Bullet Damage

[hadoumastery]

We all know that in real life it isn't the gun that does the damage, but the bullet. So why is it that in NV the weapon calculates your damage? This is less of a request and more of an idea, since guns only account for accuracy and speed +mag size in real life, why not make it the same in NV? Instead of weapons damage, make them all do 0 damage and instead, use bullet data and make the do damage based on the bullet for instance using ammo effects to add 20 damage to the 5.56 bullet and just use the guns to calculate accuracy, clip size, and speed.

[ita]

That seems like doing an awful lot of work for something that wouldn't improve the game in any way. Why fix something that isn't broken?

[TheTalkieToaster]

You've pointed out how easy it would be to do, if you think it's worth doing then you could easily do it yourself.

[drakeelvin]

In principle this idea has merit; however, from the basic game design you have a lot of issues to overcome.

 

First, this would not be an easy mod to do if you consider effort because currently DAM is a feature of each individual weapon so you would have to modify every gun in the game, which is a long list.

 

Second, a number of diverse, unique guns use magical companion ammo or scripted ways to manage damage and effects, so you'd have to take into account different rules for all those special cases.

 

Third, given that it would break every single gun that uses custom ammunition from other mods (there are some very popular ammunition mods out there) you'd still have to have a default case that just assigned the existing gun DAM if you didn't recognize the type of ammo. In that sense it defeats the purpose of such a mod.

 

And fourth, you'd have to update your gun DAM every time the player pressed '2' to switch ammo types.

 

That is an awful lot of work for what would end up with the same or similar result.

 

I'm not trying to knock the idea because I do agree with it in principle; however, from the GECK internals this is not a simple thing to accomplish and other than a bit more realism I don't see a significant benefit from it. And most players won't even see it anyhow, they'll just see their DAM is about the same as it was.

 

Is there a major benefit besides a little more hidden realism?

 

EDIT: p.s. I am not even sure it is possible to dynamically change weapon DAM apart from using NVSE, I recall trying it once but couldn't find an object method that worked using the standard scripting. NVSE might allow it though, it does have a SetAttackDamage method but I've never tried that on a weapon.

Edited July 2, 2011 by drakeelvin

[TheTalkieToaster]

He suggested going it in the same way as Beanbag Rounds for shotguns work- have an Add Damage +X effect on each ammo. You wouldn't apply the changes to weapons with companion/robot ammo types.

[Moraelin]

We all know that in real life it isn't the gun that does the damage, but the bullet. So why is it that in NV the weapon calculates your damage? This is less of a request and more of an idea, since guns only account for accuracy and speed +mag size in real life, why not make it the same in NV? Instead of weapons damage, make them all do 0 damage and instead, use bullet data and make the do damage based on the bullet for instance using ammo effects to add 20 damage to the 5.56 bullet and just use the guns to calculate accuracy, clip size, and speed.

 

That's not entirely accurate. Differences in barrel length cause differences in muzzle velocity, and the kinetic energy packed by the bullet is mv²/2.

 

E.g., with the same .357 magnum rounds, last I've seen someone test barrel lengths vs muzzle velocity, it ranged from about 1000 fps for a 3" barrel, to almost 1500 fps for a 20" barrel. That's over twice the kinetic energy at the muzzle, hence the damage done. But already by 8", the kinetic energy is almost 50% higher than for a 3" barrel.

 

Additionally, for revolvers stuff like the size of the gap make a substantial difference too.

 

So, yes, the gun can make a difference in how much damage the bullet does. It's not realistic to expect the same damage from Lincoln's Repeater or La Longue Carabine as from a short barreled revolver, just because they use the same ammo.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Moraelin

[ozziefire]

Yep, I made the mistake of using GECK to change all the Shotguns default behaviour to solid slugs to better compare them as inaccurate rifles then added the buckshot effect as projectiles & spread to buckshot ammo but the problem I only realised recently is it doesn't work for any non vanilla shotguns added by others it just increases their spread badly. So I've had to go back to the drawing board again. Unfortunately in GECK you can modify ammo spread, damage etc with effects but not force it to a new value. I think it can be done in NVSE but then not everyone uses NVSE, so it restricts the mods audience.

[hadoumastery]

Yes there is a problem with other mods on the nexus. But I have already tested this just to be sure it could work, and in my game the weapons damages work perfectly all of the damages are working all of the damage modifiers for hollow point ammo and such still take effect properly, and I decided on not doing energy weapons since I suppose an energy weapons DAM would be done by how well it harnesses the energy it uses. My problem with being able to release this mod is that I have modded so many other guns from different mods into 1 complete mod lol. So there are so many works of other modders in it that I cannot release. But knowing that this works is great. It always got under my skin how weapons did the damage and not the bullet so you could have a gun that hits 50 with a 44mag and another that hits 75 with the same bullet.

 

I suppose it's more if you want it or not. But for me as an experienced modder I have no problems modifying my guns and bullets. I guess you could make a total mods collection version of it and keep it running for a long time for new mods that come out as well as other mods already on the nexus, but I think maybe a script could pull it off. Say... make a script that makes all weapon damages 0 and then have the modded bullet data which is where your damage would come from, but I am not yet that experienced with scripts so it'd take me some time to pull that off.

[ozziefire]

Yes there is a problem with other mods on the nexus. But I have already tested this just to be sure it could work, and in my game the weapons damages work perfectly all of the damages are working all of the damage modifiers for hollow point ammo and such still take effect properly, and I decided on not doing energy weapons since I suppose an energy weapons DAM would be done by how well it harnesses the energy it uses. My problem with being able to release this mod is that I have modded so many other guns from different mods into 1 complete mod lol. So there are so many works of other modders in it that I cannot release. But knowing that this works is great. It always got under my skin how weapons did the damage and not the bullet so you could have a gun that hits 50 with a 44mag and another that hits 75 with the same bullet.

 

I suppose it's more if you want it or not. But for me as an experienced modder I have no problems modifying my guns and bullets. I guess you could make a total mods collection version of it and keep it running for a long time for new mods that come out as well as other mods already on the nexus, but I think maybe a script could pull it off. Say... make a script that makes all weapon damages 0 and then have the modded bullet data which is where your damage would come from, but I am not yet that experienced with scripts so it'd take me some time to pull that off.

That's an interesting possibility, I may look into that idea, may not need NVSE comands either.

[hadoumastery]

That's an interesting possibility, I may look into that idea, may not need NVSE comands either.

 

I really hope this is a success.

 

-I however forgot to put in earlier that I had one problem, in my excitement of it working I forgot to add that you have to make each gun do 1 point base damage instead of 0. A damage of 0 makes it not even touch living things, but putting it at 1 damage allows it to hit things and the bullet does the rest. But still it does work.

Edited July 4, 2011 by hadoumastery