Novac Crashes- This will (probably) fix it

[DarkHighlord69]

Novac Crashes

 

Most of the time (80-90%), the crashes on fast travel/normal travel into Novac are the result of a corrupt save game, or a mod that has some kind of AI and level list/equipment conflict with the Novac cells. In most cases it seems to be a combination of both, but the major underlying reason is ALWAYS going to be a corrupt save game.

 

After over 48 hours of hardcore testing and data runs this is the only reason I can consistently find for all my crashes and for crashes which several very experienced modders/testers were having. In my case it was a corrupt save combined with a few overhaul/global change type mods.

 

I had this problem right after the 1.3 patch release, and solved it by going back about 50 saves and deleting all my corrupt and crashing save games.

 

Now with 1.4 and a complete reinstall of the game it was occuring again, but only on the last 10-15 saves I had made.

 

The best way to solve the crashes is to go back in your saves and find one where you can still fast travel to Novac. You might have to enter TMM 1 into the console if it is a game from before you got to Novac. You can go back to a clean save so you don't have all the markers revealed after that. That is the only thing that seems to work if you are having the CTDs.

 

Once you find a good clean save, then proceed on with game play. I can't find any other way to do this, and also if you do have a corrupt game, it will fubar and gork the whole rest of the game for you. Playing on a corrupt save is not something you should do, or can do for very long.

 

This is what will tell you if your save is corrupt. Let me say that in every instance of a corrupt save I tested, this was the one sure sign of that. If you have managed to get to Novac but then are crashing with more than 25-30 mods active, or find that you cannot fast travel with more than 25-30 mods activated, then you have a corrupt save, no debate possible.

 

If you are still having crashes on fast travel with a clean save, or loading a clean save inside Novac, then uncheck all your mods on a clean copy of an uncorrupted save. Fast travel to Novac and then start activating mods until you start getting crashes and hangups. I know it is a pain in the processor, but this was the only way I was able to stop the crashes and continue on with the game. You will be able to find the conflicting mods in your load order and then can eliminate those and move on. You will probably end up killing off some well loved mods, but in this case there is literally no choice.

 

I restarted the game with no mods active, made a clean save outside of Doc's house, then tried to fast travel to Novac. That way I knew I was going from a game that worked. Did it this way to ensure that corruptions in my old saves were not still causing the crashes.

 

Here is a list of mods that I can prove will crash the game around the Novac area. Still working out exactly why some of them do it, but it is definitive that they do in fact cause CTDs and locked up loads after you get to Novac.

---------------

 

Vurt's WFO version 1.7- [some sort of mesh/texture error. I rolled back to 1.6 and could fast travel and load a save in the Novac area. Have some screens of the trees around Novac which show a mesh problem in the areas on the interstate (near Dinky) and around the beginning of the road to Reppconn.]

 

Increased Wasteland Spawns- [Had over 25 crashes with the plugs and .esm active, none on fast travel since deactivating it. This mod has massive AI/level list conflicts after the 1.3 patch, and even worse on 1.4. The whole area around Novac seems to compound and magnify whatever general AI/level list fault is in conflict with IWS.]

 

Better Loading Screens- [Not sure why, but there is an overall problem with the memory involving the loading commands and routines in the vanilla game]

 

WARZONES - Misanthropy Pure- [Don't know why or even care right now. Too many crashes with this in other areas and cells, not just Novac. Some people can play this mod just fine, but I see a lot that can't for some reason or other. No disrespect to MGE, but I can't use this mod at all.]

 

Simple Streelights- [if it is misplaced in the load order it will cause crashes in Novac and the surrounding cells, especially around Electro City headquarters and Helios One. I had to play with the order for a bit, still not sure if it will cause other crashes or not. I have seen a lot of reports saying it has a general conflict, but they were varied as to the causes.]

 

1aNovacPlayersRoom- [Causes crashes about 75% of the time, and with it unchecked had no more crashes. Was the last thing I deactivated before my game stopped crashing in Novac. This mod also inserts items like Junders Plunkett's finger, Cook Cook's stew, and human remains into various fridges all over the wasteland, so there is a whole lot of general conflicts with the mod. Still an alpha anyway, so my fault for not trying it a few times on a clean save.]

---------

 

Those are the ones I found, but I'm sure there are a few more I don't use that will cause the same type of crashes. The problem seems to be with the male and female Novac citizens that you see the first time you FT into Novac. Those two seem to cause all the level list and AI conflicts. I have screen shots and error logs to prove it, but I am not Obsidian or Bethsoft, so I unable stop it or fix that game engine problem.

 

This was the load order/mod list I was running with the crashing and conflicting mods. I was still working on unchecking and checking when I exported.

 

[X] FalloutNV.esm

[X] IWR.esm

[X] MoraelinsMaces.ESM

[X] More Perks.esm

[X] More Perks for Companions.esm

[X] Caliber.esm

[X] WARZONES - Misanthropy Pure.esm

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm

[X] Project Nevada - Core.esm

[X] Project Nevada - Equipment.esm

[ ] NVR-Strip.esm

[X] IWS-Core.esm

[X] MoMod.esm

[X] IWR - Rebuilt.esp

[X] OperationFixedTerrain.esp

[ ] SimpleStreetLights.esp

[X] VMS44Fixed.esp

[X] Brotherhood and House Alliance.esp

[X] Portable Tent.esp

[X] UHNV.esp

[X] UHNV-More Mannequins.esp

[X] PerkEveryLevel.esp

[X] More Perks Update.esp

[X] More Perks for Companions Update.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX - Gunshot Distance Tweak.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp

[ ] Devil'sMistressReturns.esp

[X] WeaponsOfTheShogunate.esp

[ ] BOAt51b.esp

[ ] Boacombat2glove.esp

[ ] Colossus NV.esp

[X] DragonskinTacticalOutfit.esp

[X] DragonskinBonusPack.esp

[X] Glove_be_gone.esp

[ ] HDTshop.esp

[X] NCR Rearmament v1.5.esp

[X] Neckchains.esp

[ ] sjs_bellydancedress.esp

[ ] jailhouserockette.esp

[X] GBetterHookers.esp

[ ] NVType3 Bone Armor.esp

[X] MoraelinsProfessionalsSuitMod.esp

[ ] NVLadyoutfitXOH.esp

[X] boa ncrpahelmet.esp

[X] manwithnoname.esp

[X] ilbuonorevolver.esp

[X] clintsfistfulrevolver.esp

[ ] Bandshirts_NV.esp

[ ] NWIxiaarmor1.esp

[ ] Nidaoutfitv1.esp

[ ] MoraelinsMacheteReplacer.esp

[ ] AllCompanionsEssential 2.0.esp

[ ] Follower Home Marker.esp

[ ] Bella.esp

[ ] RWKNV.esp

[X] Light Step ED-E.esp

[X] NiceCass.esp

[X] SweetVeronica.esp

[ ] NVWillow.esp

[X] Sex Try.esp

[ ] AWSW.esp

[X] BetterLoadingText.esp

[X] FNVIcons.esp

[X] NewRecipes.esp

[ ] NV Interiors - West Vegas Fringe.esp

[ ] NV Interiors - El Ray Motel.esp

[ ] NV Interiors - Cottonwood Cove.esp

[ ] 1aNovacPlayersRoom.esp

[ ] SecretStash80.esp

[X] Imp's Timescale Adjuster.esp

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - Inventory Sorters Compatibility Patch - RegularCATEYEvalue.esp

[X] Fellout.esp

[X] Interior Lighting Overhaul-Realistic Interiors-Full.esp

[X] Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp

[ ] Ahzteks Pistol and SMG Replacements.esp

[ ] NVFR-Version 1.esp

[ ] NVR-Version_10.esp

[ ] NVR-NPCs.esp

[ ] NVR-ELECTRO-CTIY_Patch.esp

[X] IWS-Core-Patrols.esp

[X] IWS-AS-LowSpawns.esp

[X] MoMod-Aliens.esp

[X] MoMod-Terminators.esp

[X] Vurt's WFO.esp (Version 1.7)

[X] Ahzteks Weapon Overhaul.esp

[X] CaliberX_Ammo_Update_1dot3.esp

[ ] Master Merged.esp

 

This is the load list I am running now. I had to arrange it by hand, BOSS just made it worse when I tried to use it.

 

[X] FalloutNV.esm

[X] IWR.esm

[X] MoraelinsMaces.ESM

[X] More Perks.esm

[X] More Perks for Companions.esm

[X] Caliber.esm

[X] Project Nevada - Core.esm

[X] Project Nevada - Equipment.esm

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm

[X] NVR-Strip.esm

[X] MoMod.esm

[X] Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp

[X] IWR - Rebuilt.esp

[X] OperationFixedTerrain.esp

[X] SimpleStreetLights.esp

[X] VMS44Fixed.esp

[X] Brotherhood and House Alliance.esp

[X] Portable Tent.esp

[X] UHNV.esp

[X] UHNV-More Mannequins.esp

[X] PerkEveryLevel.esp

[X] More Perks Update.esp

[X] More Perks for Companions Update.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX - Gunshot Distance Tweak.esp

[X] Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp

[X] Devil'sMistressReturns.esp

[X] WeaponsOfTheShogunate.esp

[X] BOAt51b.esp

[X] Boacombat2glove.esp

[X] Colossus NV.esp

[X] DragonskinTacticalOutfit.esp

[X] DragonskinBonusPack.esp

[X] Glove_be_gone.esp

[X] HDTshop.esp

[X] NCR Rearmament v1.5.esp

[X] Neckchains.esp

[X] sjs_bellydancedress.esp

[X] jailhouserockette.esp

[X] GBetterHookers.esp

[X] NVType3 Bone Armor.esp

[X] MoraelinsProfessionalsSuitMod.esp

[X] NVLadyoutfitXOH.esp

[X] boa ncrpahelmet.esp

[X] manwithnoname.esp

[X] ilbuonorevolver.esp

[X] clintsfistfulrevolver.esp

[X] Bandshirts_NV.esp

[X] NWIxiaarmor1.esp

[X] Nidaoutfitv1.esp

[X] MoraelinsMacheteReplacer.esp

[X] AllCompanionsEssential 2.0.esp

[X] Follower Home Marker.esp

[X] Bella.esp

[X] RWKNV.esp

[X] Light Step ED-E.esp

[X] NiceCass.esp

[X] SweetVeronica.esp

[X] NVWillow.esp

[X] Sex Try.esp

[X] AWSW.esp

[X] FNVIcons.esp

[X] NewRecipes.esp

[X] NV Interiors - West Vegas Fringe.esp

[X] NV Interiors - El Ray Motel.esp

[X] NV Interiors - Cottonwood Cove.esp

[X] SecretStash80.esp

[X] Imp's Timescale Adjuster.esp

[X] ELECTRO-CITY - Inventory Sorters Compatibility Patch - RegularCATEYEvalue.esp

[X] Fellout.esp

[X] Interior Lighting Overhaul-Realistic Interiors-Full.esp

[X] Ahzteks Pistol and SMG Replacements.esp

[X] NVFR-Version 1.esp

[X] NVR-Version_10.esp

[X] NVR-NPCs.esp

[X] NVR-ELECTRO-CTIY_Patch.esp

[X] Vurt's WFO.esp (Version 1.6)

[X] MoMod-Aliens.esp

[X] MoMod-Terminators.esp

[X] Ahzteks Weapon Overhaul.esp

[X] CaliberX_Ammo_Update_1dot3.esp

[X] Master Merged.esp

 

No crashes in the last 10 times I fast traveled and no crashes the last 10 times I walked in from different spots surrounding Novac like Helios One, Gibson's, Toxic Dump Site, Reppconn, and Ranger Station Charlie. I had a string of corrupted saves and conflicting load lists on two different games on two different computers, so I know this is what works to solve the CTDs.

 

Hope this helps everyone having this problem. I know I have seen an awful lot of complaints and posts all over the net, not just on Nexus and Bethsoft.

Edited July 27, 2011 by DarkHighlord69

[adman85]

First off thanks for the info and giving me the inspiration to get Novac working again. (I would give kudos but it wont let me :wallbash: )

 

Went through all my mods again, basically 1 by 1.. It seems you can add Creature Balance Overhaul to the list of mods causing this crash, for me at least.. I didn't find it earlier, as a home made mod also contributed to the same crash. But I have confirmed this with repeated testing, CBO (at least the version I have) causes CTD at the north of novac, around Gibsons scrapyard.

 

The strange thing is, the first mods I tested for this were the big ones (IWS, Warzones, AWOP, Monster mod) but it seems they run just fine for me around novac.

 

Definitely gonna test this more, but for the moment I can walk around novac with no fear! (except for a weird invisible (permanently stealthboyed) character with no name, no faction, and who i cannot loot on death, who is currently wandering around novac.. But hey who gives a s*** he doesn't make me CTD so he can live.

 

Thanks again Darkhighlord.

 

Somebody give this man a kudos.

 

I'm gonna go through CBO in FNVEdit and find out why its crashing my game right now.

[DarkHighlord69]

That invisible creature is a Nightkin from a spawn point for IWS if I am not mistaken. I had him by the McBrides brahmin pen before, but he seems to have vanished without IWS running. He might pop up after the Reppconn quest, not sure, will have to see in about an hour after it is done.

 

As for giving me kudos, I think I am quite happy with knowing you can play the game again. Finally solving this problem for you and all the others who had it is all I really desired. The fact that I can play through Novac is all I ever wanted out of all the long hours of frustration.

[DarkHighlord69]

A lot of times the CTD issue is fixed by finding a mod or mods that cause a crash. In about 75-80% of the cases I have examined however, the corrupt save game issue comes up later in the game and then you will start having travel/fast travel problems in the Novac area.

 

When in doubt, always try to find a stable and clean save game and start your testing of the mods from what you know to be a working and clean save.

 

I have had the corrupted save game issue in 5 different games I started since the first day of release. It happened with every game after over 100 hours, but it took me months to understand what the root cause of the Novac CTDs was.

 

Here is some test results and conclusions based on the last 3 days of testing and crashing.

 

 

This is what my saves looked like before and after I found the corrupt save file. This was before I made a clean save.

 

Save 504 Courier of Doom Mojave Wasteland 25 34 35.fos 4094kb

Save 505 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 36 07.fos 4092kb

(Before removing all the conflicting mods causing CTDs in Novac on fast travel.)

-----------------

(After deleting the conflicting mods, making a clean save, and restarting the game engine.)

Save 506 FixedNC 25 40 49.fos 3583kb

autosave.fos 3578kb

Save 507 Courier of Doom Novac 25 41 23.fos 3636kb

Save 508 Courier of Doom Novac 25 45 11.fos 3636kb

-------------------

 

This is a corrupted save file! Notice how small the file size difference is?

 

Save 506 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 38 57 4116kb

Save 507 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 45 00.fos 4108kb

 

Only by repeatedly error checking can you even identify that it is corrupt.

The save file size often changes by as much as 200-300kb between clean saves in a consecutive data series;

so it is almost impossible to detect just by looking at the file sizes alone.

 

Both of these saves and the 5 that followed were completely corrupted and showing about 10% overall data corruption and about 200 file errors.

All the actual file errors I could find were directly related to the vanilla NPC's AI packages and level/equipment lists in Novac, and 2-3 cells that were loading around it.

 

(I am using a data/error checking program I wrote and adapted to do the error checking. Because it is proprietary to my work, I can't actually post the error logs and data findings. I am also not sure of the legal ramifications of using it on the proprietary FOS system the game uses. I have a public beta of the program that could be used to test FOS saves for corruptions, but am waiting to hear from Bethesda on whether it would pose any conflicts or legal issues.)

Edited July 27, 2011 by DarkHighlord69