MCM Brainstorm

[waterlogic]

As far as I know, nobody is currently working on an MCM system like SkyUI yet. So, thought I would start a thread for discussing approaches and maybe encouraging someone to take the project on.

 

I noticed that you can assign a swf file to holotapes in the CK. This seems like it could make a new MCM system very easy to build and use. You can even attach a script per tape.

 

A few approaches:

 

1. Make an MCM holotape template swf that is easy for modders to configure. Then each mod that needs config comes with its own separate MCM holotape.

2. Make one MCM holotape that registers and displays all mod configs. Basically, the MCM menu within a holotape.

 

Interested to hear ideas...

[RustyXXL]

Well, or you could simply use standard holotapes to make mod configuration menus, as ie dynavision and some others already do.

[matzman666]

Well, or you could simply use standard holotapes to make mod configuration menus, as ie dynavision and some others already do.

 

Holotapes are only a temporary solution till we have a proper MCM. Compared to Skyrim's MCM Holotapes only offer very limited functionality. They only work well for simple menus, when you have a more complex or even a dynamic menu, you soon reach the limits of what is possible. Also, text replacements only work on terminals and not on the pipboy, restricting you further. One of my mods actually started as a case study about what is possible with holotapes. You can do more advanced stuff like seemingly endless lists, but a lot of effort is required for implementing them. I always thought Skyrim's MCM is cumbersome to use, but compared to holotapes it is very easy to use and user-friendly.

 

However, on consoles holotapes will probably the only solution for configuration menus. That's why I will probably drop console support as soon as we have a FO4 MCM.

[RustyXXL]

I didn't realize you were the one behind the SMS..:P

Well I only just about started with holotape menus when the CK released, and didn't run into any of the issues you mentioned, and for the moment they work quite well, but I guess I don't exactly know the limits, so sorry about that.

Still They are quite useful, and probably enough for a lot of mods, that wouldn't need a full blown mcm anyway.

[waterlogic]

Well, or you could simply use standard holotapes to make mod configuration menus, as ie dynavision and some others already do.

 

I've seen those mods. That's not the same thing as making a framework version that makes it easier to set up for modders that may not have the ability to build from scratch.

 

 

Well, or you could simply use standard holotapes to make mod configuration menus, as ie dynavision and some others already do.

 

Holotapes are only a temporary solution till we have a proper MCM. Compared to Skyrim's MCM Holotapes only offer very limited functionality. They only work well for simple menus, when you have a more complex or even a dynamic menu, you soon reach the limits of what is possible. Also, text replacements only work on terminals and not on the pipboy, restricting you further. One of my mods actually started as a case study about what is possible with holotapes. You can do more advanced stuff like seemingly endless lists, but a lot of effort is required for implementing them. I always thought Skyrim's MCM is cumbersome to use, but compared to holotapes it is very easy to use and user-friendly.

 

However, on consoles holotapes will probably the only solution for configuration menus. That's why I will probably drop console support as soon as we have a FO4 MCM.

 

 

It looks like there is a type of holotype (they used it for the game tapes) that uses a swf. So, it seems like you could put the same functionality as SkyUI into a swf holotape and achieve all of the same functionality.

 

Did you see something that would limit that?

[matzman666]

 

It looks like there is a type of holotype (they used it for the game tapes) that uses a swf. So, it seems like you could put the same functionality as SkyUI into a swf holotape and achieve all of the same functionality.

 

Did you see something that would limit that?

 

The problem with using swf holodisks that you cannot communicate with scaleform from Papyrus (yet), only from scaleform to Papyrus. It's impossible to implement a proper MCM when you can only communicate one-way. F4SE will probably implement two-way communication at some point, but we have to wait till then, and F4SE is also not a viable solution for consoles.

[waterlogic]

 

 

It looks like there is a type of holotype (they used it for the game tapes) that uses a swf. So, it seems like you could put the same functionality as SkyUI into a swf holotape and achieve all of the same functionality.

 

Did you see something that would limit that?

 

The problem with using swf holodisks that you cannot communicate with scaleform from Papyrus (yet), only from scaleform to Papyrus. It's impossible to implement a proper MCM when you can only communicate one-way. F4SE will probably implement two-way communication at some point, but we have to wait till then, and F4SE is also not a viable solution for consoles.

 

 

Well. An MCM system like SkyUI doesn't appear to be possible (or at least practical) at all without a swf solution. I was starting the thread just to share ideas about how it should be set up, assuming that F4SE will likely add the scaleform communication soon.

 

I don't see any signs that the SkyUI devs are going to make one for FO4. Expired had said that he would build one. But, then he pulled his recent LooksMenu mod and seemed to disappear. Could just be busy, etc. But, maybe he doesn't want to be as invested this time around. I figured that it wouldn't hurt to try to get the ball rolling with a discussion about it.

 

Good point about consoles. I feel like Bethesda is going to have to look at a solution for that at some point. Not having config menus for console mods seems like a pretty big disadvantage. I guess you could probably still place a custom swf that loads an ini file for config.

Edited April 30, 2016 by waterlogic