Argonian Lore issues explored

[ZurinArctus85]

So besides the obvious of female argonians having breasts, I have a few explorations and questions.

1. Are argonians warm blooded? In Windhelm most of the Argonians would die because of the cold.

2. When an argonian is born, they are connected to the hist. Is there any way an argonian would be able to be born without a connection to the hist without extremely powerful necromancy? Here's a quote from Wikia:
"Argonians start out in life as eggs; when a clutch of Argonian eggs is laid, they are placed near Hist trees in areas known as hatching pools. When the eggs hatch, they form a connection to the Hist. If, for whatever reason, this connection to the Hist is not present or is severed, the unborn within the eggs die."

A good example of this is in ESO where you can find an Argonian named Ja-Reet who wasn't connected to the hist.

 

It is not clear if Ja-Reet suffered from his lack of a connection, however I feel that since Aetherius' connection to the Hist and thus to him was absent if, say, another Argonian were to be born with no connection that some other greater power could make its way into him/her, maybe if the Argonian is born under a great influence of the Khajiiti they may have Night Eye or if they were somehow born in Summerset Isle, they'd be born with an incredible amount of magicka stores.

 

There is a massive amount of lore for quite a bit of the Elder Scrolls universe, however there is hardly anything in terms of the Argonians. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[monganfinn]

The Hist are special in so far that they can bestow souls on Argonians, not only on the Saxheel we see ingame, and even change their biological makeup with their sap. I highly doubt you could substitute the influence of the Hist on Argonian hatchlings with some other race.

 

So how did Ja-Reet survive? Perhaps similar to the player or Serana who heal themselves of vampirism with a soulgem?? Let´s say the Hist dont influence his consciousness but only his soul stuff, in that case it could be possible to substitute the involvement of the Hist with a black soul gem.

Note that it also was possible in some game to cure vampirism with hist sap, I believe, so the method of healing vampirism can be achieved through these two methods: soul gem or hist sap. Coincidence?

[ZurinArctus85]

The Hist are special in so far that they can bestow souls on Argonians, not only on the Saxheel we see ingame, and even change their biological makeup with their sap. I highly doubt you could substitute the influence of the Hist on Argonian hatchlings with some other race.

 

So how did Ja-Reet survive? Perhaps similar to the player or Serana who heal themselves of vampirism with a soulgem?? Let´s say the Hist dont influence his consciousness but only his soul stuff, in that case it could be possible to substitute the involvement of the Hist with a black soul gem.

Note that it also was possible in some game to cure vampirism with hist sap, I believe, so the method of healing vampirism can be achieved through these two methods: soul gem or hist sap. Coincidence?

I don't believe that his survival was due to the hist. Perhaps a soul gem had something to do with it, but I think his survival is much more than it seems. What could it be? I have no idea. Divine intervention?

[monganfinn]

For a single simple Argonian? Na, unless you can provide some link that he was raised in a temple of the Divines or he is some mythic Hero.

[BigBizkit]

Ehm, doesn't this quote imply that every Argonian embryo needs to be connected to the hist or they die?

 

So, essentially every Argonian must be born somewhere where there are hist trees.

 

 

This seems like something that is quite likely going to be retconned, if it hasn't been already, because, from a writing perspective, it constitutes one hell of a limitation.

[monganfinn]

Not really much of a limitation compared to now - there are no Argonian children in Skyrim, nor Morrowind or Cyrodiil during Oblivion.

 

The Saxheel, the Argonians we see ingame, are practically slaves to the Hist and their way to interact with races or act outside the borders of Black Marsh, they wouldnt like their slaves to become independent. I dont know if they really need physical contact with the tree, perhaps the sap of the Hist is enough, in that case people may cary a bit of it around with them.

[ZurinArctus85]

Not really much of a limitation compared to now - there are no Argonian children in Skyrim, nor Morrowind or Cyrodiil during Oblivion.

 

The Saxheel, the Argonians we see ingame, are practically slaves to the Hist and their way to interact with races or act outside the borders of Black Marsh, they wouldnt like their slaves to become independent. I dont know if they really need physical contact with the tree, perhaps the sap of the Hist is enough, in that case people may cary a bit of it around with them.

The fact that there are no children in Oblivion or Morrowind was a morality issue on behalf of Bethesda. The inclusion of children was a new thing, which is why you can't kill them.

[Riprock]

If they form a connection upon hatching, the embryo does not form the connection. Upon hatching, there is no embryo.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

1. Are argonians warm blooded? In Windhelm most of the Argonians would die because of the cold.

According to Argonian folk knowledge, Argonians are descended from the Hist. So either Hist Trees are animals or Argonians are plants or (and I suspect this is the case:) both are some sort of aetherial hybrid state. In any case, "hot or cold blood" probably doesn't apply to them.

2. When an argonian is born, they are connected to the hist. Is there any way an argonian would be able to be born without a connection to the hist without extremely powerful necromancy?

I haven't read any examples of Argonians born away from the Hist outside of ESO. Since the function of the hist in Argonian reproduction is to nurture the egg, I imagine some sort of surrogacy could formed to replace the role of the Hist--which might still be high-level magic but doesn't necessarily have to be necromancy.
If the ESO counts as canon to you, then http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Strange_Case_of_Ja-Reet might be of interest. There's no mention of magical intervention in Ja-Reet's birth, but it does say he lacks social intuition that other Argonians possess, which would suggest that the role of the hist is to provide a spiritual/social connection to The Hist and Other Argonians. At face value, that might not sound like too big a deal, but human (or in this case, Hist/Argonian) contact is an extremely important element of childhood development, and isolation is understood to have sometimes very extreme negative health effects. Ja-Reet's symptoms (difficulty reading others, forming bonds, failure to assimilate into society) do appear to be analogous to those of victims of early childhood neglect. So that's a starting point in terms of figuring out how separation from the Hist might work.

[ZurinArctus85]

 

1. Are argonians warm blooded? In Windhelm most of the Argonians would die because of the cold.

According to Argonian folk knowledge, Argonians are descended from the Hist. So either Hist Trees are animals or Argonians are plants or (and I suspect this is the case:) both are some sort of aetherial hybrid state. In any case, "hot or cold blood" probably doesn't apply to them.

2. When an argonian is born, they are connected to the hist. Is there any way an argonian would be able to be born without a connection to the hist without extremely powerful necromancy?

I haven't read any examples of Argonians born away from the Hist outside of ESO. Since the function of the hist in Argonian reproduction is to nurture the egg, I imagine some sort of surrogacy could formed to replace the role of the Hist--which might still be high-level magic but doesn't necessarily have to be necromancy.

If the ESO counts as canon to you, then http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Strange_Case_of_Ja-Reet might be of interest. There's no mention of magical intervention in Ja-Reet's birth, but it does say he lacks social intuition that other Argonians possess, which would suggest that the role of the hist is to provide a spiritual/social connection to The Hist and Other Argonians. At face value, that might not sound like too big a deal, but human (or in this case, Hist/Argonian) contact is an extremely important element of childhood development, and isolation is understood to have sometimes very extreme negative health effects. Ja-Reet's symptoms (difficulty reading others, forming bonds, failure to assimilate into society) do appear to be analogous to those of victims of early childhood neglect. So that's a starting point in terms of figuring out how separation from the Hist might work.

 

So if something could take the place of the Hist it's still possible.