"Winbuntu Gamecube": PC Build Suggestions?

[dplxstudios]

I had purchased a Lenovo Erazer x315 desktop a year ago, and it still works well enough for Skyrim, but some of its components are starting to wear down. I have also worked with Linux on my college campus and have grown to love the OS, especially the level of customization it allows.

 

Since the rig still works adequately enough for me, and I wish to enjoy the perks of both OS’s, I had thought of forgoing an upgrade in favor of saving money over time for a whole new build here.

 

As stated in the linked PCPartpicker build description, I wish to dual-boot both OS’s on this build; Ubuntu 16.04 LTS will be for general and power use, and Windows 7 will be for games (mostly Skyrim) and creating mods.

 

Since I will be trying to stockpile money over time, my budget is $1,000-$1,500, though I am willing to go a little bit over if necessary.

 

Any advice on hardware choices would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[obobski]

Immediate issues:

 

- CPU is going to be a huge bottleneck for basically everything. If you're married to AMD, bump up to an FX-8350 or better, but ideally switch over to an Intel i5 or i7; it'll be faster (especially for games that are heavily single-core dependent, like Skyrim).

- The motherboard is overkill/overpriced/etc for that CPU (ditto on the CPU cooler).

- The stack of SSDs/HDDs makes no sense to me, but perhaps you have a good reason for it. Storage requirements tend to vary from person to person so I assume people are making the right choices for their needs; I'm only saying something because its purpose isn't immediately apparent.

- Holy mother of expensive computer case/fan/etc - the "this is definitely your first build" joke rings true here. I'd personally recommend significantly re-working the enclosure/fan layout, especially on your limited budget (you're putting over $300 into a case and fans here out of a ~$1000 budget - you could have a much faster overall computer if you gave up some of that fluff); I'll also add that expensive cases are (in my experience) often not worth it.

 

Pros:

- RAM is good

- GTX 960 isn't a bad graphics card choice and EVGA is a good maker.

- Arctic makes good heatsinks.

- ASRock makes good motherboards.

 

Questions for you to research/consider:

- Some Rosewill PSUs review very well, some are borderline gutless wonders - how does the one you've selected stack up?

- Why Windows 8.1 and not Windows 7? (you mentioned Windows 7 in your post)

- Do you actually need WiFi? And is the adapter you've selected supported outside of Windows?

- Many motherboards (especially high end models like ASRock Extreme) will include fan control on their own (and just as a side point, you do not need 47^18 fans for a build like this; two or three should be a realistic limit, and if your case is requiring more than that to achieve good cooling (because you're needing lots of spot cooling) the case has badly designed airflow and should be trashed in lieu of something that works better (I'm a strong proponent of conventional ATX spec - if it ain't broke don't fix it)).

- Is there anything you can gut from the Lenovo (and I'm always curious when people say computer parts are "wearing down" - most computer parts don't experience "wear and tear" as you're not dealing with mechanical moving bits (it isn't like a car or a bicycle) - what's specifically wrong, or believed to be wrong, with it?)

[FMod]

AMD FX-8300 offers great value for money ($120 for a CPU that will compete with $200+ i5), but you don't want anything below 8300. That said, its 8 cores aren't all used by Skyrim, so Intel i5 or even i3 is better there.

For FX-8300, +$30.

 

Drop the SSD variety show and get this - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/mushkin-internal-hard-drive-mknssdre1tb

Or two of these - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/mushkin-internal-hard-drive-mknssdec512gb

You can boot both OS from the same SSD. Software RAID is not great for Linux dual-booting; if you want separate SSD, though, it might make sense.

 

For backups, just get a larger HDD - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-hdwd130xzsta or preferably the new X300 (4TB is the minimum for it) - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-hdwe140xzsta

+$25 with 1TB SSD and 3 TB P300.

 

If you're sticking with AMD, get fast DDR3 RAM (2400). It doesn't make much difference, but it's literally just extra $6.

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/mushkin-memory-997123f or http://pcpartpicker.com/part/pny-memory-md16gk2d3240011axr should both do. With Intel you could just get DDR4, which isn't any faster, but a bit more future-proof.

 

Have to disagree about the 960 - yeah, it's OK, but is it's far too expensive for the midrange card it is.

Your budget allows for a 970 http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-gtx970gaming4gle

+$60.

 

Drop all of the case fans and the controller for -$100. You don't need them.

In total it's an extra $20 that will net you a much better PC.

 

Otherwise, follow on the suggestions above. Try and find a cheaper case that you still like, put the savings into an X300 HDD and maybe something else. Intel platform will add a lot of cost, but is worth it if Skyrim matters.

[dplxstudios]

Thanks everyone. I just revised the parts list.

 

I have a few questions, however:

 

• For cases, how would I best optimize cooling? One of the problems with my current store-bought rig is that I think it has less-than-optimal airflow.
• From what I understood, the most efficient way to dual-boot is with separate drives for each OS (hence the SSD "variety show"). Is there a more efficient way?
• Would it be worth it to add a UPS to the list? I live in an area with frequent severe thunderstorms and power surges, and I think these surges might have contributed to the decreased performance of my Lenovo over time.

Speaking of the Lenovo's performance, the specific issues I am having with it are that my 128GB SSD is developing slower read/write times, the aforementioned airflow concern, and the fact that my vanilla Skyrim can only run for about four hours before CTD. Here are the specs:

 

CPU: AMD FX-770K 3.5 GHz Quad Core

RAM: 8.0 GB

GPU: AMD Radeon R9 360

Monitor: Vizio 120 Hz 1080p (100,000:1) HDTV

 

I wish I could find out what motherboard I currently have.

 

At this point, I can still tolerate the SSD and Skyrim playtime issues as my physics studies only allow for an hour an a half of spare time tops; this means I can still use the Lenovo while I save the money for this new build. I just thought it wise to develop a part list now in case the Lenovo takes a turn for the worse.

[FMod]

From what I understood, the most efficient way to dual-boot is with separate drives for each OS (hence the SSD "variety show").

No. It simply reduces the chance of you accidentally screwing your other OS up when installing or messing with the other.

 

the fact that my vanilla Skyrim can only run for about four hours before CTD.

Has nothing to do with your hardware.

 

 

UPS do little to protect your PC, though a little is more than nothing. The few times I got to use mine, I immediately unplugged my PC and basically just used the UPS as a big battery bank (having a car battery to plug in helped with confidence in doing so). Severe power fluctuations that don't let your PC quite turn off might damage it, instant power loss won't.

[dplxstudios]

Ok. I revised the parts list again: link

 

I decided to go with Intel platform for better Skyrim performance and ASRock motherboard due to the high quality and good reputation. I also plan to use two SSDs for a more "accident-proof" dual-boot setup. I originally planned to salvage the 1 TB HDD from the Lenovo, but since I'm going to just upgrade eventually, I might as well save a little more money to buy the 4 TB X300 from the start. Also going with the GTX 970 from EVGA to help with running Skyrim with ENB and mods.

 

I did go slightly over my budget, but that is not a big concern for me; my budget was more flexible than usual and I already have a third of the money saved.

 

While I'm not too concerned with obtaining the hardware for the rig, and Ubuntu 16.04 is easy to acquire, I am a little worried about getting Windows 7. Since I cannot find the full version anywhere, and Amazon is plagued with too many scams, I will have to get the OEM version, which does not allow for reactivation, among other things. Are there any recommendations for safeguarding the system if anything goes wrong (recovery partitions or a backup copy of Windows 7?) Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to "upgrade" to Windows 10.

 

Again, thanks for the help.

[obobski]

On the 960 suggestion/pricing, what I'm looking at is roughly a $100 price difference between the 960 and 970 ($200 vs $300, respectively) - neither is bad, but if your budget can carry a 970 (or Radeon 390) I'd absolutely say "faster is better" and go that route.

 

The SSD "variety show" (ha!) won't do much to save you - basically when dual-booting each OS will be on its own partition and that's that. If you have two hard-drives each representing one partition, or one hard drive with two partitions, or whatever, it doesn't really matter to the bootloader or the "hosted" software. Whatever you're more comfortable with is fine there, but the stacks of disks just didn't make sense to me.

 

On Windows 7, OEM and refurbished keys can be re-activated/re-installed just fine (that myth needs to die) - you just aren't allowed to install them on multiple systems simultaneously (which has never been allowed under Microsoft's EULA; one key per machine). I'd just go with 7x64 OEM/Refurb and be done with it. Go with something that's fulfilled by Amazon and you have their customer service behind it.

 

On airflow - I'm a big proponent of "standard ATX" layout, with a low front intake and high rear exhaust, and ideally a standard-mounted PSU (top mounted) with rear fan. This design has been around for ages and worked successfully for years. Newer cases tend to stray pretty far from that - that isn't always a problem, for example some "inverted" cases are also great, as are some of the cube/desktop designs. The "big gotchas" I'd look out for are:

 

- Front intakes that blow right into a solid wall (e.g. hard-drive cage).

- Cases that primarily use <120mm fans.

- Cases that want the airflow to make crazy turns (e.g. 45*, 90*, etc) to try and provide ventilation.

- Intakes/exhausts that are very obstructed (especially if there's a lot of fairing/fascia/etc over a grilled intake).

 

The Lian-Li PC-7 is an example of a "standard ATX" layout with 120mm fans, and works quite well for many types of builds, but there are other cases out there that are worth looking at, depending on your personal tastes; just make sure it looks to have unrestricted airflow, logical air in/out, and can fit your various components (e.g. you probably want something that can support longer graphics cards).

[FMod]

Now you might've gone a little to the other extreme. The 5820K is good, but do you really need it? If yes, go for it, otherwise the 6600K will be close in most games. Note that these CPU use quad-channel RAM and there generally should be four sticks of it.

 

All in all that's about a $250 premium over a 6600K system, thanks to the latter's cheaper mobos, and $250 spent on a newer videocard, like the upcoming 1070 or Polaris, will be worth more in terms of game performance. OTOH, if you plan on putting money into the system regularly, e.g. replacing that 970 before the warranty expires, the 5820K makes some sense again.

 

 

 

I also plan to use two SSDs for a more "accident-proof" dual-boot setup.

It really just protects you from user errors, like using some quick setup or recovery feature that repartitions the whole drive, or messing with partitions that breaks the other OS's bootability.

 

In practice, you'll run out of space on one of the SSD much sooner than on the other, so will likely start using partitions and spreading the software around anyway. It's still best to use the HDD to backup system partitions instead.

 

Don't stick to the models I've suggested. When actually buying, do a sort by price/GB, then check the reviews on the lowest price/GB item if it's something worth buying. Capacity SSD are a commodity item today, it's the same few controllers being packaged with a few equivalent makes of flash chips by two dozen brands.

[dplxstudios]

Thanks again, everyone. Here is the fourth part list so far.

 

I have finally decided to completely scrap the SSD variety show and dual-boot from the same 1 TB SSD (couldn't find a cheaper drive though; I'm still looking around for one.) I have also recently dug up a box of flash drives I can use as storage, so I'm thinking of gutting the 1 TB HDD from the Lenovo to cut costs. I doubt the OS partition backups will use an obscene amount of that storage, but I'm willing to buy a new HDD if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

Now you might've gone a little to the other extreme. The 5820K is good, but do you really need it?

 

Since I will mainly be playing Skyrim (and occasionally other games like Civ5 and Fallout 4) I assume I will need the 5820K--especially since I will be going with Windows 7 as my gaming OS (More on this later.) I anticipate having to upgrade regularly (i.e. replace graphics cards, RAM, etc.).

 

 

 

On Windows 7, OEM and refurbished keys can be re-activated/re-installed just fine (that myth needs to die) - you just aren't allowed to install them on multiple systems simultaneously (which has never been allowed under Microsoft's EULA; one key per machine). I'd just go with 7x64 OEM/Refurb and be done with it. Go with something that's fulfilled by Amazon and you have their customer service behind it.

 

My initial thoughts exactly. I thought it prudent, however, to make doubly sure which version of Windows 7 was appropriate to use for this build. Thanks for confirming this.

 

I also chose the core parts (CPU, Motherboard, etc.) with Windows 7 in mind as I recall the 6600K CPU is Skylake, which will be assimilated into Windows 10 (My main grievances are the forced automatic updates and the paternalistic overtones of its many "features".) Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

As for case flow, I decided to go with the Corsair SPEC-ALPHA which forgoes an optical drive bay (I can plug one in via USB) in favor of more breathing room. It also has a intake grill that I saw had very little obstruction, though I wish it took up both sides of the front panel.

 

Unless anyone has any suggestions, or the hardware isn't compatible with both OS, I think the only thing left for me to do is to play the waiting game (I have almost all the money I need to cover the budget's maximum threshold now, and am working steadily to saving the rest; If any price drops pop up, so much the better.) If anyone does have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them as always. Thank you all once again.

[obobski]

 

Thanks again, everyone. Here is the fourth part list so far.

 

I have finally decided to completely scrap the SSD variety show and dual-boot from the same 1 TB SSD (couldn't find a cheaper drive though; I'm still looking around for one.) I have also recently dug up a box of flash drives I can use as storage, so I'm thinking of gutting the 1 TB HDD from the Lenovo to cut costs. I doubt the OS partition backups will use an obscene amount of that storage, but I'm willing to buy a new HDD if I'm wrong.

 

I would still dump the 5820k and the X99 platform - simply put nothing in gaming will use it, and its just spending extra money for the sake of spending extra money. But more on that in a minute.

 

On the drives - sounds like a reasonable plan. I don't know what modern Ubuntu does with backups but generally you're right that the backups don't eat a lot of space. Be cautious, however, with Windows' image backups that you *only* include Windows itself in the backup (it will happily image ALL installed programs, documents, etc which CAN take up an obscene amount of space) if you're limited on space. But 2x1TB should be perfectly functional for most users and usage scenarios, and additional drives are always cheap these days if you just need more bulk storage.

 

 

Since I will mainly be playing Skyrim (and occasionally other games like Civ5 and Fallout 4) I assume I will need the 5820K--especially since I will be going with Windows 7 as my gaming OS (More on this later.) I anticipate having to upgrade regularly (i.e. replace graphics cards, RAM, etc.).

 

Skyrim doesn't really benefit from multi-core, and if you go and dig up benchmarks on X99/6-core platforms vs the quad core i5 and i7s there's generally no difference in performance - everything is pretty stagnant these days, and fast single-threaded performance still rules the day. The higher-end i5/i7 on 1150/1151 will be pretty much comparable to what you can get on 2011-3 in terms of single-threaded performance. If you're doing a lot of heavily multi-threaded stuff (e.g. video encoding, 3d modeling, distributed computing, audio editing/encoding, etc) then the 6-core (and beyond) processors can be of more utility.

 

Example:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8426/the-intel-haswell-e-cpu-review-core-i7-5960x-i7-5930k-i7-5820k-tested/6

 

Also - you probably won't be upgrading that often. Again, everything is pretty stagnant, and has been for years, and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon. You also won't need to upgrade to keep playing things the machine already does well, so if its doing Skyrim great today, it will do it great tomorrow too - you won't need to upgrade to keep playing Skyrim. Windows 7 will also not mediate "constant upgrades."

 

 

 

My initial thoughts exactly. I thought it prudent, however, to make doubly sure which version of Windows 7 was appropriate to use for this build. Thanks for confirming this.

 

Any of the x64 variants will do - Professional is probably the best choice since it has network backups and a few other features you may use at some point. But Home Premium is just as capable. I don't get why on earth you're buying a 3-pack though.

 

 

 

I also chose the core parts (CPU, Motherboard, etc.) with Windows 7 in mind as I recall the 6600K CPU is Skylake, which will be assimilated into Windows 10 (My main grievances are the forced automatic updates and the paternalistic overtones of its many "features".) Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You're exactly right, unfortunately. Broadwell and Haswell are the last Intel CPUs that will get to use Windows 7 until the 2020 end of life. There is a "Broadwell-E" coming for 2011-3 later this year, if you're really set on the X99 platform, which will be faster and offer more cores than Haswell-E. You can also get Haswell and Broadwell for 1150 (if you're going for a Broadwell (5675/5775) explicitly check motherboard compatibility as not all 1150 boards support Broadwell; the same will apply for Broadwell-E on 2011-3).

 

 

 

As for case flow, I decided to go with the Corsair SPEC-ALPHA which forgoes an optical drive bay (I can plug one in via USB) in favor of more breathing room. It also has a intake grill that I saw had very little obstruction, though I wish it took up both sides of the front panel.

 

Looks decent, but not as great as I'd like to see - still has fans blowing into a brick wall at the intake, bottom-mounted PSU, and as you've noted the front intake is partially a brickwall too. Doesn't mean it won't work, of course.

 

Overall not a bad revision, but I'd trim some more bodyfat and switch over to a Z97, 4790k or 5775c or similar, drop down to less expensive RAM, and re-think the case a bit more - you can probably save a few hundred more dollars this way, and will still have excellent performance.

 

Some quick edits:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kvzp9W

 

You can dump the Fury X ofc - snagged it because it fit into that same ~$1400 budget and honestly why not. But the 390 is a perfectly competent card in its own right, and a lot less money.