OMG this is so frustrating

[PracticalShutIn]

I've spent all of the last 2 days plus some of the previous day learning, researching, downloading patches. Today I'm installing them on a new game and was hoping to finally play it.

 

So I read some technical uncomprehendable guides about Wyre Bash and try to set everything up so that I can test my first few mods. Now it's telling me I need to rebuild the bashed patch (absolutely no explanation of what it means, why it needs to be done). So I try it and this list pops up with 20 check boxes no one should understand or intuit, together with a bunch of buttons that are equally unknowable. What on earth is this about? And how is it possible for every person who used a mod in Oblivion got past this point with no instruction?

 

And I read that the next step is cleaning mods. Why weren't they cleaned before? Wouldn't that make more sense rather than several thousand people downloading some cleaning tool to each clean their patches whatever on earth that means. Has anyone gotten to actually play the game before dying of old age or running out of personal time to dedicate to this rigorously onerous process?

 

I feel absolutely worn out and at wit's end. If anyone can see past the rant and grant me some of the unknowable instruction needed to get through this, I would be grateful. Otherwise, I'll be under my desk weeping.

[rinoaff33]

I've spent all of the last 2 days plus some of the previous day learning, researching, downloading patches. Today I'm installing them on a new game and was hoping to finally play it.

 

So I read some technical uncomprehendable guides about Wyre Bash and try to set everything up so that I can test my first few mods. Now it's telling me I need to rebuild the bashed patch (absolutely no explanation of what it means, why it needs to be done). So I try it and this list pops up with 20 check boxes no one should understand or intuit, together with a bunch of buttons that are equally unknowable. What on earth is this about? And how is it possible for every person who used a mod in Oblivion got past this point with no instruction?

 

And I read that the next step is cleaning mods. Why weren't they cleaned before? Wouldn't that make more sense rather than several thousand people downloading some cleaning tool to each clean their patches whatever on earth that means. Has anyone gotten to actually play the game before dying of old age or running out of personal time to dedicate to this rigorously onerous process?

 

I feel absolutely worn out and at wit's end. If anyone can see past the rant and grant me some of the unknowable instruction needed to get through this, I would be grateful. Otherwise, I'll be under my desk weeping.

 

Yes, modding Oblivion is a pain. I end up spending the same amount of time modding Oblivion as I do playing it - more, perhaps. Oblivion is a complex - albeit rushed, buggy, and poorly optimized without patches and mods - but versatile game. No, not every mod or tool is perfect or has great instructions. "Cleaning" mods isn't 100% necessary. If Wrye Bash is too complex, stick to the Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM) unless a specific mod explicitly requires Wyre Bash.

 

Most of the checkboxes for Wyre Bash are just for either tweaking small settings or combining ESP files. Basically, the Bashed Patch is there to reduce the number of ESPs you have to use, which speeds up the game and prevents you from hitting the 255 ESP cap. It has some fancier features, but the only mods I can think of that really use them are COBL and All Natural.

 

Here's a great guide for getting started with Wrye Bash: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230

 

Also, trying using Better Oblivion Sorting Software (BOSS).

 

What mods in particular are you installing that are causing frustration?

Edited August 4, 2011 by rinoaff33

[PracticalShutIn]

 

Most of the checkboxes for Wyre Bash are just for either tweaking small settings or combining ESP files. Basically, the Bashed Patch is there to reduce the number of ESPs you have to use, which speeds up the game and prevents you from hitting the 255 ESP cap. It has some fancier features, but the only mods I can think of that really use them are COBL and All Natural.

 

Here's a great guide for getting started with Wrye Bash: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230

 

Also, trying using Better Oblivion Sorting Software (BOSS).

 

What mods in particular are you installing that are causing frustration?

 

Thanks for that guide. Of the 4+ I've been reading, they are all instructing to use features that aren't there anymore and have steps that are now automated. It was very slow moving and the dry text blurs together. A visual guide is much better.

 

I finished the bashed patch section, although it now has errors in Mod Checker which look like random text to me. " cannot import name myole4ax", and the part about a mod icon changing to a dot didn't tell me if that's a good thing. I pretty much checked every box that was "Recommended" and "User Choice" except for some of the tweaks.

 

Also, I don't have a saved game yet, and the end of that guide says to apply everything to a saved game. What do I do in that case?

 

I have Boss installed already, and it doesn't seem like there are any conflicts or problems with the Load Order. The dirty mods are mostly the DLCs, saying "Contains dirty edits: 11 ITM, 2 UDR records. Needs TES4Edit cleaning:". There are a few in Harvest [Flora], and Bash Tag recommendations in almost everything.

 

I haven't installed much on top of the official and unofficial mods yet.

[MShoap13]

 

Most of the checkboxes for Wyre Bash are just for either tweaking small settings or combining ESP files. Basically, the Bashed Patch is there to reduce the number of ESPs you have to use, which speeds up the game and prevents you from hitting the 255 ESP cap. It has some fancier features, but the only mods I can think of that really use them are COBL and All Natural.

 

Here's a great guide for getting started with Wrye Bash: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230

 

Also, trying using Better Oblivion Sorting Software (BOSS).

 

What mods in particular are you installing that are causing frustration?

 

Thanks for that guide. Of the 4+ I've been reading, they are all instructing to use features that aren't there anymore and have steps that are now automated. It was very slow moving and the dry text blurs together. A visual guide is much better.

 

I finished the bashed patch section, although it now has errors in Mod Checker which look like random text to me. " cannot import name myole4ax", and the part about a mod icon changing to a dot didn't tell me if that's a good thing. I pretty much checked every box that was "Recommended" and "User Choice" except for some of the tweaks.

 

Also, I don't have a saved game yet, and the end of that guide says to apply everything to a saved game. What do I do in that case?

 

I have Boss installed already, and it doesn't seem like there are any conflicts or problems with the Load Order. The dirty mods are mostly the DLCs, saying "Contains dirty edits: 11 ITM, 2 UDR records. Needs TES4Edit cleaning:". There are a few in Harvest [Flora], and Bash Tag recommendations in almost everything.

 

I haven't installed much on top of the official and unofficial mods yet.

 

Once you get what you have working properly make sure you go in game and run around for a while just to test things out. I know there's a relatively steep learning curve but, If you think getting started is a PITA wait til you run into your first issues without having tested mods in batches...

 

As far as Wrye Bash goes I got no clue as I've only used it for All Natural, it's really not necessary until you get into making other mods work with some of the major overhauls (OOO, MMM, FCOM, etc.)

 

Edit: Also, BOSS assumes that you are cleaning the mods it suggests to clean as it builds your load order. Not cleaning them could result in mods not working properly and cleaning isn't very difficult at all just make sure to back up the original plugins. User made mods really should be cleaned but they aren't always. And Bethesda not cleaning the DLC is exactly the type of quality I'd expect from them. They make great innovative games, but don't bother to debug them to any reasonable level.

Edited August 4, 2011 by MShoap13

[DrakeTheDragon]

Never underestimate the value of the bashed patch. Whenever the number of mods in your list exceeds "1" the bashed patch could already be inevitable to make them work together without conflicting.

Oblivion's own plugin merging is... limited at best. Without the bashed patch doing this for it first hand things can go horribly wrong in the end. It is definitely "not" just for when using big overhauls or such!

 

Did you know in Oblivion's plugin merging there's no gender distinction even? A plugin altering the "male" settings of race A and another plugin altering the "female" settings of race A active at the same time only the last one in load order will survive and undo all changes of the first one. Using Robert's Male Body (a male body replacer affecting male texture settings for several Vanilla races, obviously) and Team Fantasy Figures (likewise, but a female body replacer this time) together without a compatibility plugin merging their settings, or said bashed patch, is straight away impossible to ever work out in Oblivion.

 

While you could do fine with merging all necessary settings into a single plugin by hand yourself every time, how likely is it you're actually going to attempt this, without even knowing what are the necessary settings to begin with? That's where bash tags and the bashed patch come in. They do this for you automagically and only need a few pointers from you as to what features you want and what not. For example you can have bash tags on Robert's Male and TFF plugins telling one contains only male, the other only female race settings (that's the way they're initially tagged or done so by BOSS), but still you have to check the mark for merging the race settings of the two into the bashed patch to begin with. It could be you don't want the race settings form one of them to be merged as you're using a third plugin for additonal beautification or whatever which is already doing this for you. Then you won't check the two in the race settings merge dialog but only the additional one. Still letting them merge in this case could actually lead to yet worse results in the end than not merging them at all. That's why WB's "asking" when compiling the bashed patch. It can't "know" your intentions without you telling it.

 

And you have to rebuilt your bashed patch every time you change something in your load list, because it's including almost every plugin you have and when you remove one from your list its effects will still reside inside the bashed patch, making it as if you never removed it to begin with. It's no rocket science, just far more possibilities and options than you might initially want of it. Once you got a hang of it (usually after adding/removing some plugins and recompiling the bashed patch a couple times and seeing what it does, and also seeing what happens if you fail to do so, which is going to happen one time or another anyways) you will definitely love it, and ask yourself why you didn't use it earlier.

 

It might have a steep learning curve and require a lot of reading up and familiarizing with, but not without cause it's called the "swiss knife" tool for Oblivion modding. There are just countless things which are straight away "impossible" without it. ("impossible" here meaning you "could" do it manually, but it would drive you crazy just trying to.)

[PracticalShutIn]

Thanks for the responses, kudos to all.

 

I tried loading the game with my bashed patch last night. Crash. Come on! I hadn't even installed much yet! Aside from the official stuff and utilities, the only mods I'm using are Bain Streamline, Harvest Flora, Oblivion Script Optimization, QTP3R, Pyffi Optimized QTP3, The Lost Spires. I disabled the bashed patch and I was able to get to the Create A New Character screen (where it had crashed before). I then rebuilt the bashed patch with only the bottom 2 checked and everything worked fine. So I guess I've got to build the patch checking different boxes until I find which is causing the crash. (you're right this could be a nightmare) Edit: it was Actor Tweaks in the bashed patch (the ones requiring certain mods). I couldn't see the full description when I checked them, and when I maximized the window it was obvious.

 

I can't tell which patches get included in the bashed patch. Is there a way to tell? And what happens when you don't use a bashed patch?

 

So I have that to work on, as well as:

2) install python to fix the error from modchecker? it was Wrye Bash, he uploaded a new installer for 294 to fix this

3) Crashes when closing the game (ThievesDen Patch is cause)

4) Fix the stuttering in streamline/OSR

5) Install that mod cleaner and do some washing

 

Then I can torture myself with FCOM, OOO, MMM, FFF LLL DDD AAA AAAAAHHH and all of the others.

 

Edit: What do you do when you have a mod that needs cleaning, and another mod that is related needs cleaning too? I have DLCFrostcrag with dirty edits, Harvest Flora is fine, but Harvest Flora - DLCFrostCrag.esp has dirty edits too.

Edited August 5, 2011 by PracticalShutIn

[PracticalShutIn]

I realized that the recent edits don't save this topic from being buried. I'm still wondering about what is included in a bashed patch and what to do with the 2 related mods that need cleaning. :psyduck:

[MShoap13]

Open Oblivion.esm Frostcrag.esp and Harvest Flora - Frostcrag.esp in TES4Edit. Proceed to clean them both. Edited August 5, 2011 by MShoap13

[PracticalShutIn]

Open Oblivion.esm Frostcrag.esp and Harvest Flora - Frostcrag.esp in TES4Edit. Proceed to clean them both.

 

Thanks. Scrubbed.