So did the developers made a profit out of the PC game?

[Balakirev]

@Balakirev

Well, here it is from Todd Howard.

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/371656-bethesda-would-like-to-see-mods-happen-for-consoles/

 

I will dig up the other interviews if you still need them. I've never interviewed Todd Howard, so I can't vouch for how reliable he is pre-launch. You are in a better position to know. I am positive he knows the figures, and am not sure why they would lie about it. I believe he is referring to paying customers there, but perhaps I am wrong. If he is referring to players who paid for the game, that's a fairly believable ratio these days. See the Tweak Guides article for a fuller and more nuanced picture.

 

Thanks for the link. I'll be frank: that comment of Howard blows me away. I'm sure Pete Hines must have placed a few extra indents in his nice antique wooden desk from head-bashing it when that was published. I'm also curious whether that figure is accurate, but whether it is or not, Bethsoft will never say.

 

It remains to their advantage to support modding and a PC version so long as independent modding of their games cannot be legally done on consoles, even if the PC version only broke even.

 

Let's be clear about this: Bethsoft as a company was built on making its money on the PC. Their first offices had a few dozens workers, and the owner (a very strange attorney, who spent much of our interview before speaking to the devs cursing out the then-governor of Maryland) boasted about hiring good programmers at wages (and a lack of benefits packages) he could pay in Southeast Asia.

 

By the time of Morrowind's release, they were over quadruple the size, and their benefits/wages were quite good compared to what appears to be the norm. (Not that I could do a survey; but I have friends working at several of the companies, so I find out what I can.)

 

My only point is that you don't grow that large, while also spending tons producing terrible selling games like Redguard, unless your main titles are selling very well. And on the PC, they certainly were.

 

If I were them, I'd be watching the modding scene closely because it provides incredibly detailed free market research. I suspect they do keep an eye on it.

 

I agree completely. As several modders have caustically pointed out, some of the most downloaded mods and mod categories in Morrowind were included as Oblivion "features," such as player-owned houses. But I don't think there's any evidence that the PC sales are as small a part of Bethsoft's business as that single Howard interview makes out. Granted, Bethsoft hit the Xbox market at just the right time, and Hines orchestrated a masterful PR campaign--still, if the Morrowind numbers necessary to turn a small fortune are simply kept the same for Oblivion, and then you factor in 9x that on the Xbox--it just seems, well...curious.

 

I would not be remotely surprised if someday soon there is a way to monetize independant mods for cross-platform use, at which point Sony and Microsoft would probably be eager to fulfill Bethesda's desire to see mods happen for consoles. Frankly, I'm amazed that there is nothing like Apple's Apps Store already in the works, but admittedly negotiating all the layers of licensing arrangements would be hellish.

 

As I'm sure you know, the genius of Apple--also it's prime limitation--was that Jobs set it up so all vertical aspects of the business were under proprietary ownership. If all the major console folks set down to scope out cross-platforming I'm sure they could work something out, just as you suggest, but I suspect they're wondering what would be in it for them, given the resources necessary to make it work. Until then, well, diversity will rule.

 

think your number for unique mods may be out of date. At TesNexus, as of this morning (June 12, 2011), we have 23,027 Oblivion Mods in our database, and only 2175 for Morrowind.

 

Bben, does that 23,027 figure include in its tabulation all versions of each mod that are online here, or just one version for each mod? Because I've seen (and downloaded, and still run) quite a lot of TES Nexus-based mods that include 5 or more versions online--some successive, some for different arrangements of mods--and some mods are divided in multiple packages for ease. As I wrote above, if you include multiple downloads and split ones, the mod number rapidly inflates.

 

The 8000+ number for Morrowind has been floating around the community for some time, and I've seen a few people state it as a tally of several US and European sites. Obviously, you are welcome to disagree.

 

And in case you didn't know, The site started out as a popular source for Morrowind...

 

I did know, and I started out my "relationship" with Bethsoft interviewing the development team while they were working on Arena. I still have memories of Todd trying to convince me in my second interview how wonderful Daggerfall would be based on the quality of the game's sunsets. :D Doesn't make me an authority, just a guy with some odd experiences, but did you infer from my remarks above something negative about TES Nexus' past? Because if so, you're mistaken.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Balakirev

[Telyn]

Balakirev, I would never dispute that the PC made a lot of money for them in the past. What I am suggesting is that the past is not the present. I don't know if you read the Tweak Guides article or not, but the reason I linked that particular one is that it references verifiable data, and the author is both an economist and a gamer.

 

As I mentioned before, that Todd Howard remark wasn't an isolated instance. There are other interviews in which Howard or someone else from Bethesda mentions that consoles are their main audience, but at least Bethesda is not abandoning the PC entirely like Rockstar seems to be doing with LA Noire. It would be nice if this site could get a Bethesda interview. I'd be very surprised if they'd turn down that opportunity, given the huge membership here.

 

I said the licensing for an AppStore-like entity would be hellish primarily because games often use third-party material and those licenses would have to be renegotiated as well before it could happen. Valve might be able to pull off coordinating something like that.

 

Todd Howard talks about PC support, differences between the PC and console versions, says the Xbox is his preferred platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sw_1P2dvWU

 

 

[Satangel]

Balakirev, I would never dispute that the PC made a lot of money for them in the past. What I am suggesting is that the past is not the present. I don't know if you read the Tweak Guides article or not, but the reason I linked that particular one is that it references verifiable data, and the author is both an economist and a gamer.

 

As I mentioned before, that Todd Howard remark wasn't an isolated instance. There are other interviews in which Howard or someone else from Bethesda mentions that consoles are their main audience, but at least Bethesda is not abandoning the PC entirely like Rockstar seems to be doing with LA Noire. It would be nice if this site could get a Bethesda interview. I'd be very surprised if they'd turn down that opportunity, given the huge membership here.

 

I said the licensing for an AppStore-like entity would be hellish primarily because games often use third-party material and those licenses would have to be renegotiated as well before it could happen. Valve might be able to pull off coordinating something like that.

 

Todd Howard talks about PC support, differences between the PC and console versions, says the Xbox is his preferred platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sw_1P2dvWU

 

That's indeed the case, it's such a shame that PC users don't get to enjoy RDR and LA Noire. Such a damn shame.... I really dislike Rockstar for that, hopefully they soon port those games over (especially RDR).

[bben46]

@Balakirev

Bben, does that 23,027 figure include in its tabulation all versions of each mod that are online here, or just one version for each mod? Because I've seen (and downloaded, and still run) quite a lot of TES Nexus-based mods that include 5 or more versions online--some successive, some for different arrangements of mods--and some mods are divided in multiple packages for ease. As I wrote above, if you include multiple downloads and split ones, the mod number rapidly inflates.

 

The 8000+ number for Morrowind has been floating around the community for some time, and I've seen a few people state it as a tally of several US and European sites. Obviously, you are welcome to disagree.

 

As I am not positive on the precise way that the Oblivion mods are tabulated, I can only say that we do have many more than 6000 unique mods available on just this one site. And My own guess is that when an author includes split downloads and multiple versions or other multiple files they are only counted as one mod. For example, so far this morning we have had 11 new files uploaded, and 10 more older files updated - ONLY the 11 new ones were added to the total Mod count. Several of the 11 new mods have multiple files included, but were only counted as One mod. Some of the updated mods have added a file, but they were not included in the new total. And if a mod is removed, that mod is subtracted from the total.

 

That indicates (not proves) that we do indeed have 23,040 unique Mods (as of this morning) - several were added yesterday after I gave the current count. If you are interested our daily count resets at GMT zero. (midnight, Greenwich Mean Time)

 

I'm not disagreeing with the 8000 Morrowind mod count so much as thinking that if the Oblivion count is so far off, It may be also. Does this tally of multiple sites include duplicates that may be found on more than one site? And if so, then why is the Oblivion count so low? Again, a guess - Different methods were used to count the mods.

[NocturneNight]

Well, I for one could not imagine playing neither Morrowind or Oblivion without mods. One of the main attractions for me with these games is that if I see something I don't like, I can change it. These games are simply amazing because they allow the player to customize their game to better suit their personal tastes; you can't do that on consoles (yet). As such, I stay away from the console-versions and honestly can't imagine why anyone would prefer those... That 90% of their playerbase belongs on consoles is simply the wierdest thing I've ever read and I'd advice you to take that number with a grain of salt. :P

[Balakirev]

Balakirev, I would never dispute that the PC made a lot of money for them in the past. What I am suggesting is that the past is not the present. I don't know if you read the Tweak Guides article or not, but the reason I linked that particular one is that it references verifiable data, and the author is both an economist and a gamer.

 

Telyn, the Tweak Guides link says nothing about Oblivion's sales for the PC or the console markets. It discusses piracy in admirable depth, but it doesn't even refer to Oblivion, save in comparing it to the 1980s game, Faery Tale Adventure.

 

As I mentioned before, that Todd Howard remark wasn't an isolated instance.

 

I would still like to see some figures. Howard isn't in marketing or accounting, and prefers consoles. I can't find anything on the Web agreeing to his figure--9 times the sales for the console version of Oblivion, vs the PC--that doesn't simply go back to what he says. I only want some reasonable evidence before I agree to its accuracy. That's certainly not too much to be asked, given that I'm being told one of the best-selling PC series suddenly develops a console following 9 times its PC audience in one game. Is such a thing possible? Certainly. I just find it unlikely, and want some proof before I accept it.

 

As I am not positive on the precise way that the Oblivion mods are tabulated, I can only say that we do have many more than 6000 unique mods available on just this one site. And My own guess is that when an author includes split downloads and multiple versions or other multiple files they are only counted as one mod. For example, so far this morning we have had 11 new files uploaded, and 10 more older files updated - ONLY the 11 new ones were added to the total Mod count. Several of the 11 new mods have multiple files included, but were only counted as One mod.

 

You have a point, bben. Since TES Nexus counts edited mods as separate from new ones, I only see two problems in tabulation. One is the relatively significant number of new mods that are just placeholders or works-in-progress, or somebody sticking a Ring of Supreme Godhood near a rock--arguably a mod, but only just. The other issue arises with people who believe every incremented version of their XYZ mod deserves a new mod page. I see quite a few of these, but definitely not enough to offset the impressive, growing number of Oblivion mods.

 

I think from now on I'll just say "Oblivion has way over 10,000 mods, and according to some estimates, over 20,000," and let it go at that. It's easily the largest and healthiest mod community around, and TES Nexus is one very important part of it.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Balakirev

[bben46]

@Balakirev

I only see two problems in tabulation. One is the relatively significant number of new mods that are just placeholders or works-in-progress, or somebody sticking a Ring of Supreme Godhood near a rock--arguably a mod, but only just. The other issue arises with people who believe every incremented version of their XYZ mod deserves a new mod page. I see quite a few of these, but definitely not enough to offset the impressive, growing number of Oblivion mods.

 

You actually listed 3 points. :tongue: #2 is a valid point, although we do request that they don't create a new one for an update, some do anyway. However, #1a we do remove empty WIP and placeholder mods from our database and total mod count as soon as we find them. We typically allow an author 24 hours to post a mod before removing an empty.That is for those who are having problems actually uploading the mod. A WIP with a valid beta version is a mod. If you see any empty files (those with valid mirrors are OK) please click on the report button and let us know and they will be removed.

 

As for #1b, as you say, even though they are very simple mods, they are mods, and deserve to be counted as such. Many of those are a beginners first foray into making mods, and also for some, their last. But others become hooked on making mods and do go on to make better mods. By encouraging all beginners, we hope to get a few masters later. Everyone has to start somewhere. :thumbsup:

 

 

[Telyn]

Balakirev, the article is useful in painting the overall state of gaming business economics and trends. You are correct, there are no specific figures for Oblivion, however, there is information which makes Howard's comment seem not too outlandish.

[Satangel]

So, to keep it short, YES the developers definitely made a nice profit out of PC OBlivion.