Comprehensive Stealth/Guerilla Warfare Mod

[TeamDragonpunk]

 

5. Have everything configurable through a single UI that uses the Long War Toolbox Option's Menu.

 

TBH... even if that LWS newest method to integrate a solid "Options Menu" feature seems to be a most optimal solution to a number of current issues -- it's really too bad that it has been supplied along with other modding assets that broke a few other essential mods (( for me! )) like ShowMeTheSkills or MoreSquadSizeUpgrades or SWRHiddenPotential and some more!

 

Soooo, i can only wish they'll just think about splitting the functionalities of both Tuple & Options-Menu in (somehow) stand-alone products for most of us who'd prefer to keep the familiar mods they currently are satisfied with and NOT loose the extra power devices that may become important later down the curve of modding pipelines. I understand we would be better off making certain critical choices as soon as possible but it's a bit enforced, AFAIC.

 

 

First, I'm sorry that it broke your mods man! I'm not sure why Firaxis has them still developing under NDA now that the game is out. That makes no sense to me. Wanted to ask though, how does it break ShowMeTheSkills. I'm going to need to dig deeper into their code. I love the way they are handling 12 Soldiers, and hopefully our Tactical Co-Op design is still valid since we're extending the "Select Soldier" button in SquadSelection.

[Zyxpsilon]

Not only my (preferred mods) but it's the same wrecking situation for everyone's!

 

It's the 12 Soldiers LWS-feature that "breaks" the scrolling function (necessary to still show more than the default 6) and the generic custom framework that mod must use to deploy distinct areas containing the Stats and another with Skills/Ability/Icons.

So when the new principles take over (Loadout GFX file) to stack its own double deck of 6x2.. it has to redesign how details & infos get distributed in the available space.

Take a quick look at this...

 

 

 

http://s32.postimg.org/mklzdbvl1/Inserting_FLAGS_Test1.png

 

 

 

Sooooo... the bottom areas are simply scrapped by ToolBox since they have overridden whatever code "ShowMeTheSkills" had re-created for its specific needs.

 

Similarily.. the Barracks list has also been redesigned to make room for the Icons+Values stats which were already provided by "ShowMeTheStats" mod -- in a different manner. Side-Panel or self-displaying horizontal bars upon hovering each individual slots. Somehow less-intrusive... and yet, i got used to it.

 

When i loaded up Toolbox for curiosity & testing... those lines simply felt a bit too crowded. But that has a very good reason; the HUD calibration of XC2 Text strings and Values is slightly tighter than what XC1 had (example with my ReCLR assets made for LongWar);

 

 

 

http://s32.postimg.org/tuf1gmun9/Rank_Tags_Hint.jpg

 

 

 

Conclusion... i still would enjoy (or prefer) using their "Mod-Options" & "Tuple" stuff but not **some** of the other features -- if given the choice. As of now, i can't -- since it is all packaged together.

[Dethraker]

OK so far i have a few ideas roughly implemented:

 

Stealthy Gear: armor,weapons and equipment that will add the ability to the player will reduce his detection radius by other enemies, similar to the SMG mod those will offer some tradeoffs for the higher stealthiness of the weapons - after all you would suspect a guy in a jacket a whole lot less than one with a full armor

 

Suppressed Weapons: those will be tricky to implement without overriding abilities or templates (i think a highlander mod will be a good idea if we want to go with this and just overhaul it significantly) Currently i have set up silenced abilities to be used with silenced weapons, Pistols as main weapons will be very concealable but also do much less damage.

 

Comms Delay: Enemies should only be able to notify other units of XCom being in play if they live through first turn of activation, still need to consider balance and maybe get a "Raise the alarm" ability on the AI trees or leave it as a timer on turns like it is now, right now i have an ability on all soldiers that conceals the squad if within 1 turn of squad concealment broken they have no engaging enemies on the map.

 

Concepts and ideas

 

Smaller Squads: The starting squad size will become smaller at 2 and have upgradability up to 6 soldiers.

 

Smaller yet more numerous pods: Most pods will include either 1-2 lower level enemies+a commander unit OR a strong unit (archeon/andromedon/muton/avatar ect.) to balance out the smaller squad size, will scale with progress and squad size, also there would be more pods to increase by 1.5x-2x the number of enemies on the map, those rewarding stealth but not discouraging attacking the enemy head on.

 

New Mission types and modified mission objectives: abolish the "Neutralize all enemy targets" on most missions, leaving those to the retaliation missions and possibly train raid missions. New missions that demand stealth to be preserved with smaller squad sizes allowed (no more than 3). Abolish the timers (or at least shorten them and stop them from ticking while concealed) while on missions which aren't described as time critical (like crates), New missions to assassinate/abduct a target (without a timer, keep the timed one intact) i can go on and on...

 

New Stealth centred items: Ghost grenade, Special Ammo that does more damage while concealed, miniaturized grenades etc.

 

New Abilities: No Squadsight penalty when concealed, Disrupt re enforcement calls, Incapacitate enemies etc.

 

Now most of these will need some sprite work, sound work and model work, i would also love to have new animations for stealthy units to walk like a civilian and have all kinds of animations for concealed weaponry (like pistols).

 

 

 

1)Stealthy Gear: Are you planning to trade mobility for an added stealth rating? In other words when you take a lighter weapon it doesn't increase your mobility but instead makes you less likely to be revealed(detection radius). I just see the increase in mobility + a decrease in detection radius as a bit overpowering.

 

2)Comms Delay: In the instance that you wipe everyone in the area out in one turn will nothing else happen? In order to add to the challenge shouldn't there be a mechanic to either start a timer before the unit is discovered or have a patrol sent to investigate why the group is no longer responding? If not on all missions it would really add to the challenge for specific "high security" areas to make the player evaluate the entire field before starting their first engagement. After they engage one group they'll have so many turns before that group needs to "check in" and the failure to do so alerts the area.

 

3)Smaller Squads & New Mission Types: I see an opportunity here. The focus will be on smaller squads, but in the instance that things do go loud it would be great to have multiple spawn points. If you fail to completely eliminate a group in a single engagement and they manage to sound the alarm you can call in an extraction squad. Maybe it requires some research or training project.

[TeamDragonpunk]

ALL:

 

If we need to make a multiple initial mods or a "Highlander Mod" initially, that's certainly fine within the context of Agile development processes. From what I've seen though, there is no reason that necessitates this being one. I suggest we study Grimy's Mods to understand where he hooks in, and to ensure compatibility. If we need to add a hook to the LWS Tuples Mod, then we should submit that request to LWS. In regards to adding additional hooks to a universal mod framework, I wrote this:

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3882135-x2eventmanager-as-an-enterprise-service-bus/?p=37289270

 

The LWS Toolbox is fantastic, and I'm more than happy to develop all our mods around it. As the community chooses one standard however, I think we should ask the developer (be it MCM or LWS Toolbox) to make the code publicly available on GitHub.

[Deleted32045420User]

Ok i've looked at the grimy loot mod and it dosnt do what i need to not override weapons, right now my ModBuddy is not working (upgraded to win 10 last night... thanks microsoft) hopefully i'll be able to dig a little later today

[TeamDragonpunk]

Ok i've looked at the grimy loot mod and it dosnt do what i need to not override weapons, right now my ModBuddy is not working (upgraded to win 10 last night... thanks microsoft) hopefully i'll be able to dig a little later today

 

Ok, what exactly do you need to do then? Sorry for the confusion. While I haven't dug as deep into the code for this (since I'm focused on Co-Op), I just "assumed" that Dragonpunk could duplicate his process and attach whatever stealth abilities desired to a sound suppressor gun mod.

[Deleted32045420User]

 

Ok, what exactly do you need to do then? Sorry for the confusion. While I haven't dug as deep into the code for this (since I'm focused on Co-Op), I just "assumed" that Dragonpunk could duplicate his process and attach whatever stealth abilities desired to a sound suppressor gun mod.

 

I want to reduce the sound signature on individual guns which is a property that is defined in the templates, that means (according to what i know right now) that we'll need to create new weapons templates for silenced weapons instead of adding a modifier to them OR create a highlander mod to change how the check works inside the weapon templates

Edited May 2, 2016 by Guest

[TeamDragonpunk]

 

 

Ok, what exactly do you need to do then? Sorry for the confusion. While I haven't dug as deep into the code for this (since I'm focused on Co-Op), I just "assumed" that Dragonpunk could duplicate his process and attach whatever stealth abilities desired to a sound suppressor gun mod.

 

I want to reduce the sound signature on individual guns which is a property that is defined in the templates, that means (according to what i know right now) that we'll need to create new weapons templates for silenced weapons instead of adding a modifier to them OR create a highlander mod to change how the check works inside the weapon templates

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm still trying to wrap my head around templates. My thought would be that we extend (make a child of a gun template). Ie Template Shotgun_Silenced extends Shotgun. This is added to the template list for the Template Manager and does not require being a highlander mod.

[Deleted32045420User]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm still trying to wrap my head around templates. My thought would be that we extend (make a child of a gun template). Ie Template Shotgun_Silenced extends Shotgun. This is added to the template list for the Template Manager and does not require being a highlander mod.

 

 

No, you have a few Item template classes: weapons,grenades and heavy weapons(to put on heavy armor) each weapon is a template that's based on one of these 3 classes, these classes have all kinds of parameters and functions but they act like abilities in terms of adding to the game. i can override templates with ease the problem is that i dont know if there's any way to change the behavior of any one instance of a template rather then the whole template (which i fear would propagate the changes to all the items of that template) in short more testing is needed i'll try to finish that by the end of the week.

[TeamDragonpunk]

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm still trying to wrap my head around templates. My thought would be that we extend (make a child of a gun template). Ie Template Shotgun_Silenced extends Shotgun. This is added to the template list for the Template Manager and does not require being a highlander mod.

 

 

No, you have a few Item template classes: weapons,grenades and heavy weapons(to put on heavy armor) each weapon is a template that's based on one of these 3 classes, these classes have all kinds of parameters and functions but they act like abilities in terms of adding to the game. i can override templates with ease the problem is that i dont know if there's any way to change the behavior of any one instance of a template rather then the whole template (which i fear would propagate the changes to all the items of that template) in short more testing is needed i'll try to finish that by the end of the week.

 

 

Ok, understood. I'll look into Grimy Loot Mod tonight and Git Gud. He has various types of legendary weapons with unique abilities assigned to each. That led me to believe that it was possible to extend a weapon while not affecting the parent weapon class or template.