Gambit77 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I ran into this a few days ago. My solution was to start riding off of vanilla categories. So most of my armors (that have been since updated) now use things like AP_Reciever to alter armatures, AP_Barrel for palette mods, AP_Grip for material swaps, ect ect. This works as long as omods are given unique MA keywords to prevent them from showing up in other item's modmenus. I'm still not sure if excessive Dynamic naming keywords cause issues with this, but Ive been trying to be more effcient with them.It looks like it might be the MA keywords that contribute to the count. I just did another test. I disabled Cybernetics and ExoFrame, which had 15 MA keywords combined. Wearable Backpack's menus showed back up on all the packs (12 menus), and I got 3 menus slots from CCCA back, although all three were named Paint and were filled with lots of things from all the missing menus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niero Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Are you sure its not just keywords in total? The goofy 'invisible robots' bug gets reported a lot on keyword heavy mods and obviously has nothing to do with item-mod categories. Also could it be something to do with how much stuff is in your inventory when using the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanOstrus Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 @BigandFlabbyYeah, I think removing the the mod slots menus would would put you in the clear. You just don't want to rely on people being able to access mod menus that they might not be able to use because of the bug. Ok, so I was just reviewing my keyword usage for BNS. Was thinking about reusing vanilla keywords. I don't have enough mods active to produce the formlist bug so I can't test if it would work. But if I took the 6 category keywords I added and delete them. Then change the keywords the mods use to something like ap_PlasticTorso instead of ap_BNS_Blouse would that suffice to avoid the bug? Since ap_PlasticTorso is already a vanilla keyword, though would not normally be listed as a valid mod category for my piece(s)? I admit I'm not really well informed about the details of this formlist bug. Do you have a link to somewhere where it's detailed in depth? On another note, looking at the Chesko post for Skyrim, it looks like it's a papyrus issue (scripts?). This leads me to understand that the mod menus are produced/generated/populated via a vanilla script. If that's the case, then decompiling/modifying said script to use an array fix along the lines of the one referenced in chesko's post would work to fix the bug? Or is this bug hard coded in the game exe itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanOstrus Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Are you sure its not just keywords in total? The goofy 'invisible robots' bug gets reported a lot on keyword heavy mods and obviously has nothing to do with item-mod categories. Also could it be something to do with how much stuff is in your inventory when using the bench? I'm not sure how related it is, but looking at the actor records for Mr Handy/Codworth/etc models they use 12+ omods to build the actor. If there's keyword overflows on mod tied keywords that could explain the bots going invisible. Though it wouldn't totally explain it since they're all using vanilla words which would be loaded first. Which to my understanding in the case of the keyword bug the last loaded mods are the ones cut off. Since the bots are in the game's primary esm it would be first loaded and shouldn't be missing then. Maybe i'm way off base here. Maybe it'll help figure out what exactly is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit77 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Are you sure its not just keywords in total? The goofy 'invisible robots' bug gets reported a lot on keyword heavy mods and obviously has nothing to do with item-mod categories. Also could it be something to do with how much stuff is in your inventory when using the bench?I'm not sure, but so far it only appears to be mod menu keywords. It could be MA + AP, I'll have to test disabling mods with both since the last plugins I disabled only had the MAs in it.And the way I understand it, the robot mesh parts are actually OMODs so it could be related in that if the robot's OMOD category got borked it could break their appearance. What I can't account for though in that hypothesis is how the hell is the bug making it all the way into the Fallout4.esm. So I don't know if it's related or not.I'll do some tests on the inventory aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit77 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016  Ok, so I was just reviewing my keyword usage for BNS. Was thinking about reusing vanilla keywords. I don't have enough mods active to produce the formlist bug so I can't test if it would work. But if I took the 6 category keywords I added and delete them. Then change the keywords the mods use to something like ap_PlasticTorso instead of ap_BNS_Blouse would that suffice to avoid the bug? Since ap_PlasticTorso is already a vanilla keyword, though would not normally be listed as a valid mod category for my piece(s)? I admit I'm not really well informed about the details of this formlist bug. Do you have a link to somewhere where it's detailed in depth? On another note, looking at the Chesko post for Skyrim, it looks like it's a papyrus issue (scripts?). This leads me to understand that the mod menus are produced/generated/populated via a vanilla script. If that's the case, then decompiling/modifying said script to use an array fix along the lines of the one referenced in chesko's post would work to fix the bug? Or is this bug hard coded in the game exe itself? Using something like ap_PlasticTorso instead of ap_BNS_Blouse would that suffice to avoid the bug? should not add to the count as far as an AP keyword is concerned, but without a corresponding MA keywords couldn't it end up putting your blouse on npc synths? So far it appears that MA keywords add to the count, not sure yet on whether AP keywords do to. You could be correct about the script idea. I'm not a coder though so it's outside my skill set. Also I don't know whether its in a script or hard-coded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanOstrus Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 OK, So. I did some funny business testing with BNS. Broke down and installed every mod I could think of with tons of keywords. Homemaker, Settlement Keywords, ALL the Cross stuff. That caused the original BNS to freak and do weird things. First not giving me all the pieces on a newly crafted armor. Then not showing the mod slots. Ok so yea, duplicated bug. Good progress for testing. I then went and just reassigned all the ap keywords to reuse vanilla ones. I took some guidance from the Cross Cybernetics esp in where it re-uses gun mod parts. ap_gun_receiver [KYWD:00024004]ap_gun_Barrel [KYWD:0002249D]ap_gun_Grip [KYWD:0002249F]ap_gun_Mag "Magazine" [KYWD:0005D4D7]ap_gun_Scope [KYWD:00022499]ap_gun_Muzzle "No Muzzle" [KYWD:0002249C] So now BNS uses those as well. I left a newly created ma_BNS_ClothingObject keyword and added that to each OMOD as an MNAM. Now it crafts complete, and shows the proper mod slots (and correct omods in the slots), for the BNS item. I did *not* delete the ap_BNS keywords, they're still in the mod, just not referenced by the OMOD's. I'm not sure how I could go about testing adding multiple ma keywords in this particular test. Suppose I could add a bunch of ma keywords, reference them all in the ARMO and see what happens. Though that shouldn't make any different in the crafting/mod windows. I would think it only has to do with the OMOD's. I suspect that the way it builds the mod category window is to take the item you're modifying, read it's ap list. Then parse *every* OMOD in the game creating a pseudo database of ap keywords. Potentially failing because of overflowing some limit of the amount of keywords. Then looking at the item's ap sub list to filter out the ones it cares about, and making another array containing the categories to list. Then further filtering making more arrays (maybe after selecting a category) of the individual mod objects for each category. Trying to think this out in my head is making it hurt. TL;DRLooks like re-using vanilla ap keywords may be a workable solution. But as you stated would need an MA filter so it doesn't end up on things it shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanOstrus Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Ok testing update. I've gone and put re-used ap keywords every omod to create categories. They're not properly named of course but the omod's have descriptive names so not a problem. I then created new ma keywords (renamed and edited the old ap keywords). So the ARMA record references 6 vanilla ap keywords, and 7 new ma keywords. All the omod's filter out to 6 of the new ma keywords. The 7th is just an extra added to the ARMA for no good reason. This still shows the proper mods. I posted a new esp over on the BNS LL forum for testing. Any further thoughts? Edited February 7, 2016 by BigAndFlabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niero Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Good to confirm that riding on vanilla ap_ keywords works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refusedzero Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Description of the bug and its' effects in Skyrim by CheskoMore info from Chesko on the formlist/keyword solutionSample script fix of the issue in Skyrim by CheskoI hope these are helpful in anyway. From talking with a few Skyrim authors it appears a scripting solution is the only thing that will work (tonycubed2 was originally the one who pointed me to the Chesko thread Gambit77 linked previously). I believe the issue may be more than just keywords and actually come down to a formlist cap, but I am not 100% on that (this turned out to be the issue in Skyrim, the game couldn't look up formlists correctly when enough had been added). Maybe talking with F4SE team might yield some ideas?Again, hope these are helpful, sorry if they're not. Good luck in solving this! Edited February 7, 2016 by refusedzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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