Nephilim: Death Sequence Poll

[JetSteele]

***​Poll Closed***

 

***This poll is specifically for those who play with the race mod since it will affect them, however even if you don't I'm interested in if you did what would you prefer.***

 

Hey everyone,

 

As people who have played my Nephilim mod know, the Nephilim are a half angel race (I won't go into too much detail as this poll has to do with very specific functions of the race; if you want details go check out the mod page) who has special spells, custom werewolf transformation, custom vampirism and a custom death sequence.

 

However recently a user has said that the death sequence has no weight to it (you get a 30 minute debuff to health). You have to reclaim your gear from your body however there is no other limiting factors about the death; when I first came out with the death sequence and asked people in the posts section of the mod page how they would feel about losing there gear (it was the original idea) I had 6 people respond negatively towards the idea and no positive (sure, it would be a good penalty) perspective.

 

I would like to get a proper response to the idea since it seems that some people don't like the death in the state it's in (not enough weight to it).

 

I estimate that there will be 2 main parties:

1- The casual players (that don't want a harsh penalty)

2- The hardcore/realism players (that want something meaningful as a punishment for death)

 

I just want to know which party contains the most amount of players, which is why even if you don't use this mod I would still recommend you take the poll since it would help me see how people see playing their game and what they would prefer.

 

The results of this poll will influence my decision about what to do with the death sequence in Nephilim.

[stormchaserelite]

The lose the gear part is a bit harsh but perhaps hold it hostage until you get a number of fragments then you could reclaim your gear. You may also add a negative effect until a number of shards are collected. Such as slower mana regen, added weaknesses or power restrictions. I think the best option would to be to remove most race powers or add weaknesses until you collect 20 or so fragments. A recommendation, You could make the race much weaker and restrict more powers early on and require fragments to upgrade things like the blade and gain flight. It seems kind of game breaking to be this powerful early on.

[Darcaan2012]

The tricky part here is making death meaningful without driving people to reload like they usually do. Something that irrecoverably weakens the character would make me reload. Skyrim's prison system uses skill atrophy, meaning you basically lose some playtime. Tossing an idea out, how about losing access to some of your angelic powers for a time? The more expensive the abilities taking longer to come back. Think of it as being grounded. Or perhaps a limit to how often you can die without... Reloading? Nah, skip that one.

 

To make the death meaningful, you would have to accomplish something through it. Completing a miniquest or something that moves the character forward a bit. Not just slapping on a penalty.

[RestitutorOrbix]

I used to love this mod and endorsed it a very long time ago, but the new version (6.60) has become exasperating. I started a new Nephilim character and was only able to kill 6 wolves between the Helgen exit and Whiterun. Any time I get killed (as by the giant right outside Whiterun), I cannot reclaim any gear due to a total lack of "Grace Fragments". Apparently nonhuman animals don't count for these fragments, so I totally lose all my gear every time.

 

The idea that a semidivine being is under such grievous disadvantage compared to the lowliest mortal is ironic. All you are accomplishing is making people just reload a previous save game rather than go through the death thing.

 

Like a previous poster, I use an alternative start mod (The Hall of Beginnings) that has a much better death alternative, and I was wondering if you could make it compatible so I could avoid all this hassle?

 

Another possibility would be to give a new character a beginning supply of grace fragments to start so as not to be caught in any impossible situations.

 

P.S.: Framing the difference between playing styles as between "casual" and presumably more serious players is a very biased way to get a diversity of opinions. You should be a little more balanced in your outlook on this matter or you will only hear from people that already agree with you.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Restutitor Orbis

[Darcaan2012]

It's mentioned in a rather obscure part of the online documentation that Nephilim gain grace fragments from killing Men, Mer, Argonians, and Khajiit. Dark souls, in other words. This really should be in the readme file, if not the main page.

 

Mortals reload.

 

Nephilim who piss of Faralda also reload.

 

Edit: The Category of "Dark Souls" also includes the ghosts of the listed races. Basically anything that fits in a black soul gem. I can confirm that destroying human ghosts with Angel Blades gives you grace points. ...Wait. Vampires also have human souls. Dawnguard, here I come!

Edited March 21, 2016 by Darcaan2012

[RestitutorOrbix]

My comment was not questioning the intellectual integrity of the rationale behind the grace fragments, but the playability of the race at startup. That is why I suggested that an initial allocation of grace fragments should tide one through until one has accumulated sufficient extra points by killing humanoid beings.

 

Alternatively, if one gets stuck as I did, is there a console command one can use to get some grace fragments in a hurry?

[Darcaan2012]

So the Nephilim death sequence is harsher than the death alternatives from another mod you're using. I was surprised that you compared the reincarnation sequence as unfavorable to what happens to ordinary mortals; getting brutally killed and staying dead or reloading. I don't use that mod, so I won't comment further on the comparison. Have you tried adjusting the load order so the other mod comes later?

 

Out of curiosity, what happens that you die so early in the game? Are your difficulty settings high, or are you not avoiding giants while low level?

 

---

 

Changing track here, another death alternative is your spirit having to struggle its way out of some underworld, regaining corporeality and gear along the way and possibly learning more about your origins and powers. Maybe gain some items, grace fragments, or companions along the way. Make death an adventure.

[RestitutorOrbix]

"The Hall of Beginnings" can be harsh as well and also has a sequence in which you have to wander the world as a ghost to regain your corporeality. This death sequence is quite involved as well. I wasn't referring to harshness of penalties, per se. Anyway, that mod cannot be placed higher than Nephilim as Nephilim is really an esm (according to NMM) even if it bears the esp suffix.

 

As you are probably aware, the beginning of the game has a giant right outside Whiterun that you can help the Companions to slay. My new Nephila (the proper singular of Nephilim) character tried to do so and got herself killed in the attempt, losing all her gear and was unable to retrieve it as she had not killed any humanoids so far in the game. She has now lost some really expensive gear that she really worked hard to obtain. Although you can just say "too bad", I am suggesting that this early vulnerability might be a design flaw in the mod that could be easily corrected.

 

I know I can just reload the game and not get killed by the giant, but I want to play this mod "legit" and explore how it works. I am simply trying to help improve this mod, which is one that I really like playing.

 

Another similar limitation is the relatively low power of the Angelic Sword, attributable to the fact that it cannot be improved at the grinding wheel. I always put a lot of points into Smithing so that I can buff up my weapons and armor, but this cannot be done with a weapon that is summonable, and you cannot get any Grace Fragments by using a regular sword. My character now has several relatively decent (but not OP) weapons, but cannot use them and get anywhere in her "career" as a Nephila.

 

So, another solution might be to make the Angelic Sword a physical weapon that can be crafted and sharpened, proportional to one's Smithing skill, and still unique to the Nephilim, being only wieldable by and useful to them. That is one other possible solution that might not be too lore-breaking to implement.

 

Again, I am just brainstorming ideas in an attempt to be helpful. I am not bitching about the mod, as I endorsed it a long time ago, and already said that I really loved playing. I am just providing feedback on the new death and reincarnation system in response to the mod author's solicitation to that effect. No disrespect intended or implied.

[Darcaan2012]

Wow. I can't get anywhere near that giant before Aella sends it to oblivion. The best I can do is hit it with an arrow so she doesn't look down on me.

 

For upgrading the angelic sword: It seems to be heavily based off the bound weapons, and I suspect it can be upgraded with the same feats.

I have similar frustrations with the limitations on upgrading. I kind of wish we could craft a weapon, stash it in our phylactery, and say "this is the angelic weapon I want to summon."

[RestitutorOrbix]

Don't feel bad: my own character had her ass handed to her on a platter by that same giant!