Of UFO’s, Nazis and secret antarctic bases

[TrooperScooperMKII]

Well, there's always my airship idea. That could come later.

I want to repost something from the SS forums.

 

I found the perfect island for the Nazis- it''s called Deception Island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_Island

 

Measuring 12 km (7.5 mi) in both directions and at 576 m (1890 feet) this actively volcanic island boasts one of the safest harbors in Antarctica, with a narrow and treacherous channel called Neptune''s Bellows linking a caldera/harbor with the sea. It''s off the Antarctic Peninsula, ~800 miles south of South America.

It's got a villainish name, an active volcano (that actually wiped out several bases there. The water's actually warm enough to go swimming in!) for masking IR activity and providing water, heat, and power, a safe, and a fairly large harbor sheltered within the walls of the crater.

 

This could be the Raven Rock for the Nazis. I also don't think that any nukes would have hit the Nazis in Antarctica- if anyone knew they were there, they would have invaded and taken the tech for themselves, or simply bombed the continent to the stone age during the Great War.

The Nazis could have another, more accessible base that WAS bombed... perhaps this group got cut off from and/or rebelled against the command structure in Antarctica? Area 51 could be that base.

ETA: I think that this group could have been bombed alongside Area 51 during the Great War. The Nazis there (which are the ones who move in for the crashed ship) are trying to get back to HQ down south, and they figure that the crashed alien ship is the perfect way of doing so.

So, the conclusion of this mod would be wiping out the Nazis in Area 51 before they can get contact their main base. The next one would probably be the best place to put the airship thing, with the Nazis from the south wanting to find the base and investigate the crash site. This would end with the PC snagging the airship and slaughtering the Nazis that came to retrieve it. Mod three would have the PC flying south to blow up the base in Antarctica.

Edited May 24, 2011 by TrooperScooperMKII

[MajikMoshos]

Trooper that place seems almost too perfect! Heck, "Deception Island" seems like a great name for a DLC, which is what this is practically gonna be. Not only that, but it's also a less demanding worldspace since it'd be mostly water with a single island in the middle.

 

Perhaps the ancient ship actually created the giant hole that is Port Foster, eventually being buried under cooling molten rock by all the volcanic activity as the cold water flooded over it. The Nazis would have a hidden harbour, with a bunker entrance tucked away nearby, taking you deep down to an undersea tunnel that leads to the ship. Of course you'd have to navigate around the island fighting mutated Polar bears and the like (killer Chinstrap Penguins?), exploring the old WWII-era British Base which would've been built to seek out the Nazis - but never finding them. Eventually the Nazis triggered a Volcanic eruption to force a British evacuation - the Allies eventually deciding that the Nazi presence was no more following the nuking of Antarctica.

 

Heck, for the finale the courier would have the choice of kick-starting a volcanic eruption that causes the whole place to start flooding in! Magma then starts spurting into tunnels, making certain areas completley innaccessible while others are filed with super-hot acidic water that saps your health away as you try to swim through it. The magma then reacts with the ships core, causing a huge explosion that sinks the island under the freezing waters just as the courier escapes.

 

And thus, a logical reason as to why you can't ever return to the Island.

 

Great find Trooper!

Edited May 24, 2011 by MajikMoshos

[TziporaHalevi]

What is so appealing about Nazis? Don't get me wrong, I love zombies, and Nazis and the combination of the two, but I can't even figure out why it entertains even me... Ah well i'm all for this mod.

 

Makes me think though.. if nothing was going on in Antarctica.. no country, nothing there'd have been no reason for it to get bombed.. thus Antarctica and the Wild Life of it would remain virtually untouched except for by the Nazis there.

[devinpatterson]

What is so appealing about Nazis? Don't get me wrong, I love zombies, and Nazis and the combination of the two, but I can't even figure out why it entertains even me... Ah well i'm all for this mod.

 

That is an interesting question. I wish I could give you a deep and insightful answer, but I can only really guess. I suspect it's a combination of things all melding together to give them their morbid fascination. They had a cruelty that surpassed almost any other war crimes, especially their medical experiments and concentration camps. They were technologically advanced (arguably the most advanced of their time) and terrifyingly effective in war and they essentially raised a small depressed european country into a world power in a few short years. We also have a lot of the cultural memes left over from the war that will permeate our society for quite a while. I think these reasons (and others) kind of meld together to make villains that we hate and fear and make it so much more satisfying when you put them down

 

Makes me think though.. if nothing was going on in Antarctica.. no country, nothing there'd have been no reason for it to get bombed.. thus Antarctica and the Wild Life of it would remain virtually untouched except for by the Nazis there.

 

From what I gather there was a 1961 treaty preventing military bases there, but before that in 58 the U.S. really did bomb the area with 3 nukes (ariel bursts) for testing purposes. But in the fallout world, they may have had military bases up there, since the U.S. in that timeline was a lot more aggresive

[devinpatterson]

Well, there's always my airship idea. That could come later.

I want to repost something from the SS forums.

 

I found the perfect island for the Nazis- it''s called Deception Island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_Island

 

Measuring 12 km (7.5 mi) in both directions and at 576 m (1890 feet) this actively volcanic island boasts one of the safest harbors in Antarctica, with a narrow and treacherous channel called Neptune''s Bellows linking a caldera/harbor with the sea. It''s off the Antarctic Peninsula, ~800 miles south of South America.

It's got a villainish name, an active volcano (that actually wiped out several bases there. The water's actually warm enough to go swimming in!) for masking IR activity and providing water, heat, and power, a safe, and a fairly large harbor sheltered within the walls of the crater.

 

Sounds like a interesting setting. It would make sense as a forward base for nautical operations and the geothermal energy. But I had imagined the saucer itself buried in the mainland with a few kilometers of ice over it. I suppose it's possible the saucer could be submerged in the bay. But we do need some reason that it was hidden through time (it may be thousands of years old). Probably what would be best would be for the base to have started construction 4 years ago when the germans emerged from the saucer (just after the alien ship zeta destroyed crash landed) and is now functioning as a forward base for all german operations.

 

This could be the Raven Rock for the Nazis. I also don't think that any nukes would have hit the Nazis in Antarctica- if anyone knew they were there, they would have invaded and taken the tech for themselves, or simply bombed the continent to the stone age during the Great War.

 

Just a recap of the highlights of the timeline (not written in stone), for more details check out the first post on page 2. They did send troops in, over 4k, the result was failure (this is near the war's end), then the us nuked the area with 3 bombs. This would have killed the personal in the surface base, but the germans down 2 or 3 kilometers in the saucer under the ice were not killed. However everything would appear to the U.S. to be destroyed (they didn't have knowledge of the mothership) and the area blighted with blast and rads. We can assume the U.S. knew about the surface base and that it was used for advanced/alien tech research, but that it was essentially impenetrable (due to weather conditions, advanced weapons etc) without sacrificing a huge number of troops. So much like hiroshima the decision was to nuke it. As far as the U.S. was concerned that was that, end of job.

 

Two additional details;

IRL the area wasn't nuked til 1958, but I figured for our timeline it made more sense for the U.S. to nuke it right away or at least relatively soon after the war ended (like 49, 50, 51 somewhere in there).

The nukes completely destroyed the surface base, collapsed the ice tunnel the germans used for access to the saucer, air etc. Not to mention the damage from shock waves (which can liquify a human without destroying the saucer hull) and rads. This gives us a reason for them to go into cryo and having to dig themselves out with drones and whatever other surviving heavy equipment they have left. That lets us take them out of the timeline until present day fallout and then drop them back into the timeline wherever we want. This way we don't have to explain why they havn't been out conquering the wasteland or what have you.

 

The Nazis could have another, more accessible base that WAS bombed... perhaps this group got cut off from and/or rebelled against the command structure in Antarctica? Area 51 could be that base.

ETA: I think that this group could have been bombed alongside Area 51 during the Great War. The Nazis there (which are the ones who move in for the crashed ship) are trying to get back to HQ down south, and they figure that the crashed alien ship is the perfect way of doing so.

So, the conclusion of this mod would be wiping out the Nazis in Area 51 before they can get contact their main base. The next one would probably be the best place to put the airship thing, with the Nazis from the south wanting to find the base and investigate the crash site. This would end with the PC snagging the airship and slaughtering the Nazis that came to retrieve it. Mod three would have the PC flying south to blow up the base in Antarctica.

 

I don't really see how the germans could have any base on the mainland U.S. (like area 51) to be bombed in teh great war.

 

For the trilogy (and I just threw the trilogy thing out there, doesn't have to be 3) I was thinking each saucer would be a mod. The first being the recently crashed saucer, The second being stopping the germans from acquiring mothership zeta with it's functional deathray and the last being invasion of their antarctic base. But you could also switch #2 and #3. For example ie you clear the antarctic base to find that the nazi's have tortured your alien companion, leaned of zeta and are currently on their way to commandeer the deathray. So of course for the good of the planet you have to chase them and stop them from taking the bridge.

[devinpatterson]

Trooper that place seems almost too perfect! Heck, "Deception Island" seems like a great name for a DLC, which is what this is practically gonna be. Not only that, but it's also a less demanding worldspace since it'd be mostly water with a single island in the middle.

 

Perhaps the ancient ship actually created the giant hole that is Port Foster, eventually being buried under cooling molten rock by all the volcanic activity as the cold water flooded over it. The Nazis would have a hidden harbour, with a bunker entrance tucked away nearby, taking you deep down to an undersea tunnel that leads to the ship. Of course you'd have to navigate around the island fighting mutated Polar bears and the like (killer Chinstrap Penguins?), exploring the old WWII-era British Base which would've been built to seek out the Nazis - but never finding them. Eventually the Nazis triggered a Volcanic eruption to force a British evacuation - the Allies eventually deciding that the Nazi presence was no more following the nuking of Antarctica.

 

Heck, for the finale the courier would have the choice of kick-starting a volcanic eruption that causes the whole place to start flooding in! Magma then starts spurting into tunnels, making certain areas completley innaccessible while others are filed with super-hot acidic water that saps your health away as you try to swim through it. The magma then reacts with the ships core, causing a huge explosion that sinks the island under the freezing waters just as the courier escapes.

 

And thus, a logical reason as to why you can't ever return to the Island.

 

Great find Trooper!

 

Yeah I think we will defintely have an option to blow up the antarctic ship, it will probably be the only viable option to kill the germans since they are going to be overpowering in combat (unless the player can get a inertia shield), but most likely it will be via sabotage of the saucer (with the E.T. companion providing the quest). But the ship being buried in ancient lava is interesting, since it would provide the same plot device as being buried under kilometers of ice, meaning deception island could be used as the main setting for both the base and saucer.

 

I always like the idea of the ancient saucer being buried under the ice, but it's not a dealbreaker or overly important.

 

Honest hearts has yao guai so polar bears are ok, but we don't have any models for anything else other than an arctic fox or somesuch.

[MajikMoshos]

I'm not sure if I'm on with the idea of the Nazi's capturing the companion. That's why I suggested the mate (read an earlier post on page 4 or 5 for more detail). 'She' would be the reason the alien drags the courier along to antarctica, so you'd be forced to jump straight from the Mojave Crash Site to Antarctica. If you want the alien to be an adventurer in his own right, then it'd be nice to see him as a resourceful, witty type who evades capture and kicks ass. His mission to save his mate gives us something to relate to him by - we'd sympathise with him, we'd root for him - and it'd make it all the harder if we choose to kill him at the end. If anything, the Nazis can learn the location of Zeta through his mate, or by hacking theNavigation system recovered from the Mojave Crashsite. Also, a trip to Zeta would also provide the Alien with a chance to return home should you convince him to NOT call for help or hack/destroy his transmitter. If you kill him though, something would have to play out that'd make you realise the Nazi's are heading for Zeta...

For any sequel mod to work, however, would imply that the Nazis might have another base somewhere...otherwise what sort of force could they possibly have, considering their main base and the old ship are all located there? Unless of course, they've built something on the Moon...

 

A word on designing the ancient ship - since it's so much older than Zeta and the Mojave ship, it should have a different look and feel going for it. Alternate pipes, different looking walls etc. and a sign that the tech there is older and perhaps clunkier than what you'd see on Zeta. Boxier? Perhaps so. I wouldn't expect the ship to have holographic interfaces either - unique 'alien' terminals could be in their place instead, german computers hooked up to them for ease of use. That's something else to take into consideration - what sort of computers should the German's have? I can't imagine the same terminal system being used, that's for sure. Perhaps something akin to the Enigma machine, but fancier?

[devinpatterson]

I'm not sure if I'm on with the idea of the Nazi's capturing the companion.

 

Yeah that's just an example of how they find out if they capture you and your in hte prisoner storyline. Which much like zeta wold involve breaking out of your cell and putting some slugs in our german friends, but with the added task of recovering your alien companion.

 

It could also be played out many different ways. Here is an example with zeta being the last mod and the player taking the offensive military approach. You finish off the boss and there is a cut scene (or just a character dialog) where the SS leader is dying and begins to laugh. He says something along the lines of "you have not won american, even now we take the greatest prize of all", etc etc cue grandiose villain death speech about the 1000 year reign of the 4th reich yada yada.

 

If the player takes the subtler infiltration approach this could lead to finding notes left on a terminal. And I'm sure many other plot hooks that can advance the story, for example we can script (I hope...maybe) 3 scout saucers heading up into the sky as the player approaches the base on foot. That can be the first clue that someone is in a rush to get to zeta.

 

Here is an example with the antarctic base being the last mod & zeta being the second. We have the nazi's already interrogating the E.T. in the mojave saucer when the player finally reaches the last encounter. Perhaps they have been questioning him for minutes perhaps hours. But whatever the case hte poor little guy has spilled the beans about mothership zeta to the SS and they have radio'd it in. So after you clear out the last nazi's holding the e.t. he conveys this info and you must commandeer the scout saucer and fly to zeta where you will exit in the hanger and begin the bloodshed. (remember zeta is basically unguarded, because if you have a gigantic faster than light spaceship with a deathray able to blow up whole cities you wouldn't want any kind of security in it :wallbash: ). The player can fly to zeta with help of his companion to 1. save mankind, or 2. exploration personal profit, or 3.take zeta and rule the universe. So we have 3 different reasons and there should be at least one that would attract virtually all players.

 

The whole trilogy thing is just a way to cut up the workload into more manageable chunks, so it doesn't take forever to get out there.

 

 

 

 

That's why I suggested the mate (read an earlier post on page 4 or 5 for more detail). 'She' would be the reason the alien drags the courier along to antarctica, so you'd be forced to jump straight from the Mojave Crash Site to Antarctica. If you want the alien to be an adventurer in his own right, then it'd be nice to see him as a resourceful, witty type who evades capture and kicks ass. His mission to save his mate gives us something to relate to him by - we'd sympathise with him, we'd root for him - and it'd make it all the harder if we choose to kill him at the end.

 

I'm open to the idea of a mate and the idea of the mate being captured. But that would depend on what order they go in, for example if zeta is the second mod in the series, it wouldn't make much sense to have a mate because they would take her to the antarctic base most likely. And that would more or less force the antarctic base to be the second mod. So what I'm saying in essence is the mate sub plot will depend on the main storyline. It will either add to it, or be superfluous.

 

My main concern isn't with the mate per se but how you described him (the e.t.) convincing you (the player) to come along. Ie, if the E.T. puts a bomb in the players chest you lose any sympathy for the alien.

 

Regarding the adventurer aspect it's hard to say if we want him to be a little indiana jones who is quite the little alien hero. Or if he should be a tragic figure on an alien planet fighting just to stay alive. Both aspects have their merit. The tragic figure generates more sympathy, but I think the little hero/adventurer is best since he's going to be a companion.

 

I don't believe though that we'd have the courier kill him, I was just alluding that a possible storyline could be the alien sacrificing himself to detonate a saucer. It would be a heroic action to save a race that is not even his own. But I never imagined the courier would kill him or want him dead.

 

 

 

If anything, the Nazis can learn the location of Zeta through his mate, or by hacking theNavigation system recovered from the Mojave Crashsite. Also, a trip to Zeta would also provide the Alien with a chance to return home should you convince him to NOT call for help or hack/destroy his transmitter. If you kill him though, something would have to play out that'd make you realise the Nazi's are heading for Zeta...

For any sequel mod to work, however, would imply that the Nazis might have another base somewhere...otherwise what sort of force could they possibly have, considering their main base and the old ship are all located there? Unless of course, they've built something on the Moon...

 

Well I imagine he will be transmitting for at least a few hours or days, because the nazis will pick up that transmission, it's basically what leads them to the mojave saucer and lets the player know when he's close (although just before he gets there the signal should mysteriously quit). As far as the alien dying and the plot hook for realizing the nazis are on their way to zeta. We could have a death scene with the nazi leader, and we could even have the player fly the scout saucer up to zeta (although that is quite a stretch, seeing as how a player is unlikely to have a ufo pilot license). But I think a better option is if you kill the alien you'v F'd yourself as far as the storyline. Just a consequence of your actions.

 

 

A word on designing the ancient ship - since it's so much older than Zeta and the Mojave ship, it should have a different look and feel going for it. Alternate pipes, different looking walls etc. and a sign that the tech there is older and perhaps clunkier than what you'd see on Zeta. Boxier? Perhaps so. I wouldn't expect the ship to have holographic interfaces either - unique 'alien' terminals could be in their place instead, german computers hooked up to them for ease of use. That's something else to take into consideration - what sort of computers should the German's have? I can't imagine the same terminal system being used, that's for sure. Perhaps something akin to the Enigma machine, but fancier?

 

It's possible but it will depend less on desire than it will on finding a good tileset, since it would be probably be a pain to make an original set for such a large dungeon (the crashed saucer).

 

I

Edited May 24, 2011 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

'm also thinking about the whole area 51 thing. Hard to forget about it, since it's so obviously a kin to this theme. The alien would most likely be aware of it, and it could be a source to load up on tech before hitting the saucers, but we need more of a hook than that if we include it. Plus that would probably make it a 4 part series :ohmy:

 

I'm also pondering the wisdom of having an option of joining with the nazis. It may not be content that we want to produce if it takes an inordinate amount of work scripting and whatever. Perhaps it might be worthwhile to put out a beta without the option first and see if people want it in a later revision.

 

And perhaps it might be good to have a vertibird or two and several enclave corpses near the mojave saucer. This would be a sign of things to come with a couple of enclave encounters in the saucer, or it could just as easily be BOS. Anyone that has mobility. Long story short the nazis took out the party guarding the transportation, but it could be another vehicle/vector to the antarctic.

 

The radio thing is bugging me. Our alien bud can't be sending out radio waves to another star system as a distress unless he doesn't mind decades going by. He would have to use some form of faster than light communication if this is being sent beyond our solar system. Which means only alien tech could pick it up, but I like the idea of the courier picking up a signal when he/she gets close to the mojave saucer. Perhaps we should make it a standard radio signal e.t. is sending out for other members of his ships survivors (if there are even any left, we know at least one group passed through the mojave), not to his homeworld. And that would be why the enclave and the BOS are there. They are the only ones that know alien language other than the aliens (acroding to the vault wiki the enclave know of aliens and their tech. The BOS has some alien tech and has encountered bodies & a ship so it's possible they would recognize alien language if the scout ship had audio logs. I think to just about everyone else it would be jiberish.

 

Also due to technical reasons we may have to make this a FO3 mod >:( I'd personally hate that, but some of the statics aren't there, or I'm doing something wrong with the Mothership Zeta Content Restored mod. I'll try to get in contact with the author and see if he can help claify it for me.

Edited May 24, 2011 by devinpatterson

[TrooperScooperMKII]

WRT Deception Island-

I compared it to Raven Rock in that it escaped notice/destruction due to being entireyl underground, i.e. never touched by anyone during the battles in Antarctica. The reason I'm skeptical about the war thing is that Antarctica as a whole would have plenty of military bases if anyone started building there- the US would definitely have built a few bases there, and everyone else would follow. Thiws would be such a game changer (Antarctica having massive resources- oil, natural gas, gold, the works) that the continent would probably have accelerated, if not instigated, a major showdown akin to Anchorage. This is why I'm opposed to having anyone know about the Antarctic base; lorewise, there isn't a single mention of Antarctica, so no surface activity, no drilling/searching for oil (which could easily have detected the alien ship and/or Nazi bases) and no invasion/nuke would have touched it. And of course Deception Island is too strategic for the US to pass up the chance for a base, which would mean a nuke or two would hit it in the Great War; not what we want, really, as the island is too good in its current form.

 

That being said, the Nazis could have hidden everything from everone- perhaps using some sort of jamming/cloaking combination to convince survey teams that there was nothing worth fighting over. Of course, this would also prevent the Nazis from being detected.

 

ETA: the island was basically one giant Oahu type shield volcano until 10000 years ago, where a VEI-6 eruption (or alien ship crash....) basically blew out the whole center of the island, leaving a horseshoe shaped caldera with a narrow (~200 meters/feet? wide, I can't remember which) opening and large ridges all around. IIRC there's a small peak in the center- this is the current volcano (or one of them) that is still active, though dormant.

Edited May 24, 2011 by TrooperScooperMKII