Rigging New Character Models for Fallout 4, Requirements?

[ShenmueScrolls]

Nightasy/BrainProof Has made some very indepth tutorials on rigging new characters .

 

The these videos are impossible to find via youtube since he has not named them 'Fallout 4' the he has named them:

1 - Overview and Prerequisites

He has stated his prerequisites as 3ds max 2016, Maya2016 and Photoshop, but in the first few videos I have looked at there is no explanation as to why 3ds Max 2016 & Maya2016 is required.

I have 3DS Max 2015 and the Nif Export/Import Plugin, I really want to know WHY Maya 2016 is required and can It be done with 3DS Max 2015 and if not is it likely to be possible in the future?

 

[EmissaryOfWind]

It's possible, Nightasy is planning to do a series on a purely 3ds max workflow, but he's a very busy guy so have some patience. Maya is required in that specific workflow because it has many of the scripts necessary, like the bone fix and weight transfer.

[cosmat]

Nightasy/BrainProof Has made some very indepth tutorials on rigging new characters .

 

The these videos are impossible to find via youtube since he has not named them 'Fallout 4' the he has named them:

1 - Overview and Prerequisites

He has stated his prerequisites as 3ds max 2016, Maya2016 and Photoshop, but in the first few videos I have looked at there is no explanation as to why 3ds Max 2016 & Maya2016 is required.

I have 3DS Max 2015 and the Nif Export/Import Plugin, I really want to know WHY Maya 2016 is required and can It be done with 3DS Max 2015 and if not is it likely to be possible in the future?

 

 

 

You should check out the rest of his channel if you havent already done so. That first video is the first in a series of 22 videos where he uses Maya primarily to create an object (a corset), rigs it, textures and imports it into Fallout 4. As of today 19 Apr if you sort his videos by "date added (newest)" then you will see the series of 22 videos at the top. Most of them are labeled Maya Workflow but some of them like the intro and setup arent labeled. You want to sort by date added newest since he has a bunch of video series.

 

The reason WHY any of those programs you mentioned is needed is covered in all of his videos. He's actually not like most people who make how-to videos...and i mean how-to videos in general like how to work on a car, build a pc, install a program or in our case create a mod. He is VERY thorough and he even goes over little tiny stuff like how to install plugins, where to install them and why you need to do it that way. Those are the kinds of details most other people just gloss over but he goes over them.

 

So anyways he uses Maya to create the model and he has his bone fix script in Maya, and he uses 3dsm as a workaround to flip UVs since i think Outfit Studio exports the FBX with inverted UVs or something. Dont even take my word for it...he goes over why you need all those programs. And if he doesnt or if i missed it and he forgot to mention, then when you get to video # XX in his series it will become clear why you need it. If you can figure it out on your own you can use 3dsm or Blender since thats what i did. I was more proficient with Blenders Knife utility so i brought my model into Blender and then knifed it and moved it back to Maya where i could follow Brain Poofs steps exactly.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/60197-should-i-go-forward-with-this-mod-now-or-just-wait-for-the-geck/

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3986860-what-programs-to-use-for-nif-to-blender-back-to-nif/

 

Those are my two threads on my modding experience. I started looking into it on 6 Apr and by 11 Apr at 1pm PST i had working models/textures in game. By about 7pm later that night i had done the process from scratch all over again and had the exact look that i wanted except for maybe the right textures on the CBBE body, i forgot to fix the textures on the sloot suit and i didnt bother to give the edge a raised look like i wanted. Emissary was actually the one that mentioned Brain Poof. I followed all the directions in his tutorials, installed all the programs he mentioned (he says where you can DL them too). The only substitution for his process was he modified his model in Maya...but i exported it out of Maya, imported it into Blender, Knifed the mesh, exported it and imported it back to Maya. But that kinda shows you how good his instructions are.

Edited April 20, 2016 by cosmat

[ShenmueScrolls]

It's possible, Nightasy is planning to do a series on a purely 3ds max workflow, but he's a very busy guy so have some patience. Maya is required in that specific workflow because it has many of the scripts necessary, like the bone fix and weight transfer.

 

This is good to know I wasnt sure if he was using Maya because It was the only way to rig models for Fo4 OR if it was just a requirement to follow his tutorials

 

You should check out the rest of his channel if you havent already done so. ..

 

The reason WHY any of those programs you mentioned is needed is covered in all of his videos. He's actually not like most people who make how-to videos...and i mean how-to videos in general like how to work on a car, build a pc, install a program or in our case create a mod. He is VERY thorough ..

 

When it comes to modding a game for the first time, there is always a mass of useless, irrellivant and sometimes obsolete information that needs to be sorted through and unless you are the type that arrived at the start of the modding scene and kept up with all technicallities its very frustrating to find the specific information you want. Google 'Fallout 4 Rigging' lol.

 

I went through quite an ordeal to learn the basics of Skryim Rigging but I got there in the end

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2497639-new-playable-skyrim-character-not-armour-model-rigging-tutorial/

Even now I cant find a step-by-step tutorial for 3DS Max Skyrim Rigging (although I did say I would make one :s I was planning on learning how to impliment the correct BSDismember locations beforehand)

 

The 3DS Max Updated Nif Import/Exporter doesnt appear to be any different for Fallout 4 I was hoping for some clear instructions but since Ive only just got to grips with 3ds max I'm really not looking to start learning how to use Maya (and Blender was created by a mad-man on LSD) If it can be done with just 3DS Max I would rather focus on that Path, and even then i'm worried about how many brick walls the changed Texture (and no alpha issues?) Since Fallout 4 modding has only just begun and the Creation Kit isnt out yet I suspect I would be better off waiting for methods to advance

[cosmat]

From the looks of it there was only one step that needed Maya and that was his bone fix script. If you can figure out a way to add a similar script into 3dsm or Blender then you shouldnt need Maya. I actually asked that question and was wondering if i could get a script into Blender for the bone fix. It shoud have been possible if i wanted to research it but i got lazy and just used Maya and followed his instructions on how to create the script. If you want more information on that then you can ask Brain Poof. But if you havent done so then watch his other videos. If you are knowledgable enough on 3dsm or Blender or whatever it is you are using you can say to yourself "ohh i can do that and that and this in 3dsm so i dont need Maya". I needed the legs on the Slooty Vault suit mesh chopped off. But i wasnt familiar with Mayas mesh tools, but i already knew how to do that with Blender. So instead I cut the mesh in Blender and used Maya to import/export and rig. Thats what i mean by you looking at the whole process and seeing if you can do all of it in 3dsm. He wont tell you to do a complex procedure without explaining the purpose for it. So since everything is explained really well you should be able to see if that's something you can do in 3dsm.

 

 

Just wondering though...do you not want to use Maya cause you have limited HD space? or is it only because you arent familiar with it? i only ever used Blender but even my knowledge there is very limited. I have under an hour of continous use on Blender and before i made my mod i had zero experience with Maya. I know how to follow instructions though and Brain Poof gives really good instructions. And factoring in that his model was freshly made and mine was someone elses model that i had to modify so i had to substitute and even ignore some of his steps since they didnt apply to me. And i was still able to get the model into game. I'm not trying to brag or anything but just saying that the steps for this are really easy in Maya.

Edited April 20, 2016 by cosmat

[ShenmueScrolls]

Just wondering though...do you not want to use Maya cause you have limited HD space? or is it only because you arent familiar with it?

 

Well initially it was because I am not familiar with the program , but I decided to give it a go and sure enough it was a complete balls-up but In a way it lead me to the correct answer for 3DS max

 

The first issue with these Maya Tutorials is that Nvidia drivers above 361.75 will mess up the FBX export .. which BOGGLES my mind how or why a display driver would do such a thing. Secondly although he does explain the basics of Maya Navigation because I am so used to navigating and creating things with 3DS max moving to Maya (much like using Blender) its like someone decided to pointlessly remap all of the key and mouse commands, its maddening Like playing FarCry 3 for hours and then switching to Fallout 4 and you keep pressing different buttons for run.

 

I originally began Modeling with Rhino3D and was greatly annoyed at 3DSmax for not having a draw quad function which I see Maya does have so im sure it has its uses. I just wish there was an industry standard that all modeling programs conformed to and when it comes down to Effort Vs Reward, I am simply not invested enough to learn Maya

 

Fortunately I dont have to because I know now that Maya2016 isnt required at all , the bone script for maya is obsolete in 3DS max with the new Niftools plugin. What I had completely forgotten was SkinWrap (or Bind in Maya) anyway I have now copied the skin weights from the original mesh and my model looks pretty good but having been through all that I cant test it ingame because I am running beta 1.5 and Bethesda have changed a bunch of stuff for the upcoming CK modding support and it seems that all existings mods are disabled

 

For now I think I will go back to Skyrim and work on creating some new races and wait for the Fallout 4 Creation Kit (July is my guess)

[cosmat]

Well if you are following Brain Poof's video tutorial series, rewinding if needed for any trouble spots i dont see why anything would go wrong. To break it down into a few simple steps:

 

export models out of outfit studio

import models into Maya and use bone fix script

mesh work in Maya

UV map the model

3dsm UV flip workaround (export it out of Maya to 3dsm to work export it out of 3dsm back to Maya)

rig the mesh and copy skin weights over etc

export to nifscope etc

 

Now if you were to watch his videos and see that you can substitute any of those steps in Blender or 3dsm then do that. The mesh work for example...he did his in Maya but i did mine in Blender. In the later part of the videos he transfers the nif skeleton and skin weights from one model to another. That other model needed those things because it had none of its own. Thats when i realized that if he has this step then it means i can go and modify my own mesh in Blender or 3dsm. Cause when he is working on his corset model in Maya all it is is a mesh with no skeleton. So i can modify something in Blender and if it has no skeleton or no skin weights it doesnt matter as long as i have the basic mesh. Because when i get that mesh back into Maya i'll be copying the nif skeleton, bone influences and skin weights to it anyways.

 

Thats why you watch the whole video series...if not to learn how to do all of it in Maya then to understand why he has to do a particular step and to see if you can do the same exact thing in 3dsm/Blender. If you know how to do a step in 3dsm then there's no need to do it in Maya right? In the above list where i named the basic steps he does his mesh work in Maya but i substituted that step and i did my mesh work in Blender. Then i was able to rejoin him again for the UV mapping step and onwards. If i knew how to UV map in Blender then i would have done that too in Blender and then rejoined him in the tutorial at the Maya rig mesh and copy skin weight/influences part.

 

EDIT: sorry if my last two paragraphs are a bit repetitive...i had to get up for a few minutes to do something and i lost my train of thought hehe

Edited April 21, 2016 by cosmat

[skubblebubble]

 

Just wondering though...do you not want to use Maya cause you have limited HD space? or is it only because you arent familiar with it?

 

Well initially it was because I am not familiar with the program , but I decided to give it a go and sure enough it was a complete balls-up but In a way it lead me to the correct answer for 3DS max

 

The first issue with these Maya Tutorials is that Nvidia drivers above 361.75 will mess up the FBX export .. which BOGGLES my mind how or why a display driver would do such a thing. Secondly although he does explain the basics of Maya Navigation because I am so used to navigating and creating things with 3DS max moving to Maya (much like using Blender) its like someone decided to pointlessly remap all of the key and mouse commands, its maddening Like playing FarCry 3 for hours and then switching to Fallout 4 and you keep pressing different buttons for run.

 

I originally began Modeling with Rhino3D and was greatly annoyed at 3DSmax for not having a draw quad function which I see Maya does have so im sure it has its uses. I just wish there was an industry standard that all modeling programs conformed to and when it comes down to Effort Vs Reward, I am simply not invested enough to learn Maya

 

Fortunately I dont have to because I know now that Maya2016 isnt required at all , the bone script for maya is obsolete in 3DS max with the new Niftools plugin. What I had completely forgotten was SkinWrap (or Bind in Maya) anyway I have now copied the skin weights from the original mesh and my model looks pretty good but having been through all that I cant test it ingame because I am running beta 1.5 and Bethesda have changed a bunch of stuff for the upcoming CK modding support and it seems that all existings mods are disabled

 

For now I think I will go back to Skyrim and work on creating some new races and wait for the Fallout 4 Creation Kit (July is my guess)

 

 

Multiple threads about getting mods working in 1.5

 

and take a look at the first post.

 

:)

[ShenmueScrolls]

Has anyone completed the process Entirely with 3DS Max & Nifskope?, I found another 'speed process' video but again they use 3DS Max & Maya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-wLZM6fAPM

 

EDIT: Found this recent Blender Tutorial

Once again they are using an additional 3D Program as well as Max, I havent read it all but all the steps should be possible in Max. It also shows how to use the new Material editor I was worried about that.

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Fallout_4._Part_1#Import_into_Blender_all_parts_of_the_body

Edited May 6, 2016 by ShenmueScrolls

[Bromancelot]

Nightsay does get in depth when it comes to animation, and using the character asset skeleton, yes. However he doesn't explain how to make a custom skeleton... Like for say.... An arachnid from starship troopers.

 

I.E. making a quadruped, with half it's body as a top and bottom jawbone, and mantis type arms.

 

FOR THAT you have to make a skeleton from scratch, then make all of it's custom animations, get NifSkope, and FO4E/CAR to recognize it as a skeleton, and custom race.

 

This is where true frustration and perseverance come in

 

The real obstacle is getting CR or what have you, to recognize a custom race, and skeleton in game.

Edited October 25, 2017 by SirMcSourTowel