God

[Nevermore]

1: Ok, I revoke my comprehention statments, I was clearly wrong.

 

2: Ancalagon: Sounds like you got lucky. You could say that divinity is good luck, and bad luck is evil. As for not being able to understand unless I go through it I disagree. I think that sence you DID go through it your to greatly affected by it to make clear desistions. I would like to add however that if I went through what you went through I might be saying diffrently, granted though from a scewed perspective.

 

3: The planet spreading thing is a good thought. A thought that warrented a 5 book set called the Rings of the Master by Jack L. CHalker (Friggin' awsome books if I do say so). Though humans will probly never change our ways and group up in an effort to spread very far. Besides, outside of colonizing the moon and mars I see no reson to go farther. Even if we biuld a self substainable ship to fly for thousends of year to alpha centair so what? You think the people alive on that ship will matter to people of earth anymore? I'd say not a chance.

 

4: Dues Ex machina isn't humans making their own gods, it's divine intervention. Though I do say that if we ever biuld a master computer to rule us (like in the rings of the master) we should call it that.

 

5: As for worship... well I don't care if whatever god(s) exists (or doesn't), I'm never going to say "Your better then me and I'm yours to command." I just won't do it. And let's say the christian god is real, here's my opinions: He want's us to bow down and that we give our aligence to him and to him alone? And if we don't he'll cause or eternal tourture and suffering? And if we don't belive in him when we die we suffer eternal tourture and suffering? Even though he never gave me much to have faith in, cuz look at the world, would YOU belive there is a kind and benevolent god? If the christian god is real and I die and he says "You better bow down to me and beg for my forgivness." then I'll just say "**** you. You're an evil and tryinical bastered." (If that offends anyone then I'm sorry but it's true.)

 

Now for free form preaching (ignore if you want):

If god is omnipotent then why did he have to rest on the 7th day? If you get tired then you can get exahsted, and sick, and weaker, and die. And that's not omnipotent, that's mortality.

 

Why does god give no reseon for letting innocents die? Don't give me the line "He works in mysteriose ways" cuz that's a last ditch effort to hold on to that last shread of hope that you need. Hope that there is some one, somthing, that is kind, that is infinitly forgiving. And that he's watching you and reward you in the afterlife.

 

Many people would kill themselves if it wasn't for their belives in an afterlife, and a god. Humans develope crutches for themselves during their lives, that's a fact. We'll blot out entire childhoods to prevent ourselves from having to deal with the grief of being molested or beaten. God is a crutch for the weak. I'm sorry but I can't see it any other way. If he/it/they exist fine, but on what I've got to base my beliefs on that's my conclusion pending more evidance.

 

I hope there is a god, I REALY hope there is. I hope it/he/she/they will understand me when I get to the afterlife that may not even be there. I want it so badly, but I'm sorry to say that in all probability there is no god. No after life. No heaven, no hell. Outside our own little universe there's no one. No one to watch after us as a whole, to guide us down a path. No one. So we must fend for ourselves. So we shouldn't sit around mopping that there may be no god, we should prepare for the worst that there isn't. I don't care if people like me or hate me for saying the things I say about their gods and religion and faith, I only care to make humanity's life better by destroying the crutches and forcing cripples (belivers) to stand on there own to feet and be able to throw them selfs at the cosmos and the after life say "I'm my own, and that makes me all the better."

 

</cornyness> *notes to self that should get a life and stop pestering people*

[Akrid]

? If the christian god is real and I die and he says "You better bow down to me and beg for my forgivness." then I'll just say "**** you. You're an evil and tryinical bastered." (If that offends anyone then I'm sorry but it's true.)

 

That's a bold statment, and you want to know what? I would be right there beside you doing the same damn thing, I would rather burn in hell than worship a God that plays a sick game and gives self awarness to man, so they realize hellish suffering, and then somhow turn it on them, because of Adam and Eve, it's all there fault. God could destroy the devil and vanquish hell but he would rather not, just so the dumb-founded people could find him on there own, woopy! good one, Christans have fun in heaven with God while we burn along with most other humans that ever existed, and all those who believed in somthing else just the same as them. And this goes the same for all religions, they hold us back as I've mentioned before. I try to convert people who have faith in religions (kind of like the Neverine helping people who where affected by Dagoth Ur) In order to help them, not mock, they can preach to me about their beliefs so I expect the same for me. I find it most easy to help those of Christan faith because I was one and can point out that religions weakness easier. It is possible to help delusional people but they wont understand the benifit in losing their burden of faith. But for those who do believe in God(s) trust me, it is hard and painful to drop somthing you've been raised to believe for sixteen years (five ago) in my case, but it lets you view the world so diffrently you actually will change in personality, and for the better. It's hard to explain, or dare I say, tough to comprehend? ;)

[Mojlnir]

"God" is a human construct, created to explain our feelings of insignifigance. What if we really don't exist at all? Or perhaps we are the computer (ala Douglas Adams), do our concerns over the existence of a "God(s)" even matter? I personally feel that there is some sort of overarching power, and that we do go somewhere when we die. Where and for how long I don't know, but I believe that we can come back as well. Anyway, that's my twp cents.

 

 

BTW- Elteraz is missing from this debate, it seems one that he would be all over...anyone heard from him?

[Nevermore]

But for those who do believe in God(s) trust me, it is hard and painful to drop somthing you've been raised to believe for sixteen years (five ago) in my case, but it lets you view the world so diffrently you actually will change in personality, and for the better.

 

That is EXACTLY how it is. I was luthern (sorta) for 16 years. And I was not happy at all. Why? Cuz of doubt. "God loves me :D . I think :blink:. I hope :( ,". Now it's "I like pudding, and Law & Order. Also reading a good long book series is grand jolly fun. What's that? God you say? Who knows, now shut up the commercials are over."

 

Dropping "the burden of faith" increases one's insight greatly. For instance before I was bound by my faith to never consider some things, like for instance sexuality. If your gay od will zap you and you'll burn forever in hell. Other religions: If you think another god could exist you'll be sent to hell to burn with the other blasphomis ethens.

 

I'm not gay (or that there is anything remotly wrong about that other then the medical complications) but now that I'm agnostic (or more spicificly Cookiedom) I am free to be if I want to be. I am free to say "God **mn it!" or even "Jessus! I can't belive you put a metal pot in the microwave.".

 

God (real or not) won't grant you freedom in this world. True freedom can only come with the ecceptance of the facts. And of what facts we got show that there is no god.

 

BUt I'm repediting my self so I'll shut up.

 

BTW, (if you don't mind) what religion are you all so I know where your coming in from on this?

[Akrid]

I don't mean to flood this thread, but we could use another side to this debate, if your reading this and disagree, please post. Everyones input is welcome, who knows maybe you have the answers we never found. ^_^ (but I doubt it)

[Nevermore]

I agree. Some one needs to step in and say "You're wrong everynoe and here's why." THen post somthing that will send us realing in discussion till bedtime.

[Akrid]

If I where back in my Christan day's I would say somthing like, "you guys are mislead, it's a matter of faith, god created you whether you like it od not and (my favorite) how do planets stay in the sky and not fall down?" :lol: :lol: :lol: I was soooo stupid, I would say nothing to back up my debate.

 

Wait if no-one steps in, then we have closed the topic, and our conclusion is

"God(s) do not exist?" I guess from this point then we lock this and start off with the next thread, "God isn't real" and start from there.

[Nevermore]

Correction, our conclusions should be:

 

1. Humans cannot comprehend some things. Like Why Micheal Jackson is still poular.

 

2. Religions can't be proven by faith alone.

 

But that's coming from *me* so take that with a pinch of salt.

[Akrid]

Ok the second should do it. And it's less offending to those still mind controled. lets help them, I post too much somone else do it. :)

[Emry]

Okay guys, you asked for an alternate viewpoint & I'd like to give my opinion on the subject. To give you a bit of background, I went through graduate school to become a priest but was never ordained (long story but it was my choice not to get ordained) so I have a bit of knowledge when it comes to the understanding and practice of religion. Secondly I'm Episcopal - which is similar to Catholism but we have English accents :lol: so my viewpoint is from a Christian perspective.

 

To begin with, yes I believe in God. I believe that there is an omnipotent force working within, throughout (and beyond?) the universe. I believe that the human understanding of God is limited because we (as humans) can only begin to perceive the Divine through the means we have available to us namely our senses and our reason. We are finite beings trying to comprehend an infinite concept; however, since our very being is finite (i.e. we die) this limits our perception of the Infinite for we cannot fully understand that which we cannot experience. But we still try to do it.

 

With that said, and given that we cannot understand God in his/her/it's totality, because we are finite beings, humanity -through the venue of religion- has anthropomorphized (humanized) God and utilized previously tribal oral traditions which were then translated into written stories to make the concept of god more attainable and understandable. I'm not saying that religon is bad or evil - far from it. It has and is a powerful venue for trying to explain man's greatest questions. And it has provided humanity with some insight to those questions, but I believe we cannot ascertain a complete answer to those questions. And so we search further for meaning and understanding.

 

Another thing to understand is that there is a profound difference between religion and faith. Faith is your personal beliefs and how you answer the questions meaningful in your life. Religion is an apparatus created by and used by the community to help each other to identify and understand their faith and to share that faith with each other and the world. Religion and faith are not interchangeable. Faith is what you believe in your heart, religion is how you express it.

 

I could go on and on but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. I welcome any comments or criticisms......