Fallout 4 - a major Synth plothole question

[Moraelin]

As for asking me to defend Bethesda's daft representation of a group of scientists, I will not. That is because even I do not know why the Institute does half the things they do. Unlike every other faction, their goals are either needlessly complicated or never truly elaborated upon. No one ever sits us down at a table and explains what their core ideology is, if they even have one. Despite being a group of people that has been around for almost 200 years I never really got the feeling that they represented an actual culture beyond science, lab coats and business meetings.

I don't think it's supposed to represent science. I don't think anyone actually formulated it as a "core ideology", but the core problem seems to be nothing more than isolationism.

 

I think it's kinda telling that the first time Father wants to see the world outside for himself, it's from a rooftop, and he promptly declares that he gives up on it. I think most other people in the Institute never went outside even that much.

 

Zimmer seems to still go outside, but that's about it.

 

Basically my take is that they've been isolated for so long, that basically they fear the world outside. And none of them wants to be the human agents who actually go out and infiltrate some raider gang. So they use synth instead, and destabilize that world outside so it never can become a threat to them. In their mind, at least.

[k361]

 

It is quite obvious, as for Institute's main goal they seek to eradicate last traces of pre-war society which people seem to embrace still and replace it with a new model, as for what that model could be, some sort of utopian society most likely.

 

Where does it even say that? I keep seeing this pop up on tv tropes.com but I have never seen it personally in game. Was there a memo I missed?

 

Sadly the only source I have at the moment is fallout wiki as last fallout bible installment was at 2002 maybe? But no worries, ever since the first fallout game I always did a thorough gameplay searching for notes holotapes and terminals, Fallout 4 is the first game that deals with the Institute in wider range so if there is a mention regarding their policy and general aim I will find it.

[CyrusAmell]

 

 

It is quite obvious, as for Institute's main goal they seek to eradicate last traces of pre-war society which people seem to embrace still and replace it with a new model, as for what that model could be, some sort of utopian society most likely.

 

Where does it even say that? I keep seeing this pop up on tv tropes.com but I have never seen it personally in game. Was there a memo I missed?

 

Sadly the only source I have at the moment is fallout wiki as last fallout bible installment was at 2002 maybe? But no worries, ever since the first fallout game I always did a thorough gameplay searching for notes holotapes and terminals, Fallout 4 is the first game that deals with the Institute in wider range so if there is a mention regarding their policy and general aim I will find it.

 

 

Thank you, but you really don't have to. The terminal entries already uploaded to the wiki are quite insightful. But it would be nice to know where this particular quirk comes from.

Edited April 11, 2016 by CyrusAmell

[k361]

Oh by the way I found two great sites that I feel were kinda left out. Sentinel site and something K21 or K12b Installation?

Anyway the definition of their goal came from wiki and I am quite interested in it as everyday since I begun my 2nd and thorough playthrough I get new informations about the institute yeah first play was rushed kinda so I missed most of things, like institute kidnapping people and subjecting them to FEV etc etc. Also a question, did I miss something or you have to have a holotape for Virgil and Swan mention to pop up in dialogue?

[Fatalmasterpiece]

The Institute wants to make the Ubermensch, the superior being to progress into the future. If it doesn't make sense to you that's good, it means you don't fall for their fascist, eugenic views.

[darkus37]

I could buy them making that attempt on a small scale, but not on such a large one and with every Synth. By the point of the PC's defrosting they seem to have stopped trying to make a better and better version of the Ubermensch - the Coursers appear to be the pinnacle in that regard (not really sure why, I thought it was one of the more easier fights actually) and are focused on mass production of organic robots for reasons undermentioned (and for which I started the thread to try and figure out). For that matter there is no real evidence to suggest that regular Synths are designed to be perfect, or that much stronger/faster/smarter than a regular human - the opposite seems to be true. Next, Ubermensch's would be designed to lead not be enslaved as part of the whole superior race thing - I'm pretty sure that's one of their things. Finally, I would have bought that as a reasonable idea if there was some example of the Institute scientists transferring their consciousness into a Synth, but that appears to be either impossible technologically or beyond their morality/prejudice. They are a group with fascist, eugenic views - but that's the extent of it... the Institute appears only to exist so that the big bad of Fallout 4 wasn't the Enclave again.

 

 

Still, having Father show up as an end boss in a Courser body would have been an interesting idea... a question of whether he was still the man he was before or just a seeming imitation (like Nick Valentine).

[CyrusAmell]

The Institute wants to make the Ubermensch, the superior being to progress into the future. If it doesn't make sense to you that's good, it means you don't fall for their fascist, eugenic views.

 

Father was explicitly against transhumanism, and had enough clout to shut down the cybernetics program that had given Kellog extended life. It is quite clear from his logs that Father knew most Institute Scientists would have preferred the cyborg program continue and not stop. If it had actually been a given goal to make a perfect being, or whatever, then the cyborg program should have been expanded upon.

 

I also find it highly debatable that the Institute could make a clean transfer between one of their own scientists and a synth. At most, the scientists would be killing themselves so that a synth that thinks it's them would be made. It would be exactly like Nick Valentine - his own synth but with the memories of a long dead man. At any rate, the Institute seems more concerned with radiation free humans (making them like the Enclave) than it does with any notion of a superior race. Even then, it is still willing to recruit capable scientists from the surface so they might not care much about that either.

 

The whole point of the gen 3 program was to help create a utopia by ensuring that Institute Humans did not have to do any manual labor and could focus on pushing the boundaries of science. To that end, the Institute desires to replace its current gen 1 and 2 synth workforce with gen 3 synths and to have enough gen 3 synths to keep expanding the Institute size underground at a steady pace. This little utopian vision, which many Institute scientists see as close enough to touch, would be severely hampered if the subject of gen 3 synths being sentient people was taken as a serious issue. Ergo, the persistently held belief that synths are not people.

 

Also, the idea of humans or human-like entities existing in a futuristic authoritarian society that represses them has been an important part of science fiction for almost half a century. And the Fallout games reach very far in search of inspiration:

 

- Logan's Run (1967 book - Explicitly referenced in Fallout New Vegas): Mankind's population is controlled by killing anyone who hits 21. Those who try to run and escape this fate are hunted down by elite operatives called Sandmen. One of these elite operatives eventually tries to run himself.

 

- Blade Runner (1982 Film based on 1968 novel - referenced throughout Fallout series): The film depicts a dystopian Los Angeles in which genetically engineered replicants, which are visually indistinguishable from adult humans, are manufactured by the powerful Tyrell Corporation. The use of replicants on Earth is banned and they are exclusively utilized for dangerous or menial work on off-world colonies. Replicants who defy the ban and return to Earth are hunted down and killed ("retired") by special police operatives known as "Blade Runners".

 

- Cloud Atlas (2002 Book & 2012 Film): In the 2144 Neo Seoul section, a prominent part of the story are "fabricants", basically human clones who are used for slave labor and who have their humanity repressed. I won't go into spoilers in case you have not seen the movie or read the book but you get the picture....

 

Basically, it is a very evocative science fiction premise that was too good for the Fallout 4 developers to pass up.

Edited April 13, 2016 by CyrusAmell

[Moraelin]

Make that more like almost a century. The play that even coined the term "robot" in the very early '20s was precisely about some manufactured human-like slaves. That was the original meaning of "robot" before the clunky trash-barrel-on-legs things took over in the 50's and 60's SF.

[CyrusAmell]

Make that more like almost a century. The play that even coined the term "robot" in the very early '20s was precisely about some manufactured human-like slaves. That was the original meaning of "robot" before the clunky trash-barrel-on-legs things took over in the 50's and 60's SF.

 

I think I can safely say that we have all watched that ShoddyCast Episode.

[Moraelin]

Tbh, it's the first time I hear about ShoddyCast, but if they help spread some knowledge, it sounds like something good.