Embedding Textures in Mesh file

[SoulKatana]

I am playing around with meshes and textures for Morrowind, and I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that some games support embedding textures into the mesh (.nif) file. A couple of questions:

 

1). Does Morrowind allow the use of meshes with embedded textures?

2). Could it lead to any sort of performance boost? (since the game wouldn't have to search for the texture)

 

In NifSkope, you can attempt to embed textures (Right-click on texture file >> "Texture" >> "Embed"), but often it throws an error:

 

##

Unsupported DDS format: 861165636

FourCC

Could not save texture

##

 

It seems to work just fine with Vanilla meshes and textures (i.e. NifSkope doesn't throw an error; have not tested the resulting NIF in-game). My guess for why it doesn't always work is that NifSkope doesn't want to embed compressed DDS files (?). This leads to my other questions:

 

3a). Which DDS format(s) is(are) acceptable for embedding?

3b). Is it possible to convert DDS files from one format to another?

4). Is there another program that could embed textures that wouldn't be as picky as NifSkope?

 

I have not been able to find anything specific about embedded textures in NifSkope's documentation.

 

Thanks for your help!

Edited February 19, 2016 by SoulKatana

[RubberMan01]

I think it can only embed TGA's and Bitmaps mate.

 

1. I don't think NiF's can.

2. I should imagine it would be due to current computers there is no real need to increase performance in such an old engine.

3a) Sorry not sure. Unfortunately I use Vista 64 and the DDS support isn't available for me :(

3b) Yes. You can load in the main DDS texture only (skipping the MIPS) and save it as another format.

4. No idea. I model mostly and use Milkshape to texture (Don't ask) and then just adjust the path with NifTexture

 

I have a new model I just made so will try it out and let you know if I get the same error.

[RubberMan01]

Ok. The DDS format failed and gave me your error message but then I tried the same texture as a TGA and it worked.....

 

Also no problems with the model in TES or when running the game. Interesting.....

[SoulKatana]

Thanks for your replies, RubberMan.

 

I think I may have figured something out. Like you said, TGAs always seem to work for embedding. Additionally, the following file types have worked for me:

 

1). Uncompressed DDS files;

2). DDS files with DXT1 compression; and

3). DDS files with DXT5 compression.

 

Which leads to my other observation -- DDS files with DXT3 compression do NOT work for embedding into a NIF.

[RubberMan01]

Here's the main thought mate. Do embedded textures actually improve performance......

 

The only way to figure that out would be to actually embed them all lol

 

On the other hand..... I have just made an entire town with all my own models in it. I could check the fps now and then embed the textures in my models and re-check the fps after??

[SoulKatana]

Good point. And yes, that would be great if you discovered whether or not any change in fps occurs! Besides the possible performance improvement, I can think of a couple of potential benefits here:

 

1). If a mod's textures were embedded prior to distribution, it could simplify the process for installing and (especially) uninstalling.

 

2). It could help clean up the Morrowind\Data Files folders -- which, with a heavily modded game, become quite messy.

 

If there is even a slight performance boost, that would be icing on the cake. I didn't mention the first two points before, but they were part of what made me interested in this idea in the first place.

[RubberMan01]

The trouble is in using TGA's :( even at a higher performance rate you would still have ropey textures rather than the sexy DDS counterparts. I'll give it a whirl anyway when I get the time.

[xander2077]

i think some of the textures are indeed embedded in the nifs anyway, but still call for the external file in the BSA or folder, and here is why i say that. i have a completely different texture set for the steam centurions in my mod folders (data files/textures/etc), i also have nifskope set to look for them in that same folder in the game data files so it shows the new textures i have in my game in nifskope. but importing a steam centurion nif into blender and choosing to show it textured still brings the old vanilla textures into blender without even pointing them to the game folder or any folder at all. so they are embedded already. in fact it was such an issue it textured the face of the new model with the old bmp file embedded in the model. so when i modify a nif i have to clean the textures and materials up or there are weird results. no idea why this redundancy exists, but it does. and perhaps the only way i can think it makes sense is at one time they were going to embed the textures in the vanilla models and then somewhere along the way they discarded the idea, but many of the game nifs still have the texture embedded in the material set. they just dont use that in the game or it doesnt really effect anything. one of the weird ones is the dwemer lights in tribunal, examining those shows a mixture of the two, and for some of the textures there is no external link at all, it looks unfinished when opened in nifskope or blender, so they did link some of the external textures and embedded others.

 

the good thing about this is it can be reused for another purpose entirely, instead of embedding textures in the model, you can use that feature to fake ambient occlusion by vetex painting in blender. since it recongizes the occlusion (faking shadows on the details) as a texture, it will show up as a texture layer along with the external file and add even more detail to the model. and that looks a lot better than the really garbage vetex painting on most morrowind nifs.