Weapons, that aren't ultra modern.

[TheShadowCross]

So often I see people making new weapons for the game. Which is cool. The problem is, none of them seem to belong in the game. It's always the same generic thing. An M4 Carbine with a scope, "tactical" flashlight, and mods that give it a bigger mag, a silencer, and a "tactical" laser. Which I find funny more than anything, since the "Marksman Carbine" is supposed to be the same thing. Next to that, is some Barret series semi auto .50 sniper rifle. And all of these weapons are always glossy and shiny, and perform miles above anything in the base game. That's no fun to me. What these kind of weapons do, is change the experience of the game, rather than enhance it. It turns a survival esque shooter, with rusty yet reliable weapons, into a desert themed CoD map with mutated animals. Which, a lot of people seem to like. And that's fine. But I wish someone would take a different approach.

 

What would really enhance the game, is remaking Fallout 3 weapons. Not just porting the existing FO3 content to show up in the game, like some mods have already done. But to remake the general set of weapons. A full sized double barrel shotgun. A Henry rifle. So on and so on. Not only that, but bring in some things you really expect to see in the specific timeline before the Fallout. Something unique.

 

How about a pump shotgun with a shortened barrel and sawn off stock? You could call it "trail shotgun" to match with the "trail carbine". It fits as a sort of bodyguards choice in shotguns.

http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/sawed-off-shotgun.jpg

 

Or a rare WW2 suppressed .45 carbine? You could call it "45 auto carbine" and have it use 45 auto Honest Hearts ammo. It's hardly ever been used in gaming, and it looks awesome.

http://www.valkyriearms.com/images/delisle1.jpg

 

And why not a couple more .22 weapons since it makes sense that they would be common for people to own before a nuclear war breaks out? ".22 rifle" and ".22 revolver". Perfect for circulation among low level characters.

http://tacticalgunsandgear.com/firearm_sales/images/ruger%201022%5B1%5D.jpg

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/23472d1246711384-most-reliable-22-automatic-pistol-survival-situation-usfa-12-22.jpg

 

That's all that comes to mind, and they probably won't be made. But I wish people made more like this. I'm personally tired of all the generic weapons people make. These make more sense to me. The shotgun, because sawn off shotguns are a staple of the apocalyptic setting. The WW2 Carbine, because not many were made, so only rich collecters would have them, and would later be forced to leave them behind to get to the vaults, only to have them looted later. And the .22s because a lot of recreational shooters love .22 weapons. So it only makes sense that a lot of them be looted and circulated throughout the wastes.

Edited May 29, 2011 by TheShadowCross

[Moraelin]

Oh goody, yet another thread where someone feels entitled to tell other people what they should put their unpaid work into, before the other one even scrolled off the page :P

 

Look, the short version is: there is no "should". Unless you're paying someone a wage for that work, you have no business telling them what they should be doing. Everyone makes what they feel like doing in their free time. Sure, it's offered for download if you want it, but if not, go download something else, or nothing at all, or make your own.

 

Additionally what rubs me the wrong way about such comments is that, as usual, it's also just uninformed:

 

1. There are pump shotguns and Henry rifles around. I know there is a Henry rifle, because I taught the author how to pack his texture into a non-replacer mod. So, you know, go download those if you want those. What business of yours is it if people also make something else than what you like?

 

2. You don't seem to know your canon, sad to say. There were plenty of modern weapons in Fallout 1 and 2. Especially in Fallout 2. Weapons there include the caseless G11, the P90, the CAWS, the Desert Eagle, etc. Or future weapons like the AK-112, or rail guns, laser miniguns, etc.

 

I don't know what gave you the idea that everything should be at the level of WW2 or wild west movies, but that's not the Fallout canon. We're talking about a war that happened in the late 21'st century, not in the 1950's. It's not a retro game, it's a retro-themed SF game.

 

You really can't rewrite the canon, basically.

 

3. Rust isn't diamond or depleted uranium. You can polish it off a gun and you can oil a gun, even if you found it rusty. Running around with a gun with a rusty slide like the "Chinese Pistol" in FO3 is just silly. It's not even flavour, it's pretty much insulting to my character to imply he'd be retarded enough to not clean it before his life depends on it. But anyway, if you find a shiny gun in a crate, well, take it as just a sign that its previous owner wasn't retarded :P

 

4. We're not in a world that got bombed last year. It's been 208 years since the war. Spoiler: Not only they actually make new guns in the meantime, but they actually make even new energy weapons.

 

So, yes, there is a very good reason to have new and shiny weapons. They're actually making new ones. It's right in the game.

 

And again, I return to existing canon: the Gun Runners and their manufacturing new weapons isn't even new. It's been a part of the canon since Fallout 1. And even there it was not something recent. They had been manufacturing guns for some 30 years before you even step out of your vault in Fallout 1. Even their trading with Adytum is already 10 years old news. By the time of NV, those Gun Runners have been in business -- and apparently expanding and making new factories -- for roughly 150 years now.

 

5. But generally, the whole theme of a whole world living off rusty guns, ammo and canned beans found in ruins is silly after 208 years. Rome went from a minor regional power to the dominant empire in the Mediterranean in a comparable time interval. The USA needed half that IRL to go from a backwater agricultural colony to a major industrial power. It's just too much time to expect the whole world to stand still and mope like they're all emo.

 

Even in Fallout 1 and 2, that was not entirely true. People were already growing crops and mining and manufacturing stuff.

 

Even in Bethesda's Fallout 3, the theme of just digging in the ruins for your next meal or round of ammo doesn't seem to be all that universal. In The Pitt they actually got a factory running, and in Point Lookout they grow their own plants. I guess DC was just too overrun by supermutants to get back on its feet, but the rest of the world was starting to get back on its feet even there.

[TheShadowCross]

Oh goody, yet another thread where someone feels entitled to tell other people what they should put their unpaid work into, before the other one even scrolled off the page :P

 

Look, the short version is: there is no "should". Unless you're paying someone a wage for that work, you have no business telling them what they should be doing. Everyone makes what they feel like doing in their free time. Sure, it's offered for download if you want it, but if not, go download something else, or nothing at all, or make your own.

 

1. I know there are pump shotguns. I said, a pump shotgun, with a sawn off stock and a shortened barrel. And maybe I'm just crazy, but I could swear I was typing this in a *request* forum. Not a demand forum. My request was to make a few weapons closer to the style of the ones put into, *this*, game. It's not like I'm telling people to stop remaking the M4 and Barret over and over. If they want to do that, whatever.

 

2. I haven't played fallout 1 or 2. And I'm willing to admit that despite people going crazy at the idea of it. I'm not playing either of those games however. I'm playing New Vegas. And based on the weapons in, New Vegas, I haven't seen anything extremely modern. Sure, there's high tec stuff like the miniguns and whatnot, but it's all rough and worn looking. And sure, this took place after a war in the 21st century, but that hasn't stopped the devs from adding WW2 era weapons. So why is it bad to suggest one more?

 

3. Yes, polishing weapons would be nice. But that isn't here. Every single cowboy repeater I find in the game, looks exactly the same, despite the condition. So I don't see the problem in having weapons, that fit the style of the existing ones.

 

4. That being the case, the gun runners still can't manage to manufacture guns that look any better than the ones I dig out of the dirt. Hell, they sell me a brand new Hunting Rifle, in perfect condition, and it's still held together with tape.

 

5. Maybe it's just me being crazy again, but I don't think New Vegas is about America taking over the world. I think it's about conflicting communities and factions trying to survive in the wasteland world.

 

You made an entire wall of text telling me I shouldn't want weapons that look like they have been used, unless I pay someone. I'm not demanding anyone make any of this. I just thought it was practical a suggestion in terms of weaponry, since most of the other weapons suggestions here seem to have come right from a Call of Duty game.

Edited May 29, 2011 by TheShadowCross

[llamaRCA]

You made an entire wall of text telling me I shouldn't want weapons that look like they have been used, unless I pay someone. I'm not demanding anyone make any of this. I just thought it was practical a suggestion in terms of weaponry, since most of the other weapons suggestions here seem to have come right from a Call of Duty game.

 

 

Modders make what they do because they enjoy doing it and then they share it with the community. You wouldn't, I hope, go to someone's house when you were invited for dinner and critique the dinner they serve you so ruthlessly and refuse to eat it so thoughtlessly telling them it was below your standards. Perhaps you would, but I doubt you'd be invited back.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting a mod that is different that the ones available. Asking for what you want is fine. Doing it diplomatically won't upset modders. Also, you might consider learning to mod yourself so you can get exactly what you want. That's what I did.

 

:) llama

[Moraelin]

Oh goody, yet another thread where someone feels entitled to tell other people what they should put their unpaid work into, before the other one even scrolled off the page :P

 

Look, the short version is: there is no "should". Unless you're paying someone a wage for that work, you have no business telling them what they should be doing. Everyone makes what they feel like doing in their free time. Sure, it's offered for download if you want it, but if not, go download something else, or nothing at all, or make your own.

 

1. I know there are pump shotguns. I said, a pump shotgun, with a sawn off stock and a shortened barrel. And maybe I'm just crazy, but I could swear I was typing this in a *request* forum. Not a demand forum. My request was to make a few weapons closer to the style of the ones put into, *this*, game. It's not like I'm telling people to stop remaking the M4 and Barret over and over. If they want to do that, whatever.

 

Actually, then maybe you should re-read it, because it came across exactly as telling people what they should be doing and that their stuff doesn't belong in the game. I'm sorry, I don't see how there can be a confusion between "please make X for me" and "Y doesn't belong in the game."

 

2. I haven't played fallout 1 or 2. And I'm willing to admit that despite people going crazy at the idea of it. I'm not playing either of those games however. I'm playing New Vegas. And based on the weapons in, New Vegas, I haven't seen anything extremely modern. Sure, there's high tec stuff like the miniguns and whatnot, but it's all rough and worn looking. And sure, this took place after a war in the 21st century, but that hasn't stopped the devs from adding WW2 era weapons. So why is it bad to suggest one more?

 

Politely requesting one more is one thing. Claiming that what other people are doing doesn't belong in the game, is a whole other issue. Especially when claiming that something doesn't belong in the game, it would be nice to make sure you know the canon before deciding such things. That is what decides whether something belongs in the game.

 

But even in the NV existing weaponry, since you complain about the .50 BMG Barret, you actually get a Barret .50 BMG rifle by the end of the game. Even in the existing NV weaponry, the "service rifle" of the NCR is basically an M-16. And then comes futuristic stuff like the 12.7mm SMGSo the world doesn't consist of only WW2 weapons. You just can't tell people that their stuff doesn't belong in the game if it's modern, when the game itself has plenty of similar stuff.

 

3. Yes, polishing weapons would be nice. But that isn't here. Every single cowboy repeater I find in the game, looks exactly the same, despite the condition. So I don't see the problem in having weapons, that fit the style of the existing ones.

 

4. That being the case, the gun runners still can't manage to manufacture guns that look any better than the ones I dig out of the dirt. Hell, they sell me a brand new Hunting Rifle, in perfect condition, and it's still held together with tape.

 

So, basically, you're saying... what? That because the game does something awfully and stupidly wrong, something doesn't belong in the game if it fits both realism and the canon better?

 

5. Maybe it's just me being crazy again, but I don't think New Vegas is about America taking over the world. I think it's about conflicting communities and factions trying to survive in the wasteland world.

 

And what does that have to do with my point 5?

 

You made an entire wall of text telling me I shouldn't want weapons that look like they have been used, unless I pay someone. I'm not demanding anyone make any of this. I just thought it was practical a suggestion in terms of weaponry, since most of the other weapons suggestions here seem to have come right from a Call of Duty game.

 

Nice dodge, but that's not it.

 

What you did is come and tell people that their stuff doesn't belong in the game and they shouldn't be doing it. That is what you can't do unless you paid someone a wage for it. If you paid anyone to make you a rusty weapon, and it came out shiny, sure, then you can complain. Otherwise it's basically none of your business. If you don't like it, don't download it. It's that simple.

 

If you want to request something then stick to requesting that something. As in "please can someone make me X and Y". Leave out the rants about what's wrong with what people are doing instead, and how their stuff doesn't belong in the game.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Moraelin

[MajikMoshos]

EDIT: I left this thread open in the tab for awhile, decided to reply to it and suddenly see there's some arguments here...

 

Anyway I'd like to think they (the fallout world) just didn't get over wood furnishings. So...they may very well have G36C's, but they'd have wood furnishing. THAT is the lore-friendly flavour. But, not everyone likes wood furnishing. It's kinda the seasoning, you could say, to the meal that is the weapon. Some people like pepper with their chips (aka Fries). Also, considering the war came and went in the 2077...I doubt most weapons that are modern now would still be considered 'modern' then.

 

Remember also that some technologies were never invented - they've still got chunky ass super computers and old-skool ibm's that run pureley in black & white (well, black and green) text with no colour or anything. TV and film was in black & white, no special effects or the like. Videogames were just text adventures. Instead of advancing with computers, they advanced with Nuclear power and the like - and this in turn is probably what allowed them to perfect energy weapons. There were no real microprocessors. Even the 'water chip' from the original fallout was a big chunky thing. So, certain peices of tech like the holosight, hearbeat monitors etc are very unlikley in the fallout world. Nightscopes and all that, sure. By the looks of things, the AK evolved into what became the Chinese assault rifle.

 

Now to show my neutralness, I'll say that what we aren't seeing enough of are the rarer weapons - Anyone remember the Calcio line of guns? Used in like...every 80's sci-fi ever? Damn.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/M105calico4143.jpg

There's a nice pic, with a walnut finish too. Helical magazine, so the reload probably would be the hardest part to animate.

 

Mateba auto-revolver?

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/MatebaAutoRevolver6in.jpg

Google some images of that, you'd find plenty of pics showing it off with a scope and compensator. Give it a more interesting cylinder and it's good. Reload animations could be based off vanilla revolvers anyway.

 

The Ruger also springs to mind.

My personal favorite the A556K

http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/d/d1/RugerAC556folder.jpg

 

And there's plenty more - loads of cool-looking, cult-classic weapons that were made well after WWII, til today. Alas they all get swamped over by the popular kids, and mainly because of games like COD.

 

If I was actually good at modelling and halfway-decent at texturing I would totally work on a 'Obscure Beauties' pack, update it every now and then, provide weapon mods. Alas if I try to I'd end up making some kind of turd...with wood furnishing.

Edited May 29, 2011 by MajikMoshos

[TheShadowCross]

What I said is "This is what everyone is doing, and I wish someone would deviate from that for a change". Maybe that bit at the end was pretty suggestive in that regard, but that was more me being aggrivated with what I see. And even in that last bit, I said there's nothing really wrong with it In other modding communities I follow, when someone makes a specific weapon, then that becomes that weapon. Where as here it seems like everyone is making the same thing over and over. I'll go back and reword some of it to show that everything I said was my opinion, and I'm not trying to state it as a fact.

 

And about this bit here

 

3. Yes, polishing weapons would be nice. But that isn't here. Every single cowboy repeater I find in the game, looks exactly the same, despite the condition. So I don't see the problem in having weapons, that fit the style of the existing ones.

 

4. That being the case, the gun runners still can't manage to manufacture guns that look any better than the ones I dig out of the dirt. Hell, they sell me a brand new Hunting Rifle, in perfect condition, and it's still held together with tape.

 

So, basically, you're saying... what? That because the game does something awfully and stupidly wrong, something doesn't belong in the game if it fits both realism and the canon better?

 

How are you going to critisize me saying modern weapons don't fit the game, when you're saying the way they handle weapon's textures is "awfully and stupidly wrong"? If the weapons appearence matched it's condition, that would equal at least 4 times the number of textures for every weapon. And given how buggy the game still is, I don't think they really wanted to do all that for a completely cosmetic affect that only a hand select few of players would even care about. So don't act like a saint when you just did exactly what you said I shouldn't do. I'm not calling the modern weapons "awfully and stupidly wrong". I mearly said I don't think they fit the style that the base game weapons established, *as* the weapons of the base game.

[Moraelin]

@MajikMoshos:

Well, you're kinda in the same boat with some of those mods, then. You have to bear in mind though that it's not just that people like COD and Stalker, but some of those weapons are basically ported from COD and Stalker and sometimes mods for them. Not everyone can make a good mesh, or a mesh at all, so between porting an M-16 and making a new Ruger mesh, yeah, not everyone can actually do the latter. Everyone contributes what they can, and sometimes that can mean just a retexture of the M-16 mesh in the game, or a port of someone else's AK-47 mesh for some other game.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Moraelin

[Moraelin]

How are you going to critisize me saying modern weapons don't fit the game, when you're saying the way they handle weapon's textures is "awfully and stupidly wrong"? If the weapons appearence matched it's condition, that would equal at least 4 times the number of textures for every weapon. And given how buggy the game still is, I don't think they really wanted to do all that for a completely cosmetic affect that only a hand select few of players would even care about. So don't act like a saint when you just did exactly what you said I shouldn't do. I'm not calling the modern weapons "awfully and stupidly wrong". I mearly said I don't think they fit the style that the base game weapons established, *as* the weapons of the base game.

 

BS. I don't recall telling anyone what to do with their work in their spare time. If Fallout NV was a free mod, I wouldn't feel entitled to criticize it either. And even so, you don't see me starting new threads about what they should be doing instead. So, you know, get some basic comprehension skills and try again. Seriously.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Moraelin

[TheShadowCross]

This thread wasn't about what people should and shouldn't do. That's what you fail to see. It's just what I wish someone among the modders would do for a change.