Adding resource items from mods to CS permanently

[foxgrin]

Brand new to modding and looked through totorials for answer to my question but could only find info on adding/editing a new (single) item.

 

I've dl several of the rugs/tapestries/furniture resource files and one of them gave me instructions (for the CS) on how to click on static, right click in the editor list and add nif files one at a time. That I can do for the mod I'm working on w/o any problem. Then I save my mod and when I reload that mod later in the CS to make changes the added items are still in the list.

 

Is there a way to add the items permanently so they can be used in any mod without having to re-add them for each new mod?

[Vagrant0]

Brand new to modding and looked through totorials for answer to my question but could only find info on adding/editing a new (single) item.

 

I've dl several of the rugs/tapestries/furniture resource files and one of them gave me instructions (for the CS) on how to click on static, right click in the editor list and add nif files one at a time. That I can do for the mod I'm working on w/o any problem. Then I save my mod and when I reload that mod later in the CS to make changes the added items are still in the list.

 

Is there a way to add the items permanently so they can be used in any mod without having to re-add them for each new mod?

No, not without forcefully adding them to the Oblivion.esm which would totally and completely ruin anyone elses ability to use your mod, even if they had the files themselves. The closest you would be able to get would be creating your own .esm containing all the CS entries, but as this sort of thing can create issues with load orders, and require that exact .esm in order to use your mod, even that isn't usually a good idea. Additionally, since such a .esm (containing lots of different statics and stuff) would likely contain works from other people, or otherwise be too small to be practical to use as a .esm (if it is less than 50 entries, spanning stuff beyond what you are personally using, you're best off using a different method). Since it would contain content from others, you would need permission from them to include both the .esm and the files. You might be able to talk a few people into allowing you to combine their works within a single .esm, but many authors either insist on people downloading their original mod, or are simply unavailable to get permission.

 

Technically, before even re-linking someone elses models into your mod, you should already be familiar with their terms of use. Some people don't seem to care as long as you provide credit, others forbid you from resharing their files as part of your mod, and a few others even diaspprove of that.

 

Even if you have permissions to combine and re-release content as part of a resource pack, such a combination would still cause conflicts with any previous works which used those statics if the names were the same. It would also create some doubling with any mods that had those statics defined previously, and would naturally not be backwards compatable.

 

In most cases, unless you're dealing with an entire tileset, you're usually best off just re-defining those statics any time you use the meshes they would be linked to. While you could probably use some sort of .esp as a sort of generic starting point (just a .esp containing all the CS entries, and saved outside the data folder, to be opened as active, and renamed any time you want to use those entries later) in order to save some time if you're working along with some sort of theme, but will likely make several different mods. However each mod made with that .esp as a starting point would require renaming all the entries to unique names in order to work with any other .esp which had the same base.

 

All that said, unless it cannot be prevented otherwise, you're really better off just using as many of the standard statics as possible. Trying to include parts from other mods just doesn't usually work too well, and there isn't enough solidarity for anyone to start putting together a sort or resource pack containing alot of different things in an effort to avoid this sort of problem.

[foxgrin]

 

"Even if you have permissions to combine and re-release content as part of a resource pack, such a combination would still cause conflicts with any previous works which used those statics if the names were the same. It would also create some doubling with any mods that had those statics defined previously, and would naturally not be backwards compatable."

 

Thanx for your help. :) If I understand you correctly you are saying that the resource rugs and tapestries mods that I downloaded to use in my mods can only be used once and that if I put them in any other mods (with the same nif file names) I could only run one of those mods at a time (in my game) or there will be conflicts?

 

So I need to rename the nif files whenever I use them in new mods? How do they differ from the vanilla Oblivion nif files, or do they? Do I need to rename the Oblivion nif files also when I re-use them in my new mods? The Wiki Tutorial didn't mention this. Fortunately I've only made one mod so far. Whew!

 

Thanx for your warnings though I would never use anyone's mods or items from thier mods (for upload) without thier permission. Right now I'm only making personal mods but if I ever become proficient enough to create mods worth uploading I wouldn't want to cause problems for anyone who may download them.

[Abramul]

Using the same .NIF more than once works fine. What might cause problems is having more than one object using the same EditorID...although I was under the impression that the use of FormIDs in-game was supposed to help with this.

[Vagrant0]

Using the same .NIF more than once works fine. What might cause problems is having more than one object using the same EditorID...although I was under the impression that the use of FormIDs in-game was supposed to help with this.

No, the form IDs don't really help with editor ID conflicts, the form IDs are realy there to povide a greater limit to the number of mods and references that can be placed without the chance that one reference would conflict with another due to both having the same form ID (believe it was a rare but serious issue in morrowind). Editor ID conflicts would be more in line with having 2 items with the same internal name across different mods. Based on the loading order, one item would overwrite the other, which would make one mod work fine, but would probably break aspects of the other mod which were dependant on that particular item. With statics this isn't much of an issue, but with anything used in scripting, this can be a serious issue. At any rate, having conflicts is never a good idea, and should probably be avoided wherever possible. Often authors use a specific set of characters at the beginning of their items to help get around this since then they would only conflict with things they made themselves. I've personally been known to use 3. VG0 for mods I release, VGX for mods made to test things, and NTS for things which I wouldn't distribute if I could help it. By doing that, even if I end up doing the same things in seperate mods (multiple times), I reduce the chances that I would have any naming conflicts. I just make sure that I only use one of them (changing names if needed) when I release anything in order to prevent issues with others.

[foxgrin]

Quote: Vagrant0: "Often authors use a specific set of characters at the beginning of their items to help get around this since then they would only conflict with things they made themselves. I've personally been known to use 3. VG0 for mods I release, VGX for mods made to test things, and NTS for things which I wouldn't distribute if I could help it. By doing that, even if I end up doing the same things in seperate mods (multiple times), I reduce the chances that I would have any naming conflicts. I just make sure that I only use one of them (changing names if needed) when I release anything in order to prevent issues with others." End Quote

 

So do you make a dulplicate of each item you place and rename them or do you just rename them before you place them (or can it be done afterwards?)

[Vagrant0]

Quote: Vagrant0: "Often authors use a specific set of characters at the beginning of their items to help get around this since then they would only conflict with things they made themselves. I've personally been known to use 3. VG0 for mods I release, VGX for mods made to test things, and NTS for things which I wouldn't distribute if I could help it. By doing that, even if I end up doing the same things in seperate mods (multiple times), I reduce the chances that I would have any naming conflicts. I just make sure that I only use one of them (changing names if needed) when I release anything in order to prevent issues with others." End Quote

 

So do you make a dulplicate of each item you place and rename them or do you just rename them before you place them (or can it be done afterwards?)

You can change the editorID at any time, just make sure you say not to create a new form (which people would normally do when doing other modding). It's probably better to do this first since you're more likely to remember, and have less chance of conflicts popping up when you go to test it. But really, you're usually best off only defining things you need to use within that particular mod. You may even want to avoid using them, and instead using the standard statics everywhere you can, only adding the new ones when the mod is done and needs a certain special touch somewhere, to help avoid excess entries.

[foxgrin]

Quote Vagrant0: [You can change the editorID at any time, just make sure you say not to create a new form (which people would normally do when doing other modding). It's probably better to do this first since you're more likely to remember, and have less chance of conflicts popping up when you go to test it. But really, you're usually best off only defining things you need to use within that particular mod. You may even want to avoid using them, and instead using the standard statics everywhere you can, only adding the new ones when the mod is done and needs a certain special touch somewhere, to help avoid excess entries.

 

Thanx for your advise Vagrant. I will try to stick to using the standard static items as much as possible.

 

Want to make sure I've got this correct. I rename items if they are not standard static items. Standard means they are used in most of the vanilla buildings and outdoor areas of the game. Items like thrones, specialty rugs and banners from castles or the guilds are not standard so they need to be renamed if used in a mod. I only say yes to creating a new form when I'm editing the base of an item otherwise I say no. Is this correct?

 

What about working lights, fires, beds, chairs, containers and other non-static (yet standard) items? Do they need to be renamed when placed in mods?

[Abramul]

'Standard' means they exist in Oblivion.esm, and were not added to it by Shivering Isles. Unless you're making a mod for SI, in which case the latter part doesn't apply.

[foxgrin]

'Standard' means they exist in Oblivion.esm, and were not added to it by Shivering Isles. Unless you're making a mod for SI, in which case the latter part doesn't apply.

 

Thanx Abramul for your help :)

 

So does non-standard also include modded resource items like rug, tapestry and furniture sets for download? Or would that depend on wether they are made from scratch items (like the comfy couches and chairs) or ones that were just modded standard items?