and expert on runetraps and area spells.

[stars2heaven]

Yea He does make a valid point in the regard to intuitive, It might be good just I do not know how in depth it will be. My fear is that it going to be to much cut and dry, than gradual and situations like that. I feel I have a valid concern I just wish these thing would be discuss with fan prior to a design change of this magnitude.

 

Im not sure what you mean by cut and dry unless you mean the same thing that you have already said, that you fear it will make characters too similar. If that is what you mean then let me ask again: Why should a starting character actually be distinct from any other starting character? Wouldn't it be, at the very least, just as fun to define him yourself through the choices you make as it would to have a pre-defined character?

[stars2heaven]

And how a redundant stat can make the game better? Depth and redundant stats are no good friends. To make a better depth you need two things, more choices and choices that really change the character a lot, many perks for each skill are a lot of choices, many more than a +number to one stat. As far as choices that really change your character, perks, if they do them well, change the character in a more definitive way than a + to an atribute. In Oblivion the character tend to have a 80 - 100 at every atribute they use, two end game mages would only differ in their chosen spells, race, birthsign and skills, as magic related attributes would be maxed, with perks you could have a mage with lots of mana regeneration and a great bonus to fire spells damage and the other with a hug pool of mana and expert on runetraps and area spells.

 

This is another good point about stats. In Oblivion, end game was the same no matter what you chose to do. In Skyrim, with the system they have chosen to use, it is almost impossible that two characters will be alike in any way except at the very beginning

[BladeValant546]

Yea He does make a valid point in the regard to intuitive, It might be good just I do not know how in depth it will be. My fear is that it going to be to much cut and dry, than gradual and situations like that. I feel I have a valid concern I just wish these thing would be discuss with fan prior to a design change of this magnitude.

 

Im not sure what you mean by cut and dry unless you mean the same thing that you have already said, that you fear it will make characters too similar. If that is what you mean then let me ask again: Why should a starting character actually be distinct from any other starting character? Wouldn't it be, at the very least, just as fun to define him yourself through the choices you make as it would to have a pre-defined character?

Guess not maybe the reservations might be pre-mature then :). Well I guess I concede my point to your point of view. You right It might make more intuitive design. I just need to discuss not be flamed because of one sentence. Thank you for being critical and giving me the right criticism. I guess you people make valid points with redundant attributes. Thank you again I stand corrected.

[BladeValant546]

@BladeValant546

 

you start with:

 

Its a major concern, and please drones don't defend this this is NOT a good idea and its completely a dumbing down tactic.

 

You are implying that you are correct and that anyone who disagrees is a stupid fanboy. I like what they have done with the changes so far. I mean do full grown adults actually increase in Intelligence? They may increase knowledge but that is a different thing entirely.

Sigh...are you a drone....A drone defend something with out evidence they dont even good reason they will scream thing like STUT UP or adapt etc. Now...if you have a good reason to why these are removed and can be work then show them instead of starting an argument on something that is a matter of perception...I never called you stupid....I called drones stupid.

 

You are the the drone, thinking that because it's been done in the past it must be the best way. I TOLD you why I think the changes are better. Having my character use an axe when they are proficient at swords just so I get a decent strength increase is ridicules. But I guess you like jumping down the road to build acrobatics. If you don't like my responses don't answer them. :wacko:

Dude stop getting hung up on one thing and getting so defensive, I need several points of view, can you not tell I listening to other posters. I trying not to get hung up on semantics I literally trying to understand and now you given valid points after other people actually given more perspective. Also,If I were to attack you, you would know...just don't get so hung up on simple statement bro its not worth it, and again it was not my Intention I explained my intention to you. Yea you made them and don't insult by calling names I never called you a name yet....

[stars2heaven]

Guess not maybe the reservations might be pre-mature then :). Well I guess I concede my point to your point of view. You right It might make more intuitive design. I just need to discuss not be flamed because of one sentence. Thank you for being critical and giving me the right criticism. I guess you people make valid points with redundant attributes. Thank you again I stand corrected.

 

Don't get me wrong, I too wonder exactly what it is that will now govern all the things that stats used to. But I am reassured by the fact that they have a system that I know can accomplish it if they do it right. With the work they seem to have put in to the game so far I doubt they will make in fatal errors.

 

Also, like Vagrant0 and others have said. Mods will fix it if it is broken, which is a double layer of reassurance.

[BladeValant546]

I get to idealistic sometimes to anyone offend I do apologize, But Yea your right bro, I try to understand Just do not want Skyrim killed like many other RPGs that went to the way of the mainstream market. But I appreciate the answer by everyone, I guess they might make skills better, but also if it is broken then modders will make it all better.