Interior Cell Combat Problem

[Athelbras]

I have a Creature follower that works just fine in exterior cells for combat and movement. It is defined to use only ranged combat (no melee whatsoever), and across a variety of test cases it behaves as expected outdoors.

 

But in any interior cell, once the critter acquires a target, it heads straight to that target and tries to reach the center of that target's model (possibly simply in an effort to get to that entity's x/y coordinate position) and continues doing that until it switches targets, the current target moves quickly away (at which point the critter follows to re-embed itself), or the current target dies (in which case it chases down a new target and does the same thing). At no time does it shoot. It happens regardless of circumstances. ResetAI has no affect, neither do changes in packages, combat style, weaponry, etc.

 

The only obvious difference is interior versus exterior cell.

 

I have several existing follower mods, including two "creatures", and have never encountered this issue before.

 

Any thoughts on what the cause might be? Or suggestions on how to further troubleshoot it? I've spent a great many hours on this with no success, and have run out of ideas.

 

It uses a new skeleton and model file (a vertibird), with accompanying animations. Could the problem perhaps have something to do with any of those things? [my knowledge of models and animations is almost nil]

 

Oh, and if I simply switch to something else, such as an EyeBot, with all the various things otherwise being same (gear, combat style, packages, etc.) it then works fine, both for interior and exterior cells.

 

Thoughts and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Athelbras

Edited April 2, 2016 by Athelbras

[rickerhk]

That's odd. What's the creature's percecption? Have you tried other cells? Maybe something to do with the lighting.

Also if you have a combat style set in the follow package, or use the combat style script command, make sure it it consistent with the CombatStyleRanged and CombatStyleMelee wheel variables on the NPC/creature's script. I had an issue once where they were not, and the NPC wouldn't use their weapon. It seems those variables affect the AI as well as being wheel button flags.

[Athelbras]

I have tried multiple different interior cells. Fails in all cases.

 

Perceptions is 10 - all attributes are set to 10, and all skills to 100.

 

Combat Style is set in the follow package (the only package), is set when the critter is initialized via scripting, and is the same as what is specified in the creature record. I have varied the CS from one that I tailored myself, to also trying existing alternatives (eyebot, sentry turret, etc.) - none of them make a difference: they all work in exterior cells, but never interior.

 

Also, in all cases I confirmed that the appropriate weapon (the only one in its inventory) is equip'ed, that the creature is in combat, and it has acquired an appropriate combat target.

 

Am kind of wondering now if it is attempting to invoke an unknown (to me a least) animation file (that is not used in exterior cells), and when failing to find it is getting confused. <shrug> But who knows.

 

I am about to disappear for the day in just a couple of minutes (back later this evening), but could provide a rather small - very simplified - test case package with a couple saved games that exhibit the issue, with the player & critter positioned ready to start a fight, and make it available later this evening or tomorrow morning ... if you'd like to see for yourself.

 

Regards,

 

Athelbras

Edited April 2, 2016 by Athelbras

[RoyBatterian]

Hmmm, shot in the dark here... min/max range on the weapon or invalid package flag perhaps (must complete for ex) ?

[mindboggles]

Athelbras, check your PMs.

 

"Am kind of wondering now if it is attempting to invoke an unknown (to me a least) animation file (that is not used in exterior cells), and when failing to find it is getting confused. <shrug> But who knows." If it's an attack animation causing it then it fails universally, only time I know when the game will swap out anim files is when the creatures mobility is crippled (if setup properly) and then the game swaps to using the hurt folder animations, then only if the same files (unhurt versions) reside in the locomotion folder.

 

 

Hmmm, shot in the dark here... min/max range on the weapon or invalid package flag perhaps (must complete for ex) ?

You might not be that far off the mark, I've had issues with unique embedded melee weapons where the Reach was 0 and caused the creatures try and get right on top of the enemy.

[Athelbras]

At this point I am thinking it is simply the game getting confused as a result of either (1) the scaling-down of the model, or (2) because it is not happy with something about the model / animations. But don't really know. I did try various scaling factors (the desired 0.03 up through 0.5), wherever interior ceiling height allowed that - no improvements discerned.

 

I also tried a multitude of min/max weapon range values, and none of them had noticeable effect indoors, although any combination worked fine outdoors. For much of my testing I used 100 / 300 since that pairing seemed reasonably appropriate for interiors; but again, I tried a great many lesser and greater values as well. Also tried the Fixed Range flag setting that ignores Combat Style modifiers, but with no success.

 

Also set the Reach values to 100 in the creature record and ranged weapon record, which also matched the Min Range that I was using. That was done just in case the rifle was being used as a melee weapon. Didn't help.

 

The current single package is the absolute minimal "Follow", with no invalid flag settings. I also tried a variety of the vanilla default packages, created variations, and tested Wander and Travel - all of which I have used copiously and successfully in the past for other companion mods. Given the observed characteristics of the central problem, I think packages are unlikely to play a role in the issue.

 

Eventually, thinking that the game was perhaps getting confused when using a scaled-down model in smaller interior areas (even though it maneuvers around quite easily and freely), I tried a couple places that are quite expansive: McCarran Concourse and McCarran Terminal Building. I guess they are large enough to have characteristics similar to exterior cells ... because they actually worked most of the time, with only a rare exception.

 

A medium-sized chamber (McCarran Supply Shack) would only work if I started the fight at maximum range, otherwise my creature (Whirly) always did the embed-nose-in-enemy-target routine. Although, interestingly enough, if the guy tried to run away and gained some distance between himself and Whirly, Whirly would suddenly become unconfused and gun him down. Note that altering min/max range values of the weapon while in that room had only marginal affect (no matter how small or how large the settings).

 

Areas that have never worked include: Nipton Town Hall, Vault 3, and the various NCR CF buildings.

 

And of interest is the fact that everything works correctly if some other unscaled model (and its animations) is used instead (with all settings, gear, AI, Combat Style, etc. staying exactly the same). Also, just FYI, a scaled-down Securitron and Deathclaw (two of my other follower mods) do not have these issues, although their down-scaling is much less significant.

 

Very perplexing ...

 

Athelbras

Edited April 3, 2016 by Athelbras

[RoyBatterian]

Yeah that's just weird... I did try to fix ED-E to use his melee weapons that were designed for him, but apparently there is no AI or the weapon node doesn't work correctly in this instance. He'll either freeze and not move at all (very weird) or do as you've been describing which is to get right on the enemy, but not attacking. I wonder if this problem is related to flying creatures and/or weapon node issues.

[Athelbras]

Well ... by golly ... I do believe I got it working, mostly, both for interiors and exteriors. But don't actually know *why* it works.

 

This morning I began experimenting to see if I could resolve a secondary issue: as Whirly moves around, supposedly flying in the air, he pushes aside ground clutter that is in his way. Which of course is not visually appropriate since he is elevated above that stuff. So what I tried is this: I changed his skeleton's BSBound values to only encompass the model itself; i.e. to no longer extend down to the ground (although extending to ground level seems to be what's typical, e.g. Eyebots).

 

With that change he still pushes ground clutter around ... but now he properly attacks enemies both indoors and out. Well, mostly: every once in a while he gets confused as before. But that confusion seems to be infrequent, and - very tentatively - can seemingly be cleared by moving him away from his target if/when he is clearly too close, then issuing a ResetAI, followed by a StopCombat.

 

My current thinking though is that with a revised model / animations that are reworked to the desired size, without the need for down-scaling, it might solve the problem reliably, and without the need for special case handling as I described above.

 

I'll report back here later after completing significantly more testing of things as they are right now, for those who might be interested in the results.

 

But in the meantime ... many thanks to those of you who have participated in this discussion thus far.

 

Regards,

 

Athelbras