Complex firearms system

[VanKross]

Hi,

SO, i have a mod idea who may be a little bit complex to create...

firearms and other weapon can have modification which add or change some attribute of it but to my taste its not realistic enough...

Like, really you can build/modify a military grade weapon with some duct tape and steel sheet... and its the same to build all modifications for each weapons...

so, my idea is to change how it work...

Lets take the Hunting rifle for example, strip it from all the modification it have and think about it like if its real...

Receiver, bolt, trigger, chamber, barrel, extractor, etc... each with its own quality (broken, rusty, old, etc...) and utility.

First, the receiver it will serve the purpose of knowing what can be modified in it.

a sealed (welded) receiver may not be extensively modified than a custom receiver,

and a rusted old receiver may not be as safe than a pristine newly forged custom receiver... (faulty receiver can explode right ?) etc...

so, in a receiver we can squeeze in it a bolt (firing rate/damage?), trigger (firing rate?), extractor (?), hammer (damage?), the chamber (caliber) and other thing...

i'm not really expert in the subject. and then like in the vanilla add to it the barrel and the grip/stock...

the barrel will be here to know the firing distance (CqC barrel or Long barrel) and the spread (rifled barrel or not)...

the stock will be for the spread too may be...

and it's the same for the ammo, some realism wouldn't be bad

so, what do you think guys ?

i'm going to learn to create some 3D models and when the creation kit will be released, I think i'll get a look at it to see if i can do it...

PS : sorry if my english is bad...

 

[HazaRd777]

I usually try not to get too detailed with this stuff since most people generally don't care, but since realism is what you're going for I'll throw in my two cents.

 

I'll just go through your ideas in order. First, the receiver will likely be machined somehow, especially considering the tools available on the workbench. Welded wouldn't seem like a reliable method. I'm not a gunsmith, but usually firearms have tight internal tolerances and can't have anything obstructing it. Custom would mean to me that the pieces were all fitted together to allow more reliable operation. They can all be modified however with basic machining skills, functionality is what's affected.

 

If anything breaks or goes wrong with a firearm, it will fail 99% of the time instead of just exploding. In other words, it won't fire. Bad cartridges is usually what causes that kind of damage, mainly because of too much powder in the casing. An old, rusted firearm may not fire or may have more frequent malfunctions.

 

Bolts won't affect damage and firing rate depends on a lot more factors than just the bolt. The trigger would dictate whether the gun was semi or full-auto, and again firing rate has a lot of variables. A bad extractor would increase the chances for misfeeds and failed-to-ejects. The hammer is part of the trigger. Chamber goes with the barrel, but yeah that, the bolt, and receiver size would determine the type of round the gun fires. The longer the Barrel, the faster the projectile, therefore the harder the impact and further it will travel. A good barrel without a filed bore (worn rifling) will help with the spread as well. Range and damage would be affected as well with longer barrels increasing both. The stock would also help with keeping the gun stable, therefore increasing/decreasing the spread. A shoulder-fired gun is easier to handle than a hand fired one.

 

If you really want to make a realistic firearm overhaul, here's what I would add to this:

-Forget about individual parts like bolts and extractors. They all work together and can be grouped with the whole receiver. Now a cleaned receiver, as in one that's cleaned of dirt, rust, and powder residue would decrease wear-rate and decrease malfunctions. A fitted receiver means that it will be even more reliable, and special modifications such as NP3 or NiB coatings will decrease wear on internal parts as well.

-Creating some kind of weapon wear system like what we had in FO3 or FONV would benefit this. Weapons breaking due to poor condition and malfunctions making you having to rack the gun again would force you in the game to consider keeping your weapon maintained.

-Make some weapon mods universal between guns. Ex, a scope can be used for one gun but not another makes absolutely no sense. Peripherals such as scopes, red dots, foregrips, and so on should be able to be used on ALL firearms. Things like receiver mods, muzzle brakes, or stocks are firearm specific.

 

As for ammo I'd go with something similar to what's already been done by other modders but keeping it closer to the system in FONV. Components like small/large pistol/rifle powder and primers can be interchangeable. Bullets can be as well, but it'd be cool to see small/large pistol/rifle FMJs, APs, JSPs, JHPs, or even lead cast bullets (which honestly would be the most common in a post-apocalypse world). Casings would have to be cartridge specific. If you could recreate the system in FONV that would be perfect IMO. The vanilla system in it was actually pretty realistic without getting too overly detailed.

 

I could think of a few things more but that's mainly what sticks out.

[VanKross]

I'll just go through your ideas in order. First, the receiver will likely be machined somehow, especially considering the tools available on the workbench. Welded wouldn't seem like a reliable method. I'm not a gunsmith, but usually firearms have tight internal tolerances and can't have anything obstructing it. Custom would mean to me that the pieces were all fitted together to allow more reliable operation. They can all be modified however with basic machining skills, functionality is what's affected.

 

If anything breaks or goes wrong with a firearm, it will fail 99% of the time instead of just exploding. In other words, it won't fire. Bad cartridges is usually what causes that kind of damage, mainly because of too much powder in the casing. An old, rusted firearm may not fire or may have more frequent malfunctions.

 

Ok seem logical

 

Bolts won't affect damage and firing rate depends on a lot more factors than just the bolt. The trigger would dictate whether the gun was semi or full-auto, and again firing rate has a lot of variables. A bad extractor would increase the chances for misfeeds and failed-to-ejects. The hammer is part of the trigger. Chamber goes with the barrel, but yeah that, the bolt, and receiver size would determine the type of round the gun fires. The longer the Barrel, the faster the projectile, therefore the harder the impact and further it will travel. A good barrel without a filed bore (worn rifling) will help with the spread as well. Range and damage would be affected as well with longer barrels increasing both. The stock would also help with keeping the gun stable, therefore increasing/decreasing the spread. A shoulder-fired gun is easier to handle than a hand fired one.

 

If you really want to make a realistic firearm overhaul, here's what I would add to this:

-Forget about individual parts like bolts and extractors. They all work together and can be grouped with the whole receiver. Now a cleaned receiver, as in one that's cleaned of dirt, rust, and powder residue would decrease wear-rate and decrease malfunctions. A fitted receiver means that it will be even more reliable, and special modifications such as NP3 or NiB coatings will decrease wear on internal parts as well.

-Creating some kind of weapon wear system like what we had in FO3 or FONV would benefit this. Weapons breaking due to poor condition and malfunctions making you having to rack the gun again would force you in the game to consider keeping your weapon maintained.

-Make some weapon mods universal between guns. Ex, a scope can be used for one gun but not another makes absolutely no sense. Peripherals such as scopes, red dots, foregrips, and so on should be able to be used on ALL firearms. Things like receiver mods, muzzle brakes, or stocks are firearm specific.

 

 

Ok i've learned something new, I haven't any idea about coating existed. And yeah a degrading system will be nice.

 

As for ammo I'd go with something similar to what's already been done by other modders but keeping it closer to the system in FONV. Components like small/large pistol/rifle powder and primers can be interchangeable. Bullets can be as well, but it'd be cool to see small/large pistol/rifle FMJs, APs, JSPs, JHPs, or even lead cast bullets (which honestly would be the most common in a post-apocalypse world). Casings would have to be cartridge specific. If you could recreate the system in FONV that would be perfect IMO. The vanilla system in it was actually pretty realistic without getting too overly detailed.

 

I could think of a few things more but that's mainly what sticks out.

 

Exactly some mods from FONV was amazingly detailed and fulfilling to make all the ammo, i was thinking the same.

 

yesterday i have forgotten to say, maybe a new settlement location (like Saugus Ironworks) with a bunch of unique workbench to forge new weapon/modification will be more realistic with a some timer, or something to prevent creating too much thing in 10 minutes and for the sake of it adding some quest to add blueprint for every modification to prevent the player to be a smartass who know everything right at the beginning...

[HazaRd777]

 

Ok i've learned something new, I haven't any idea about coating existed. And yeah a degrading system will be nice.

 

Yeah, you usually only see it from two kinds of people. Either A) they competitive shooters and benefit from having internal parts that don't wear as much or B) they like the way it looks. The only thing with real-life weapon mods is that a lot of them are firearm specific. For instance, on an M1 Garand you can install an adjustable gas plug which allows you to use commercial ammo instead of military versions. General things like reducing weight (aluminum/titanium/polymer vs steel), fitted parts, extended magazines, lighter trigger pulls, semi vs full in auto-loaders, or like I said special coatings are general mods that can be done on most guns. Others you'd just have to take on a gun-by-gun basis.

 

yesterday i have forgotten to say, maybe a new settlement location (like Saugus Ironworks) with a bunch of unique workbench to forge new weapon/modification will be more realistic with a some timer, or something to prevent creating too much thing in 10 minutes and for the sake of it adding some quest to add blueprint for every modification to prevent the player to be a smartass who know everything right at the beginning...

 

 

That's one idea I've always played with. I'm going a little off topic here, but I've imagined finding on old factory with a special workbench that you could not just mod but create new guns from. You'd find designs out in the wasteland or study ones that you found and learn to make them there. For instance you find a combat rifle schematic off of a trader and you bring that to the shop to create your new gun. You could add settlers to scavange parts like lead, steel, aluminium, etc. to supply the place (much like northland diggers) and you could turn it into a type of store. But yeah I get what you mean. It's just odd that some random vault dweller would magically know dozens of complex weapon and mod designs.

Edited April 7, 2016 by HazaRd777

[VanKross]

 

That's one idea I've always played with. I'm going a little off topic here, but I've imagined finding on old factory with a special workbench that you could not just mod but create new guns from. You'd find designs out in the wasteland or study ones that you found and learn to make them there. For instance you find a combat rifle schematic off of a trader and you bring that to the shop to create your new gun. You could add settlers to scavange parts like lead, steel, aluminium, etc. to supply the place (much like northland diggers) and you could turn it into a type of store. But yeah I get what you mean. It's just odd that some random vault dweller would magically know dozens of complex weapon and mod designs.

 

yeah a mix of a mod to add some relatively "real" modding capability to gun and more deep crafting mechanics to gun and ammo smithing would be a awesome mix.

 

Some year ago i've created a mod for FONV to simulate each step of ammo building, melting lead and copper for the casing and bullet, with mold for each casing and bullet size, making the primer too, etc...

And after half a year working on it, someone made it before me (with proper model for each item, unlike with what I have done) so I never released it.

So i know i can try to make something similar for FO4, now for the part with the modification of guns may be a bit tricky but its not impossible... for the rest, i don't know if i can make it...

I'm not really a fully experienced modder... specifically for quest or item placing etc...