Meta-game campaign idea

[AdultFilter]

So the idea is a campaign that makes the player cheat to win through glitches and sequence breaking. All glitches in the campaign will be intentional, they won't be true glitches, just something to fool the player. The game will be playable entirely without using any dirty trick, but the normal campaign ending will be inevitably undesirable. The player will glitch the campaign to get the "true ending".

 

As the player glitches a way through the story, the campaign becomes increasingly more defective, with apparent graphical errors and "unused" assets leaking into the game. If the player doesn't "cheat", then the campaign just gets very hard. The player should be tempted to cheat.

 

The plot could go like this: you are the cliché chosen one sent by the gods to set things straight. But you are actually being toyed with by these gods, who will constantly sabotage you. The theme of the story should be fate, free will, and the only way to escape the manipulation of the gods would be through glitching the game.

 

If interested PM me.

 

edit:

Something that I now realize should've been specified - and which I'm hoping AF adds to the OP (maybe even description?), is that, while anyone wanting to discuss design ideas is nice, what I think we'd mainly need would be people to model and possibly design art assets. We might also eventually need one person who's a lot better at programming than I, though right now there's a good chance everything needed there simple enough for me to do myself.

Edited May 6, 2011 by AdultFilter

[scottmctony]

A few things I want to add/clarify, having discussed this with, erm, AdultFiler. fairly more technical and less.. "pitchy"

 

Regarding the "true" ending, it wouldn't just be a matter of sequence breaking your way to plot points the "normal" campaign suggests and saving the day without the Gods blessings (IE: finding Kagrenac's Tools and killing Dagoth Ur on your own, end cutscene happens, everyone is happy), but more a matter of setting out on your own trail, Gods be damned, everything the universe wants you to do be damned, until things are broken enough that you can rebel against reality/the game and by way of that the gods/the developers.

 

Regarding sequence breaking, then: there would be hints at what future plot points might involve, such that you'd have some semblance of direction, and there could be a hidden "sequences broken" variable that increases how defective the campaign is at various thresholds, alongside an "unwinnable states caused". There could be one point at the end of the normal campaign that ostensibly looks like an unwinnable state which would effectively railroad the player into sequence breaking should they wish to avoid plotdeath, and, with enough subtlety of course, into later-game clues. Immediately beyond this point the game world may seem like a far more mild version of the 4th day glitch in Majora's Mask, rather than anything too messed up.

Edited May 6, 2011 by scottmctony

[Telyn]

It's an interesting idea, particularly because overuse of console can glitch your character for real. At that point the player would have difficulty knowing if it was a plot glitch or a real glitch.

[AdultFilter]

It's an interesting idea, particularly because overuse of console can glitch your character for real. At that point the player would have difficulty knowing if it was a plot glitch or a real glitch.

 

The idea is that the player never knows that there are plot glitches or that glitches are intentional.

[Telyn]

Realistically most players will probably know this is a meta-game project before they download it, but if they cheat with the console enough, there is a chance that they will actually glitch their games. For example, under some rare circumstances using tcl can cause major problems. Duplicating a quest item can be problematic and duplicating some other scripted items can cause issues also. Abuse of placeatme can bork your saved game. Bash can sometimes save it, sometimes not. A surprising number of Oblivion players know how to use the CS. It's spectacularly unlikely that nobody would ever realize these glitches are part of the mod, and that if one person does find out, they will not post it somewhere Google will find.

 

Oh, I see, maybe you were not thinking they would use the console or open up the CS, that they would cheat in other ways limited to exploiting apparent game design errors, for example. I'm not someone who normally uses console cheats, but so far I have done that in Oblivion a couple times because real game glitches were severe enough that there was not really any other sensible option. Probably the most common example of such a case is a stage malfunction. Say for example, you gave Jauffre the amulet, and he took it, but the game doesn't register that you have given it to him. If that sort of thing happens to a player, they are probably going to google and see how to resolve the situation. Now, that example has not ever happened to me, so I don't actually know if there would be a possibility of pickpocketing it back nor whether Jauffre still has it once you hand it over. I've never looked. However, I think you get the idea. What they will see in Google is setstage advice. There is no easy way to prevent players from Googling. although theoretically Google might respond to a request to remove any mention of the game from Google. You might have to cheat though and claim a legal reason. ;)

 

My guess is players aware of what the mod actually is and does would play it as a challenge. Can I be strong enough not to cheat? I do think that would be interesting, especially for a philosophical/introspective player whose thoughts might stray into musings about real life. I suspect that a player who did not know or figure out that these glitches are part of the game would play it a bit, decide it's badly made, and uninstall without investigating further unless it's compelling enough that they would want to fix it with the CS. Maybe they would post warnings not to download this "buggy mess." Not sure if that would be a win or a lose for you. It would accomplish making them aware they had been playing a game, and thus disrupt their escapism. Generally things like graphical glitches create uneasiness in the player. Often people reinstall the game multiple times, trying to make it go away. You can read lots of examples on these boards.

 

Basically, if they figure out the secret, or you later announce it, if you are lucky, it will be studied in universities. If they don't, and you don't, mostly what will probably happen is people will give up and warn others not to bother.

[scottmctony]

Bluh, too tired to make a post with much actual content, but just popping in to say, you got it when you said "cheating" meant exploits, not console. It would also generally be in the form of things the player would have to do intentionally, preferably obvious but not too obvious, to "break" the game. One possible example I thought of - say you're being led to stand before the king or something by two guards, and forced to wear something that drains your magicka and your hand to hand ability. But along the way there's weapon racks full of swords, ostensibly decoration, but you could grab one and easily fight your way out. The journal would act like it doesn't know how to handle this, the way you have to take leads to clues that shouldn't be there, and the world outside once you escape is immediately fractured in a manner that isn't completely out there, but is hopefully compelling.

The player would be led to attempt to do this by precedent set throughout the game, general temptation due to how the gods have been s***ing on you, and the general setup of this "quest" - that is, it could be the one that leads to the undesirable inevitability (death).

 

Other things would be special items or spells given to the player throughout the story can be used in ways that, again obviously but not too obviously, create opportunities the player "shouldn't" have. And, past a certain point, the breaking game/reality could grant the player seemingly bugged abilities that they shouldn't have, IE: infinite levitation.

 

And finally, when AdultFilter says they would never know it was intentional, I think he means it wouldn't be explicit - the nature of the game could be vaguely hinted at in the description, and it would become apparent after some exploration, but the game itself nor the readme would outright tell them.

 

Of course this would be a rather difficult design challenge to actually implement, and that's why I consider this an ambitious project even if from a resource POV it wouldn't be very difficult at all. I think the hardest part is, once the player is acting in the broken environment, finally free from "fate", to get them to progress the plot on their own. It's placing a lot of trust in the player, even more than vanilla Morrowind does.

 

And one last point - think about various meta experiences in other games, like Arkham Asylum or Metal Gear Solid 2. Now imagine them being a bit subtler and lasting a lot longer, I guess? I dunno, I actually had this idea while reading Homestuck but it seems applicable.

Edited May 6, 2011 by scottmctony

[AdultFilter]

Maybe they would post warnings not to download this "buggy mess." Not sure if that would be a win or a lose for you. It would accomplish making them aware they had been playing a game, and thus disrupt their escapism. Generally things like graphical glitches create uneasiness in the player.

 

Yeah I was thinking that was the biggest risk for it and the player would have to be introduced to glitching in small steps, as to not create uneasiness. It should be something that the player feels guilt about doing but is compelled to do anyways. Yeah, I know, that is a pitfall for the mod and the player can't be counted to be in this mindset. Oh and yes, the kinds of cheats would be based on exploiting the game, not on using console commands.

 

This idea, being risky, I believe it would work well on a relatively short campaign.

[Telyn]

I hope this project gets made. I was imagining something quite different but your idea is deeply subversive and wouldn't cause any actual risk. I do think people will probably use the console unless you disable it in the game.

 

I'm always in favor of projects which help disprove the common notion that a game can't be art. Looking forward to it, if you make it.

[MarkInMKUK]

I'd like to see things like areas of the building that don't QUITE meet correctly, which leaves a gap you can squeeze through IF you are a smaller character, not wearing armour over a certain class, into a "secret passage" - or a similar area which only taller characters can reach (unless you implement draggable barrels to stand on), that kind of thing. Being able to stand on the bed and climb through a window above a door, or onto a barrel, chect of drawers and wardrobe to get out of a skylight would be fun, and only work if you are a compulsive "what can I interact with" player.

 

Graphical "glitches" - you COULD have a heap of really rubbish swords, but have one which looks identical but every few seconds has a tiny sparkle animation running for a few frames - as if it's a nearly exhausted magic weapon. Take that sword and add a varla stone to your inventory, and it sucks the power and becomes something rather powerful, changing the texture as if the rust had fallen off, and changing the in-inventory name too.

 

Armour - have a book that gives you a fairy tale about an armour enchantment - "makes leather into ebony" or something - where the character has to speak the words. If you type that into the console as if speaking, your armour changes stats.

[scottmctony]

Something that I now realize should've been specified - and which I'm hoping AF adds to the OP (maybe even description?), is that, while anyone wanting to discuss design ideas is nice, what I think we'd mainly need would be people to model and possibly design art assets. We might also eventually need one person who's a lot better at programming than I, though right now there's a good chance everything needed there simple enough for me to do myself.