Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

[Castornebula]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890 are all replies on the same post.

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Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

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printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

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Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

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Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

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Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

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Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

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Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

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Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

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Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

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Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive? Edited April 2, 2016 by Castornebula

[Baboo77]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890, #36257990, #36258155, #36258325, #36258815, #36259625, #36263630, #36264205 are all replies on the same post.

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Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

  Quote

printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

EDIT: the FOTM list has a mod that let you save now.

  Quote

Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

  Quote

Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

  Quote

Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

  Quote

Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

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Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

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Castornebula wrote: How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive?

  Quote

dikr wrote: Portable bed roll mods are a nice, realistic workaround to me. Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game.

Personally I'm for a survival mode with custom options. Where the base 'mode' determines the new difficulty settings + the realistic needs & diseases and the following options:

[x] survival mode

Fast travel preferences:
[ ] fast travel enabled
[x] fast travel only between settlements with supply routes (my pick!)
[ ] fast travel disabled

Saving preferences:

[ ] saving enabled
[x] saving only at beds, settlements & friendly towns
[ ] saving only at beds

Happy to say that the engine-gods are with me on this one though: bought a new system for this game and haven't ctd'd a single time yet.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: I would suggest that you exercise some self-control with regards to saving and reloading.
I know I can, and would use saves for peace of mind against crashes, glitches and needing to suddenly leave the game.

And I can't think of anything more unimmersive than using beds as savepoints, even with portable bedrolls. My character does not have narcolepsy.

Granted, options to tweak these "features" would be the best outcome for everybody. Hopefully if Bethesda stubbornly refuse to do so, modders will pick up their slack... as they always do.

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printerkop wrote: It's immersively ridiculous.

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Czujny1982 wrote: "Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game"

basically this...

but i already see that you are too much ignorant to understand this, Castor...

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printerkop wrote: so if anyone doesn't agree with your point of view, he's ignorant ?
Think again, and again, till you get it right.

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MagnaBob wrote: Remember Far Cry 2?

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So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

So, deprive yourself of everything else survival mode has to offer because of a dumb save mechanic that doesn't need to be? What a stupid way to think.

How about toggles for save, console, and travel to provide everybody with the play experience they desire? Those looking for a real challenge can just exercise some will power and not turn those options on. Simple.

This isn't a MMO, multiplayer, or competitive game. It's a single player sandbox rpg, people should have the ability to customize their game to the way they like to play.
Edited April 3, 2016 by Baboo77

[dikr]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890, #36257990, #36258140 are all replies on the same post.

  Reveal hidden contents

  Quote

Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

  Quote

printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

  Quote

Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

  Quote

Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

  Quote

Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

  Quote

Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

  Quote

Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive?

  Quote

Baboo77 wrote:

  Quote

So, deprive yourself of everything else survival mode has to offer because of a dumb save mechanic that doesn't to be? What a stupid way to think.

How about toggles for save, console, and travel to provide everybody with the play experience they desire and those looking for a real challenge can just exercise some will power and not turn those options on. Simple.

This isn't a MMO, multiplayer, or competitive game. It's a single player sandbox rpg, people should have the ability to customize there game to the way they like to play.

Portable bed roll mods are a nice, realistic workaround to me. Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game.

Personally I'm for a survival mode with custom options. Where the base 'mode' determines the new difficulty settings + the realistic needs & diseases and the following options:

[x] survival mode

Fast travel preferences:
[ ] fast travel enabled
[x] fast travel only between settlements with supply routes (my pick!)
[ ] fast travel disabled

Saving preferences:

[ ] saving enabled
[x] saving only at beds, settlements & friendly towns
[ ] saving only at beds

Happy to say that the engine-gods are with me on this one though: bought a new system for this game and haven't ctd'd a single time yet.

[Castornebula]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890, #36257990, #36258140, #36258155 are all replies on the same post.

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  Quote

Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

  Quote

printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

  Quote

Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

  Quote

Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

  Quote

Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

  Quote

Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

  Quote

Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

  Quote

Castornebula wrote: How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive?

  Quote

Baboo77 wrote:

  Quote

So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

So, deprive yourself of everything else survival mode has to offer because of a dumb save mechanic that doesn't to be? What a stupid way to think.

How about toggles for save, console, and travel to provide everybody with the play experience they desire? Those looking for a real challenge can just exercise some will power and not turn those options on. Simple.

This isn't a MMO, multiplayer, or competitive game. It's a single player sandbox rpg, people should have the ability to customize their game to the way they like to play.

  Quote

dikr wrote: Portable bed roll mods are a nice, realistic workaround to me. Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game.

Personally I'm for a survival mode with custom options. Where the base 'mode' determines the new difficulty settings + the realistic needs & diseases and the following options:

[x] survival mode

Fast travel preferences:
[ ] fast travel enabled
[x] fast travel only between settlements with supply routes (my pick!)
[ ] fast travel disabled

Saving preferences:

[ ] saving enabled
[x] saving only at beds, settlements & friendly towns
[ ] saving only at beds

Happy to say that the engine-gods are with me on this one though: bought a new system for this game and haven't ctd'd a single time yet.

I would suggest that you exercise some self-control with regards to saving and reloading.
I know I can, and would use saves for peace of mind against crashes, glitches and needing to suddenly leave the game.

And I can't think of anything more unimmersive than using beds as savepoints, even with portable bedrolls. My character does not have narcolepsy.

Granted, options to tweak these "features" would be the best outcome for everybody. Hopefully if Bethesda stubbornly refuse to do so, modders will pick up their slack... as they always do. Edited April 2, 2016 by Castornebula

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36255920.

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RCrider185 wrote: My 2 main issues with this update are:

(1) Getting rid of console commands in a game that is buggy as hell is BS, just leave the basic "TCL" and "SetStage" all the rest can go but don't screw over your 100hr character by leaving them stuck in the floor or worst yet, the main quest tree gets a Bugged NPC.

(2) I want to keep my current character in the old survival mode, it's a good all around setting for a normal play through not to hard not to easy "fair" or at least update the Hard mode to the old survival mode.

Other than these 2 first world problems, I just can't wait for this update to go live.

i believe they did that, very hard is now the same as the earlier Survival mode, don't know this for sure, but i read it somewhere.

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36255115.

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Castornebula wrote: Are they still insistent on that save point nonsense?
I guess I'll have to wait for a mod to disable that ill thought out feature.

Look at the files of the month list on the main page, the last mod does exactly that.

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890, #36257990, #36258140, #36258155, #36258325 are all replies on the same post.

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Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

  Quote

printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

EDIT: the FOTM list has a mod that let you save now.

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Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

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Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

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Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

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Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

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Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

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Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

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Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

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Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

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Castornebula wrote: How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive?

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Baboo77 wrote:

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So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

So, deprive yourself of everything else survival mode has to offer because of a dumb save mechanic that doesn't to be? What a stupid way to think.

How about toggles for save, console, and travel to provide everybody with the play experience they desire? Those looking for a real challenge can just exercise some will power and not turn those options on. Simple.

This isn't a MMO, multiplayer, or competitive game. It's a single player sandbox rpg, people should have the ability to customize their game to the way they like to play.

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dikr wrote: Portable bed roll mods are a nice, realistic workaround to me. Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game.

Personally I'm for a survival mode with custom options. Where the base 'mode' determines the new difficulty settings + the realistic needs & diseases and the following options:

[x] survival mode

Fast travel preferences:
[ ] fast travel enabled
[x] fast travel only between settlements with supply routes (my pick!)
[ ] fast travel disabled

Saving preferences:

[ ] saving enabled
[x] saving only at beds, settlements & friendly towns
[ ] saving only at beds

Happy to say that the engine-gods are with me on this one though: bought a new system for this game and haven't ctd'd a single time yet.

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Castornebula wrote: I would suggest that you exercise some self-control with regards to saving and reloading.
I know I can, and would use saves for peace of mind against crashes, glitches and needing to suddenly leave the game.

And I can't think of anything more unimmersive than using beds as savepoints, even with portable bedrolls. My character does not have narcolepsy.

Granted, options to tweak these "features" would be the best outcome for everybody. Hopefully if Bethesda stubbornly refuse to do so, modders will pick up their slack... as they always do.

It's immersively ridiculous.

[Czujny1982]

In response to post #36250120. #36250875, #36253370, #36253890, #36255175, #36255675, #36255830, #36257015, #36257275, #36257890, #36257990, #36258140, #36258155, #36258325, #36258815 are all replies on the same post.

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Beantins wrote: Really looking forward to the new survival mode - but not the in-bed save system. So if I'm wandering the commonwealth and find a behemoth I need to leave and find a bed then walk back before taking it on or risk dying and losing a lot of progress??

I appreciate what they're trying to do but the glitches, bugs and irreversible player errors are too frequent for a checkpoint style of game-play.

I hope the Nexus community are able to come up with a workaround better than just a droppable bedroll, because real life happens and it's not always convenient to find a bed when you need to stop playing.

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printerkop wrote: Exactly, don't take it on if you haven't slept shortly before, or you'll have to do everything again.

I had to replay an hour cause my game crashed, then i had to replay an hour because i stumbled on a brahmin with 5 mines around it, bethesda's little joke on us.

Don't worry, when the Creation kit is released these issues will certainly be adressed.

EDIT: the FOTM list has a mod that let you save now.

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Beantins wrote: Case in point, just had a power cut! Hadn't seen a bed since I left my settlement over an hour ago. If you're in the countryside you're screwed haha.

I can see how it would ramp up the tension but the frustration wouldn't make it worth it in my opinion.

Like I said I'm looking forward to the other changes just not that one. Also I hope the console being disabled will only apply to the beta?

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Baboo77 wrote: Last night I was taking the castle, I had avoided most of the fights on the way too the castle so my save was an annoying distance away, not super far but still a tedious run back when having to do it repetitively.
I set up a firing line and proceeded to lure the mirelurks out. Well, the stupid effin minutemen kept throwing their unlimited supply of molotov coctails at me instead of the mirelurks. I know it's unlimited cause I pick pocketed them empty on the 3rd try and they still had more to throw and I know it was at me they were throwing cause on the second try I was standing behind them and one turned around and chucked a bottle at me. After the 4th run back to the castle was quite annoyed by this so I got crafty. With some painstaking agro control and precise sprinting burst and a ton of chems to keep me alive I managed to get the minutemen killed by mirelurks and their own molotov coctails before proceeding to take the castle alone with Garvey.

Yeah, save on demand is pretty much a must in a game like this.

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Castornebula wrote: I do hope the no save thing is as simple as changing a variable in FO4Edit or whatever they use now because I'd like to try this, but no way can I tolerate this save point idea.

It worries me that Bethesda are so blithely ignorant about how their game works, and the inherent instability of their own engine. At any moment I can get kicked to the desktop, not even an error message. The game will just randomly die.
The worst part about this is that the highest occurence of these CTDs happens when I approach settlements... otherwise known as PLACES WITH BEDS. Essentially guaranteeing I will lose the most amount of playtime in any given crash.

I could never play this game without saving on demand and that's all there is to it.

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Scynix wrote: If your crashing was symptomatic across all players, yeah, they'd be stupid. I don't crash. Ever. Unless I install a ton of mods. I can name ten people who haven't crashed once. Maybe you should troubleshoot your computer?

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Castornebula wrote: What a stupid thing to say. You don't crash therefore it's okay?
I crash, sometimes. Not always, but enough that saving on demand is better for peace of mind. Plenty of people have problems crashing and always have with Fallout 4, with Skyrim, with all the other Bethesda games running this engine. Mods or no mods.

Case in point: I've never had a single glitch, crash or performance issue with XCOM 2. But I'm not going to sit here and smugly blame other people's computers for the problems they've had to the point XCOM 2 is semi-notorious for it.

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Czujny1982 wrote: So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

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Castornebula wrote: Something has always been wrong with this engine. It's never been known for it's stability. That's a simple fact. Try to actually read what I say before responding.

And let me explain this to you very simply. I want the features of survival mode. Just not this ridiculous save point system. It is nothing but an albatross around the entire mode's neck that is impractical for a myriad of reasons, the potential for crashing being merely one example.

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Czujny1982 wrote: New save system is not ridiculous, it's more immersive.

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Castornebula wrote: How the hell is it more immersive? Because you say so? Making a bed a save point is immersive? How?
Better yet, if you like it why can't it be an option? Why must this and the console disabling be imposed on all of us along with the features we actually want?

Hey I tell you what's immersive. No saving at all! Not even to quit. So you have to leave the game running. And if you die just once not only is your character erased but Fallout 4 is automatically uninstalled and removed from your Steam account.
How's that for immersive?

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Baboo77 wrote:

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So, you crash therefore something it's wrong with the game, yes? What a stupid way to think. And if you dont like no save on demand system, don't play survival mode. Simple.

So, deprive yourself of everything else survival mode has to offer because of a dumb save mechanic that doesn't to be? What a stupid way to think.

How about toggles for save, console, and travel to provide everybody with the play experience they desire? Those looking for a real challenge can just exercise some will power and not turn those options on. Simple.

This isn't a MMO, multiplayer, or competitive game. It's a single player sandbox rpg, people should have the ability to customize their game to the way they like to play.

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dikr wrote: Portable bed roll mods are a nice, realistic workaround to me. Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game.

Personally I'm for a survival mode with custom options. Where the base 'mode' determines the new difficulty settings + the realistic needs & diseases and the following options:

[x] survival mode

Fast travel preferences:
[ ] fast travel enabled
[x] fast travel only between settlements with supply routes (my pick!)
[ ] fast travel disabled

Saving preferences:

[ ] saving enabled
[x] saving only at beds, settlements & friendly towns
[ ] saving only at beds

Happy to say that the engine-gods are with me on this one though: bought a new system for this game and haven't ctd'd a single time yet.

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Castornebula wrote: I would suggest that you exercise some self-control with regards to saving and reloading.
I know I can, and would use saves for peace of mind against crashes, glitches and needing to suddenly leave the game.

And I can't think of anything more unimmersive than using beds as savepoints, even with portable bedrolls. My character does not have narcolepsy.

Granted, options to tweak these "features" would be the best outcome for everybody. Hopefully if Bethesda stubbornly refuse to do so, modders will pick up their slack... as they always do.

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printerkop wrote: It's immersively ridiculous.

"Being able to save anywhere, anytime to reload and retry indefinitely is in fact a big immersion breaker; the whole point of the survival mode is to create a much more exciting experience with incentives to be much more careful than you'd normally play the game"

basically this...

but i already see that you are too much ignorant to understand this, Castor...

[Sebastianus]

In response to post #36176290. #36185910, #36213820, #36214055, #36223055, #36223765, #36227355, #36230205 are all replies on the same post.

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Sebastianus wrote: I really like most of those changes, but I'm not going to participate in this beta.

1. Mods I have literally double the FPS count, eliminate stuttering and most other significant bugs that Bethesda never seemed to care about for a decade (only two gamebreakers I can't get rid off: hotkey switching and texture unloading).
2. Lack of fast travel is a no-go. There is a line between immersion "for fun" and utter annoyance. I'm not willing to waste 10+ minutes to get to that damned settlement, which can't defend itself with 200+ defense and 3 meter tall wall without my help.
3. Saving got gimped way too hard. This is just another annoyance, not immersion. Not to mention that since the previous patch I occassionally get completely random CTDs.

In other words, I'll wait till the "official" update and mods that deal with the unnecessary annoyance.

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Snowskeeper wrote: Re: 1, Bethesda needs to be able to know, for certain, which problems are caused by the changes to the base game in Survival mode. Mods, even optimization mods, make that more difficult to verify without having access to all of your information.
Re: 2, I haven't fast-travelled in Fallout 4 as of yet. It's a small map, relatively speaking, and there's enough going on in it that I never felt bored during my wanderings. That said, I also usually have an audiobook or podcast on in the background, so that's probably making me a little more tolerant of it.
I don't know what you mean about save gimping. I'll have to find a more complete version of the change log.

EDIT: Yeah, save gimping is bad; hopefully they change that.

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Sebastianus wrote: I'm not stupid.
I can see the reason behind disabling mods in a beta update, but that's also a major reason I'm not willing to get it.
Plus, they are still to clean up after their last stunt with mod tampering, so I'm not holding my breath here.
On the other hand so far all "beta" updates went "official" without any changes.

The map is cramped to the point navigating it (which doesn't have a "search" function) is terribadly awful.
Finding anything in the Boston's "downtown" is pretty much impossible without comparing Pipboy with a location's image from the wikia.
Plus there is literally nothing worth of value, except for XP for re-visiting places and killing the same enemies over and over again.

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jbMnemonic wrote: Hear, hear !!! - I second your opinion - Bethesda, please take note. I can still only play in Power armour as my pipboy is disabled despite having tried every single post's solution available everywhere, more than once, in fact 10's of times. :(:(:(

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Scynix wrote: What was the point of this post? Who cares why you aren't going to use it?

I like both of the things you don't like.

Disabling fast travel gives alternate travel methods like the vertibird signal an actual purpose.

Forcing saves to be at static sleep locations forces players to be more careful about decisions, which in turn makes the speech checks more legitimate. If I fail a speech check I have to reload all the way back at whatever bed I was at last time if I want to try again.

See what I did there? I listed reasons its good. Does anyone care? No. :D

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Vicalliose wrote: So basically you're saying that you don't want to be allowed to save scum because you cannot trust yourself not to do it? That's your problem, stop projecting your issues onto everyone else. You can also actively make the decision not to fast travel, why take it away from other people? Because you can't trust yourself not to use it either?

Also don't even bring up vertibirds as a good alternative to fast travel, that suggests that the player would only ever side with the brotherhood, and with as limited as players decisions already are in Fallout 4, basically FORCING you to choose the same side just to get a major benefit is just stupidly limiting.

Do you even understand that the survival mode is not just about locking you out of saves and fast traveling? There's features in there that many people have wanted for long time without ever wanting limited save and travel, things that the very poster you are replying to said they like. Do you lack the ability to understand that other people think differently about what makes a survival mode fun?

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Scynix wrote: Uhm vicalliose..... have you even played the game completely to finish? The Brotherhood aren't the only people who get access to the vertibird as a form of transport.....

I was gonna respond to the rest of your droning, but as soon as I saw you hadn't actually -played the game- I kinda gave up. Sorry.

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Vicalliose wrote: @Scynix
Now that you mention it, despite having over 560 hours in the game, no I never really noticed that the other factions allow you to use vertibirds after destroying the brotherhood (or I just completely forgot).

That is my own fault, and I apologize for that. Perhaps it's because I only bothered siding with the other factions up until after the end of the main quest and then just loaded my old save and went back to building settlements, or maybe it's just because I personally never even used them more than once. I admit I'm not much of a completionist.

Again, it's my own fault for being dumb enough to miss something like that and I apologize.

@ Scynix

"What's the point of this post?" is such a proper question here.

You see, I voiced my opinion concerning the matter at hand. It's just that.

Now now. Actually I've seen some of your posts in this comment section and I'm not surprised one bit.
What your post is about is berating me, saying "who cares about you".
You, obviously, care hard enough to come here to read comments and be an ass to people.
An ass with ego. That's you. Nothing more.

Plus your reasons for why it's a good change are only "good" if you have problems with yourself.
My are good all around, because they are related to technical difficulties, which for the most part are the developer's fault, not the player's.

Hell, using Vertibird for transportation? Since I installed Automatron, I can't even sprint between locations, because the game occasionally refuses to keep up with loading and first disables sprinting then hangs up completely.

[soulshine1960]

In response to post #36205495. #36205950, #36206170, #36209920 are all replies on the same post.

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xhaven wrote: So reading through the comments here I've come to the sad conclusion that most people are idiots :(

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austen1000 wrote: I tried posting a logical explanation for why mods aren't loading properly in the beta (heavy changes to the ESM/P file formats, as Bethesda has alluded to), yet, no one really seemed to care, and continue to say Bethesda is lying on this regard. I think they're telling the truth, but, their refusal to elaborate on what kind of changes they made to the files has people jumping to conclusions. I'm sure once further decoding of the new ESM/P files is done, and FO4Edit updated in response to said decoding, mods will be working just fine again. Even then, mods are not officially supported yet, and this is a beta.

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DamoclesVI wrote: Ha exactly, these people don't realize all their free mods do not demand official support from the authors themselves or Bethesda especially in regards to a Beta. Yet somehow they still find ways to complain about the icing on their cake.

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Mustang_ER wrote: if that's the case, then it's more serious than i thought. i thought it was meant to let players have better beta testing result for survival mod.

"So reading through the comments here I've come to the sad conclusion that most people are idiots "

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