Abuse of Power

[grannywils]

DeTomaso, in no way was I attempting to excuse Hitler's behaviour by describing his childhood. I was merely attempting to educate Marharth on abuse of power, and that article came readily to hand.

 

I thought your analogy with Tolkien was an excellent one, by the way. I could not agree more that a bad childhood is no excuse for the kind of behaviour in which Hitler engaged. I, myself lived through a rather difficult childhood which I will not discuss here. However, I will say this. It has served to enlighten me, to make me a stronger, more caring individual and to help me to understand my fellow humans and to wish to learn more about them. I cherish all of our differences, and wholly resent the abuse of power by anyone, large or small (read individual or government or corporation).

 

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

[marharth]

DeTomaso, in no way was I attempting to excuse Hitler's behaviour by describing his childhood. I was merely attempting to educate Marharth on abuse of power, and that article came readily to hand.

 

I thought your analogy with Tolkien was an excellent one, by the way. I could not agree more that a bad childhood is no excuse for the kind of behaviour in which Hitler engaged. I, myself lived through a rather difficult childhood which I will not discuss here. However, I will say this. It has served to enlighten me, to make me a stronger, more caring individual and to help me to understand my fellow humans and to wish to learn more about them. I cherish all of our differences, and wholly resent the abuse of power by anyone, large or small (read individual or government or corporation).

 

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I don't see much point in attempting to educate me on abuse in power with that article.

 

I do not need to be "educated" on the subject, it was simply a bad example.

[Jopo1980]

Look what happened to Gaddafi, he abused his power and in the end started killing his own people and he got dragged out of a sewer and shot. A barbaric end, many would have preferred for him to be sent to the International Criminal court, but in the heat of the moment someone put a couple of bullets in his carcass and spared him the trial. Now he rests in an unmarked grave somewhere in the Libyan desert.

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

I guess I'll give this topic a shot: abuse of power is the use of rule-making or enforcement authority for personal or political gain.

 

The closest to the line I can think of on the "not abuse of power" side is the Group of 88 in the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax case.

 

The Group of 88's letter against the Duke Lacrosse team was abusive, and there is no doubt faculty are in a position of power relative to students, but it's a much clearer line to say the prosecutor Mike Nifong abused his power.

 

The Group of 88 encouraged students to picket the mens' dorms with signs saying, "Castrate!" While this call for sexual violence against the innocent is reprehensible, the Group lacked the authority to actually carry out such a threat. Was it abuse of power? Technically I don't think it qualifies.

 

The Yosi Sergant scandal is as close a borderline case I can think of on the other side of the line. For the Director of Communications of the NEA to be promoting pro-government propaganda isn't necessarily "abuse of power" given that the NEA is an organ of the state; however, the government programs he was promoting did not yet exist -- the enabling legislation was being debated in Congress. For the NEA to use taxpayer money to lobby Congress on pending legislation was an abuse of power.

 

I guess when it comes to calling something "abuse of power" I'm a strict constructionist; to me "abuse of power' has a very definite meaning, so that not all abuse, even by the powerful, is abuse of power. As my two examples should show I'm more concerned with the severity of acts of abuse than with their circumstances.

[Aurielius]

Marharth, may I be the first of many to disagree with you on the Hitler thing. He may have been crazy as a loon, but I am fairly certain that he knew exactly what he was doing to hurt people, and that he knew he was abusing his power (whether or not he felt it was for the greater good, he sure knew it was for his own good).

Well if he knew for sure he was abusing his power, then I would agree with you.

 

My point is that it depends on the reasons your doing stuff, not that your just doing it.

 

 

Marharth, I will not argue this point with you. However, just for your own personal edification, please follow this link. It speaks of what can happen to a person who is treated badly as a young person (in this case Adolf Hitler) and what extraordinary damage he can do to a Nation and a World as a result. If he was badly treated, his idea was to get back at anyone and anything that he could.

http://www.naturalchild.org/alice_miller/adolf_hitler.html

 

Dear God ,now I truly have heard the most blithe, naive, argumentative for it's own sake rationalization of the deeds of one of the heinous individuals to walk this planet. If Granny had not quoted you I would have missed this jewel in your crown of inane remarks, this reconfirms my decision never to read from the Abridged Book of Historical Insights as related to us by the eminent scholar Marharth. I won't be reading the inevitable rationalizations of the indefensible.

[marharth]

Marharth, may I be the first of many to disagree with you on the Hitler thing. He may have been crazy as a loon, but I am fairly certain that he knew exactly what he was doing to hurt people, and that he knew he was abusing his power (whether or not he felt it was for the greater good, he sure knew it was for his own good).

Well if he knew for sure he was abusing his power, then I would agree with you.

 

My point is that it depends on the reasons your doing stuff, not that your just doing it.

 

 

Marharth, I will not argue this point with you. However, just for your own personal edification, please follow this link. It speaks of what can happen to a person who is treated badly as a young person (in this case Adolf Hitler) and what extraordinary damage he can do to a Nation and a World as a result. If he was badly treated, his idea was to get back at anyone and anything that he could.

http://www.naturalchild.org/alice_miller/adolf_hitler.html

 

Dear God ,now I truly have heard the most blithe, naive, argumentative for it's own sake rationalization of the deeds of one of the heinous individuals to walk this planet. If Granny had not quoted you I would have missed this jewel in your crown of inane remarks, this reconfirms my decision never to read from the Abridged Book of Historical Insights as related to us by the eminent scholar Marharth. I won't be reading the inevitable rationalizations of the indefensible.

Go ahead and read my replies before coming into this section with your pointless rambling please.

 

I do not even understand how you missed my replies. I honestly think you are just trying to take a cheap shot, which is to be expected from someone like you.

 

If you actually bothered to read what everyone posted before throwing around insults and not actually making a argument, you wouldn't make yourself seem like a complete fool.

Edited November 29, 2011 by marharth

[Jopo1980]

Is this thread degenerating into personal insults? Beware or we´ll have a perfectly good thread locked, so CHILL people CHILL!

[CasperTheLich]

abuse of power... all i can think of is a quote a judge said about something else. a crime which might be an abuse of power in and of itself. "i might not be able to define it... however, i know it when i see it."

[lukertin]

abuse of power... all i can think of is a quote a judge said about something else. a crime which might be an abuse of power in and of itself. "i might not be able to define it... however, i know it when i see it."

Better quote..."If you have power, you're abusing it."

[draconix]

Coming at this from a different angle...

 

While a technicality, it's also an important to know what we are actually saying when we talk about abuse of power:

Abuse, the root of which is "use" the prefix "ab" to indicate abnormal or opposite.

The word implies that for there to first be such a thing as "abuse" there must be a normal "use" which is to be somehow twisted or corrupted in a way to make it abnormal to it's normal use.

 

Power, in the sociopolitical sense, can be obtained in one of three ways that I can think of off the top of my head. Power can be created, the way one creates a business or empire, it can be taken through conquest, or it can be granted by someone with the power to do so. This is also a technicality worth noting, because it is my opinion that the means of obtaining power is what determines what constitutes as it's abuse.

 

Power that is granted, such as the way we elect officials into office, is capable of being abused because we granted that power to the officials with the intention of them acting in accordance with our collective will. Therefore things like insider trading with privileged information acquired by means of the power to which we granted them can easily be qualified as abuse of power.

 

However, power obtained by building up yourself an empire or business has no such direct granting of power, and with nobody to which to be beholden, there is no outside definition of use to be construed. In other words, if you gave yourself the power, it's use is defined by the user, making it's "abuse" inherently impossible.

 

Power that is taken through conquest can get a little more complicated when you consider the fact that the leader of a group on some level is likely granted the role of leadership, which the granters define.