dazips zips rars and 7zs

[DarkeWolf]

In this discussion, I'd like to talk about all the different file formats that we can package up or mods into. And how this has an effect on the end users of our mods.

As most of us know, the installer that comes with the game is pretty limited, and daupdater.exe is only capable of handling .dazip extension mods.

 

There's a couple of community created installers, DAM http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=286

And DAMM http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=277

Both of which can handle .dazip and .zip formats.

 

Since .dazips are the most commonly used format, it would seem logical that those are what we would pack them all up as.

However, they're not always that easy to do... especially for very newby modders. And, sometimes, for some mods, it's not always necessary.

Here's how to make dazips. http://social.bioware.com/wiki/datoolset/index.php/Builder_to_player

 

So... for those mods where it's not necessary to go to all the hassle, why do it?

 

A lot of us therefor package up our mods as .zip .rar or .7z

While this is really convenient for us... it does make things a bit of a hassle for the end user. Especially the .7z.

Don't get me wrong... I absolutely LOVE the 7z format. I use it primarily, whenever I can! :thumbsup:

 

However, this makes things a bit complicted for some of those that are using our mods. Some of these people don't even have a clue as to how to install mods that are packed in these file formats, and have no idea what they need to do to get the files into the form that they need to use.

 

Many of our mods are packed up in these kinds of packages, and all they need to do is unpack the files and put them into their override folder.

 

The trouble here... is unpacking these kinds of mods. What program do they use? winzip? winrar? 7zip or peazip?

 

This is what I'd like to address, and ask of our modding community. Some conformity in this, to make this process easier for those that are completely new to modding this game. Pretty much every operating system on the market right now, can handle .zip files, by default. As well as both of the aftermarket installers.

winrar is good, and it's free. But you get that damned nag screen to buy it. Which is just damned annoying. 7zip is also free, but now includes toolbar installers. Some of us don't want that crap put on our computers. peazip is pretty good, but it's not that easy for some users to figure out at first.

 

Bottom line- This is only my opinion, but I think that if we're putting this stuff out for the community that we could make it easier for them to pack up our non-dazip mods in .zip format. That way they don't have to install any particular program to handle the format. They can just drag and drop them into DAM or DAMM, and get started out on playing the mods that that got them on this path. ;)

 

Any input and thoughts are more than welcome :)

[FollowTheGourd]

I just archive everything in ZIP format, since it's the easiest for anybody to handle and Windows or Mac OS X comes with the ability to open it without third party applications - even if it's a DAZIP file, so I can include a readme with it. It's good enough unless I really need to compress things further.

 

Before, what was it again, the v1.03 patch, you couldn't just double click to install a DAZIP file anyway; you had to manually run daupdater from its directory or include the XML file it was looking for along side your DAZIP. So including a readme with install instructions still doesn't hurt. The only time lately where I didn't create a DAZIP was because the mod just contained a single DDS file, and for some reason, the game wasn't properly disabling and reenabling it in the addons XML unless I put some dummy files in there - it was just a hassle to deal with.

 

Btw, WinRAR isn't free last I knew. That nag screen means you're supposed to actually buy it if you keep using it.

[XTR3M368]

I am a "7-Zip" guy. I like that it is free and works so well with other zip formats. It is easy to use as well. DAZIPs are going to be far more compatible than "dumping it in your override" type mods. My partner and I have run into many snags by "core resource altering" mods that have no way of being compatible without modifying something within them. The limitation with the DA engine on how it reads only one can be worked around (to a point) by putting mods in DAZIP format instead. "Quests and Legends" is about to have a full version release that is going to be around 700MB and won't conflict even though it adds new options as aggressive as allowing players to multi-class and cross class learn....i.e. mages learning 2h talents without changing core resources. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that are fine to go into the override...morphs for example....that don't mess it up for anyone else that wants to mod in a certain area. I would love to see a couple of "DAZIP" savvy modders that would offer to make DAZIP versions of popular files that mess with core resources in an attempt at compatibility. I realize this would require permission and not all will agree, but if some do...it is a step in the right direction.

 

On the "easy to install mods" note, I did author an article posted on the Nexus on to recombine multi-part mod downloads back into DAZIPs using 7-Zip found here...

http://www.dragonagenexus.com/articles/article.php?id=58

I can't seem to find the "articles" link to it anymore both on the home page or on my member page. I did see the "Dragon Age Articles" in the wiki section but it is not there. I had to go and get the link to my article off of the "Quests and Legends" mod to even post it here. (which is the mod I wrote it for being that mod's master tester) It will of course work for any multi-part mod download, DAZIP or otherwise. Can we make sure that my article is put somewhere easier to find.....considering that its author had to dig around to find it himself. :rolleyes: :tongue:

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

I did .7z initially, but BSN's projects won't accept that file format. I didn't feel like requiring users to change the file extension back to .7z, so I just go with .zip now.

 

Of course, I've only modded DAII, so the .dazip discussion is less relevant to me >.>

[XTR3M368]

Just an FYI, you can save files as a .zip using 7-Zip. I found that out after being grumpy about the very thing you bring up. Right click on the file and instead of choosing "add to YOUR FILE.7z", go down a little further and choose "add to YOUR FILE.zip".

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

Yeah, that's what I've been doing. I'm a die-hard supporter of 7-Zip, so I'm always going to use it for archiving, even if I'm not using the .7z format :P

[Tair]

In my opinion, .zip is the way to go here - strictly concerning the reasons outlined in the OP; as stated above, it's highly compatible. More importantly, everyone knows what it is. We are aware of and deal with .rar/.7z on a regular basis, but I have found that many people are not or do not.

 

As an aside, .7z is an extremely interesting format. For example, on OS X, there's a workaround to install the "windows-only" High-Res Texture Pack by renaming the .exe to a .7z, and then installing the .erf files packed in the .7z as patch files.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Tair

[DarkeWolf]

Well, ok... if we're gonna be technical, then winrar is an unlimited trial program with a nag screen to purchase it :P

[beeto]

I agree with the opinion that the zip format is the best way to go as far as the end user is concerned. I like 7-zip a lot, it's my default. It opens up just about everything and it's free.

 

However, when it comes to my mods, I want to make it as easy as I possibly can. a lot of people will consider having to download a program to open an archive to be too much of a hassle and won't want to bother with it.

[DahliaLynn]

I agree that *.zip is the most common (and probably oldest) compression/extension used to this day. In fact, I only learned about 7z this past year, and found it initially confusing. Of course now that I use it I enjoy it's benefits, but for a player, I would prefer to use something more common to avoid the hassle for people to download a new program.

 

There are players who don't even know how to open zip files, as they feel they should double click on the file and it's supposed to install.

That's when I send them to a winzip link, and explain to them what a zip file actually is. Sadly, this can't be avoided, since packaging multiple files is inevitable.

 

Regarding overrides, for the most part I wouldn't encourage modders to use it, unless they replace a unique feature (morphs for example) as stated above.

By using an addins folder (dazip) we keep things organized, mods are on an even level of hierarchy, and limit possible conflicts which are the greatest problem between modders today.

 

The override directory is the highest on the priority for the game and players shouldn't have to know the details of why that is, and what is causing their problems.

Naturally there will always be conflicts, especially when one modder edits the same resource as the other, (*.dlg for example) But that's is when we can be more informative to our players by having clearer lines as to what may conflict with what. Override makes your mod *the* mod and technically should only be used as a last resort.

 

As a new modder way back when, I had unfortunately learned that using overrides was *the* method, hence some of my mods use it.

 

Teaching new modders to use DAzips was really how Bioware intended. and technically the cleanest way to mod.

 

I would also discourage telling players "this mod conflicts with any mod that modifies "script" or "*plo "or any technical jargon that literally means nothing to the average player, as this is mod tech talk and no player would have a clue as to what that implies. They also have no where to look to see what their conflicting mod actually modifies unless they are advanced users, or have a toolset to unpack the erfs. Even if the person uses an override directory, I wouldn't send him to look through all those files to find any possible conflict.

 

In short,

1. Encourage new modders to use DAzips wherever possible

2. The players life should be as easy as possible, and keeping installation simple using conventional programs is the way to go.

3. Keep explanations as simple as possible.

4. Inform players on conflicts by naming actual mods found and update the list as necessary.

 

my two cents :D

Edited May 20, 2011 by DahliaLynn