Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36179015. #36184145, #36187930, #36192500, #36192925, #36198740, #36201355, #36205410, #36206150 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

I see a lot of garbage here from kiddies that just want the game to work the way they demand the game to work and have never done any legitimate testing in their life. BETA testing is NOT the playable game and is NOT intended to be the playable game. It is for TESTING purposes only.

 

If you don't want to help test the BETA survival mode, then please just disable beta updates on Steam.

 

If you insist on playing the beta with mods ( and figure out how) and it crashes - please don't bother to whine because they will just laugh at you for being so dumb as to think a beta test version was going to work as well as a released game.

 

IF you throw in a bunch or random variables (mods) then the test is invalid - that means you wasted hours of testing time that will be tossed as useless. Meaning that instead of the beta lasting 2 or 3 weeks it takes them 3 months to filter through the garbage from people that demand the test allow them to use mods. The intent of the beta test is to get a useful analysis of what really needs fixing. And if you throw in mods - or the quick fixes that the console allows the data is no longer useful, but just garbage.

 

The sooner they get the REAL data, untainted by random mods and quickie console fixes that allow you to keep playing instead of stopping and submitting a useful bug report the sooner they will release the actual survival mode update. :thumbsup:

hivKORN wrote: By your words, i hope they will fix problems from main game too and not only the survival changes! ;D

printerkop wrote: true, but since launch day there are a bunch of bugs in the game, which i adressed at the bug submitting page at Bethesda with a lot of extra information on my rig and the circumstances in which they occur in and screenshots and as much technical information i could give, i even know what the problems are, script errors and shader errors, and they haven't either bothered to fix them to this date, so how are we supposed to test a survival BETA if all the bugs i encountered haven't been fixed yet and still occur to this date ?

I develop games myself, and atleast half of the bugs i encountered must be easy to fix for an entire team of developers, but they just don't fix them.

Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on.

I agree that mods should not be applied to a BETA test, but making a BETA before all the other problems are fixed is just unwise.

Zzyxzz wrote: "Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on."

Yep, thats how it works today. To be very honest. They released the eat/drink/sleep feature, but its so f*#@ing bad. It's not even close to realism. Don't say, but it's beta. They already had this feature in NV and they weren't able to just carry it over. I call that very incompetent. Also they keep adding things in beta, which is also not the purpose of a beta. A beta is feature complete and is for testing the system. What they run is an alpha

Yes, people who want to test with mods... no words... but i also don't believe that they get any valueable feedback. I have looked into the beta thread. It's a mess.
Now you can argue about disabling the console, because you can hotload with console, which would destroy their plan. But disabling is also dumb because there is already a way to load mods (surprise surprise).

With a console we would be able to test their system even better, because we can tweak values, find the best values and report them.

And saving with sleeping... srsly... i lost faith in them. Fallout 4 is only playable in a realistic way with mods from this beautiful modding community. We can just hope for a solid game frame, but thats it

Kkatman wrote: I originally signed up for the Beta because there are bugs in the base game that the beta fixes. Having opted out of the Beta now that it disables mods, I find myself struggling with the same broken features that I joined the beta to solve... none of the fixes that the beta has implemented have been carried over into the proper game.

printerkop wrote: all the bugs i've seen are still there in the BETA, LOD loading issues up close, shaders messing up completely giving a lot of meshes rainbow colored noise patterns, scripted errors that result in messed up gameplay, collision problems are plentyful.. and so on..

They should fix that before adding new stuff imo.

Eruadur wrote: @printerkop

nvm

printerkop wrote: No, one should never learn from his mistakes, you're right.

GrypNWryp wrote: @printerkop

"No, one should never learn from his mistakes, you're right."

Says the guy who (apparently) thought Fallout 4's issues would be different from previous installments to the series.

reply's the guy who likes trolling and being an ass.

[jbMnemonic]

In response to post #36176290. #36185910, #36213820 are all replies on the same post.

Sebastianus wrote: I really like most of those changes, but I'm not going to participate in this beta.

1. Mods I have literally double the FPS count, eliminate stuttering and most other significant bugs that Bethesda never seemed to care about for a decade (only two gamebreakers I can't get rid off: hotkey switching and texture unloading).
2. Lack of fast travel is a no-go. There is a line between immersion "for fun" and utter annoyance. I'm not willing to waste 10+ minutes to get to that damned settlement, which can't defend itself with 200+ defense and 3 meter tall wall without my help.
3. Saving got gimped way too hard. This is just another annoyance, not immersion. Not to mention that since the previous patch I occassionally get completely random CTDs.

In other words, I'll wait till the "official" update and mods that deal with the unnecessary annoyance.

Snowskeeper wrote: Re: 1, Bethesda needs to be able to know, for certain, which problems are caused by the changes to the base game in Survival mode. Mods, even optimization mods, make that more difficult to verify without having access to all of your information.
Re: 2, I haven't fast-travelled in Fallout 4 as of yet. It's a small map, relatively speaking, and there's enough going on in it that I never felt bored during my wanderings. That said, I also usually have an audiobook or podcast on in the background, so that's probably making me a little more tolerant of it.
I don't know what you mean about save gimping. I'll have to find a more complete version of the change log.

EDIT: Yeah, save gimping is bad; hopefully they change that.

Sebastianus wrote: I'm not stupid.
I can see the reason behind disabling mods in a beta update, but that's also a major reason I'm not willing to get it.
Plus, they are still to clean up after their last stunt with mod tampering, so I'm not holding my breath here.
On the other hand so far all "beta" updates went "official" without any changes.

The map is cramped to the point navigating it (which doesn't have a "search" function) is terribadly awful.
Finding anything in the Boston's "downtown" is pretty much impossible without comparing Pipboy with a location's image from the wikia.
Plus there is literally nothing worth of value, except for XP for re-visiting places and killing the same enemies over and over again.

Hear, hear !!! - I second your opinion - Bethesda, please take note. I can still only play in Power armour as my pipboy is disabled despite having tried every single post's solution available everywhere, more than once, in fact 10's of times. :(:(:( Edited April 1, 2016 by jbMnemonic

[shadowthh]

In response to post #36169075. #36188540 is also a reply to the same post.

madwolf2006 wrote: hi
if you are think about testing the Beta and you have mods installed then i recommend that you use a program like 7zip to compress a backup of the game folder and a backup of
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Fallout4 and C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\Fallout4

if you are going to mod the game or test the Beta i recommend make a compress backup of the clean game folder

imho it makes sense to disable mods in the Beta to have the game running in a known state to make sure that bugs are not getting added by mods or mods are not hiding bugs that you may have gotten if you had a clean game

imho it is a bit annoying the console being disabled there's probably a reason we may not know the reason but there's probably is a reason

rotwhip wrote: the reason is that it makes people go to bethesda for help, if something can be fixed by a single command line, and is never reported to bethesda, it wont get fixed.

isolating variables.

a moderator said on there forums that disabling the console was a feature
https://community.bethesda.net/thread/2952 Edited April 1, 2016 by shadowthh

[jbMnemonic]

In response to post #36169075. #36188540, #36214260 are all replies on the same post.

madwolf2006 wrote: hi
if you are think about testing the Beta and you have mods installed then i recommend that you use a program like 7zip to compress a backup of the game folder and a backup of
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Fallout4 and C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\Fallout4

if you are going to mod the game or test the Beta i recommend make a compress backup of the clean game folder

imho it makes sense to disable mods in the Beta to have the game running in a known state to make sure that bugs are not getting added by mods or mods are not hiding bugs that you may have gotten if you had a clean game

imho it is a bit annoying the console being disabled there's probably a reason we may not know the reason but there's probably is a reason

rotwhip wrote: the reason is that it makes people go to bethesda for help, if something can be fixed by a single command line, and is never reported to bethesda, it wont get fixed.

isolating variables.

shadowthh wrote: a moderator said on there forums that disabling the console was a feature
https://community.bethesda.net/thread/2952

Hi, no offense but something sounds not right about your post, why should I worry about anything if I don't care about survival mode but do like plenty of mods and they are working just fine.

[popcorn71]

In response to post #36202240. #36212170 is also a reply to the same post.

bben46 wrote:

Here's your hat, take your pick, there are several styles to choose from.

. http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww77/Tuarisbucket/Smileys/tinfoil.gif

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/xdrcx/afdbsmiley.gif

 

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/thewickedchild/Tin_foil_hat___Updated_by_Mirz123.gif

Sepherose wrote: That's a bit rude. People are concerned because things are happening very differently than before and Bethesda are being pretty dodgy about the changes. It's entirely reasonable to be concerned about it. Beyond that, so far, every change that has made it harder to activate mods in previous Beta patches has remained once they released. That in and of itself is a reason to be alarmed, as they have never taken action like that before.

Not only is that a bit rude, I find it rather unbecoming of a moderator. I didn't spend my hard earned money on a lifetime premium membership to see a moderator slinging insults at their own members...How exactly can people be confident that you can be impartial when you are acting like just another troll??? Edited April 1, 2016 by popcorn71

[Deleted631007User]

From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

 

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

 

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

[Scynix]

In response to post #36176290. #36185910, #36213820, #36214055 are all replies on the same post.

Sebastianus wrote: I really like most of those changes, but I'm not going to participate in this beta.

1. Mods I have literally double the FPS count, eliminate stuttering and most other significant bugs that Bethesda never seemed to care about for a decade (only two gamebreakers I can't get rid off: hotkey switching and texture unloading).
2. Lack of fast travel is a no-go. There is a line between immersion "for fun" and utter annoyance. I'm not willing to waste 10+ minutes to get to that damned settlement, which can't defend itself with 200+ defense and 3 meter tall wall without my help.
3. Saving got gimped way too hard. This is just another annoyance, not immersion. Not to mention that since the previous patch I occassionally get completely random CTDs.

In other words, I'll wait till the "official" update and mods that deal with the unnecessary annoyance.

Snowskeeper wrote: Re: 1, Bethesda needs to be able to know, for certain, which problems are caused by the changes to the base game in Survival mode. Mods, even optimization mods, make that more difficult to verify without having access to all of your information.
Re: 2, I haven't fast-travelled in Fallout 4 as of yet. It's a small map, relatively speaking, and there's enough going on in it that I never felt bored during my wanderings. That said, I also usually have an audiobook or podcast on in the background, so that's probably making me a little more tolerant of it.
I don't know what you mean about save gimping. I'll have to find a more complete version of the change log.

EDIT: Yeah, save gimping is bad; hopefully they change that.

Sebastianus wrote: I'm not stupid.
I can see the reason behind disabling mods in a beta update, but that's also a major reason I'm not willing to get it.
Plus, they are still to clean up after their last stunt with mod tampering, so I'm not holding my breath here.
On the other hand so far all "beta" updates went "official" without any changes.

The map is cramped to the point navigating it (which doesn't have a "search" function) is terribadly awful.
Finding anything in the Boston's "downtown" is pretty much impossible without comparing Pipboy with a location's image from the wikia.
Plus there is literally nothing worth of value, except for XP for re-visiting places and killing the same enemies over and over again.

jbMnemonic wrote: Hear, hear !!! - I second your opinion - Bethesda, please take note. I can still only play in Power armour as my pipboy is disabled despite having tried every single post's solution available everywhere, more than once, in fact 10's of times. :(:(:(

What was the point of this post? Who cares why you aren't going to use it?

I like both of the things you don't like.

Disabling fast travel gives alternate travel methods like the vertibird signal an actual purpose.

Forcing saves to be at static sleep locations forces players to be more careful about decisions, which in turn makes the speech checks more legitimate. If I fail a speech check I have to reload all the way back at whatever bed I was at last time if I want to try again.

See what I did there? I listed reasons its good. Does anyone care? No. :D

[CaptoftheAxe]

In response to post #36213350. #36213465, #36213745 are all replies on the same post.

jbMnemonic wrote: Who cares about survival mode, Bethesda games are about choice, hope they stop taking choice away as that will make it one of the many with no differentiation. Game difficulty choice should be like a constitution, never to be tampered with, if you want it, then select it in difficulty mode, if not you should not be hampered in any way.

This means only survival mode players must be affected by survival mode related issues, otherwise it is not BETA, then its ALPHA.

If the article on this page at the top does mean I don't have to unistall my mods if I don't play survival mode, it would be helpful if they say so - I've set my steam update options to alway keep my game up to date.

Just my 1 penny.

:)

Sepherose wrote: A lot of people care about survival more. It's still a choice to use it or not, and simply adding survival mode took away no one's options.

jbMnemonic wrote: Edited my post - please see above.

I agree with what you say, The problem I'm having is that all my saves are based on the last fallout 4 Beta, when I tried to opt out of the new one, Steam reloads just the basic fallout 4 game, (with all the bugs)..

When I try to load my saved games I get a message telling me that my saves are based on a later version of the game, and tells me to update to latest version, (the new beta).. I do that and cant use any on my mods, even changing the difficulty back to normal makes no difference..

So I have no choice if I want to continue playing either I start a fresh game, and throw away a almost finished game, 460+hours of play, all my settlements looking good, supply lines Etc.. or wait till God knows when the beta is finished and hope alls ok...

May I add I have no interest in playing the survival mode, just finishing the game. Edited April 1, 2016 by CaptoftheAxe

[Deleted631007User]

In response to post #36176290. #36185910, #36213820, #36214055, #36223055 are all replies on the same post.

Sebastianus wrote: I really like most of those changes, but I'm not going to participate in this beta.

1. Mods I have literally double the FPS count, eliminate stuttering and most other significant bugs that Bethesda never seemed to care about for a decade (only two gamebreakers I can't get rid off: hotkey switching and texture unloading).
2. Lack of fast travel is a no-go. There is a line between immersion "for fun" and utter annoyance. I'm not willing to waste 10+ minutes to get to that damned settlement, which can't defend itself with 200+ defense and 3 meter tall wall without my help.
3. Saving got gimped way too hard. This is just another annoyance, not immersion. Not to mention that since the previous patch I occassionally get completely random CTDs.

In other words, I'll wait till the "official" update and mods that deal with the unnecessary annoyance.

Snowskeeper wrote: Re: 1, Bethesda needs to be able to know, for certain, which problems are caused by the changes to the base game in Survival mode. Mods, even optimization mods, make that more difficult to verify without having access to all of your information.
Re: 2, I haven't fast-travelled in Fallout 4 as of yet. It's a small map, relatively speaking, and there's enough going on in it that I never felt bored during my wanderings. That said, I also usually have an audiobook or podcast on in the background, so that's probably making me a little more tolerant of it.
I don't know what you mean about save gimping. I'll have to find a more complete version of the change log.

EDIT: Yeah, save gimping is bad; hopefully they change that.

Sebastianus wrote: I'm not stupid.
I can see the reason behind disabling mods in a beta update, but that's also a major reason I'm not willing to get it.
Plus, they are still to clean up after their last stunt with mod tampering, so I'm not holding my breath here.
On the other hand so far all "beta" updates went "official" without any changes.

The map is cramped to the point navigating it (which doesn't have a "search" function) is terribadly awful.
Finding anything in the Boston's "downtown" is pretty much impossible without comparing Pipboy with a location's image from the wikia.
Plus there is literally nothing worth of value, except for XP for re-visiting places and killing the same enemies over and over again.

jbMnemonic wrote: Hear, hear !!! - I second your opinion - Bethesda, please take note. I can still only play in Power armour as my pipboy is disabled despite having tried every single post's solution available everywhere, more than once, in fact 10's of times. :(:(:(

Scynix wrote: What was the point of this post? Who cares why you aren't going to use it?

I like both of the things you don't like.

Disabling fast travel gives alternate travel methods like the vertibird signal an actual purpose.

Forcing saves to be at static sleep locations forces players to be more careful about decisions, which in turn makes the speech checks more legitimate. If I fail a speech check I have to reload all the way back at whatever bed I was at last time if I want to try again.

See what I did there? I listed reasons its good. Does anyone care? No. :D

So basically you're saying that you don't want to be allowed to save scum because you cannot trust yourself not to do it? That's your problem, stop projecting your issues onto everyone else. You can also actively make the decision not to fast travel, why take it away from other people? Because you can't trust yourself not to use it either?

Also don't even bring up vertibirds as a good alternative to fast travel, that suggests that the player would only ever side with the brotherhood, and with as limited as players decisions already are in Fallout 4, basically FORCING you to choose the same side just to get a major benefit is just stupidly limiting.

Do you even understand that the survival mode is not just about locking you out of saves and fast traveling? There's features in there that many people have wanted for long time without ever wanting limited save and travel, things that the very poster you are replying to said they like. Do you lack the ability to understand that other people think differently about what makes a survival mode fun?

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36216715.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times. Edited April 2, 2016 by Guest