Creating a new game rather than adding to Oblivion

[Vagrant0]

Septim, I know your optimistic, but this is the epitome of impossibility.

Optional real time (fighting continues even though a menu has been opened), or turn baste combat (fighting pauses as commands are given, and continues when the player is finished).

- Four active character team, with room for additional two guest characters (non-player controlled).

 

o Dagger (duel wield with 1 handed ax, or 1 handed sword)

o Ninja Swords (duel wield only with another ninja sword)

o Spears (2 handed)

All of these things cannot be done, at all with the Oblivion engine. As Vagrant said, 200 skilled modders couldn't do this.

Actually, spears can with OBSE, but it still looks wierd and isn't a stand alone skill.

 

Even without those things, you have countless other aspects which just simply should not be attempted.

 

- Large world spanning quest, interesting and entertaining side quests. Journey from large luxurious cities, to poor villages, battlefields, over the seas and sky.

- Cell based game. Uses dungeon size environments rather than one large exterior environment. Improves performance as well as allowing for more NPC’s in one area, and more impressive lighting and magical effects. Just look at the way Oblivion plays inside a city or dungeon versus in the exterior environment.

The first conflicts with the second. Also battles over sky and sea don't really work too well what with limited ship capabilities and no flying capabilities (tcl doesn't count since you want people to fight). The remaining parts of the first point are just time, time, more time, (and add another 2-5 years (even with 6-10 meshers working exclusivly on one type) per city type if you don't use stock statics).

 

The second point is just plain wrong. Interiors don't allow for larger spaces (actually the opposite since anything built outside an area 40960x40960 tends to get screwy, worlds are meant for worlds, interiors are meant for interiors, you cannot do one with the other) they just allow for space without ground. There is no performance gain really, it just seems that way because you have fewer NPCs and statics around you. 20 NPCs in an interior cell cause just as much slow down as 20 NPCs in an exterior cell. No matter what, you still don't want more than 8-12 NPCs being loaded and doing anything at any time. Lighting in interior cells is actually worse. It's static. Magic effects are unchanged by interiors or exteriors (unless the player has mods with exterior only spells). Again, most of the dungeons have 4-5 NPCs in them, fewer statics, and more replicated pieces. All of this leads to better performance, not anything intrinsic to interior spaces. Interior spaces also lack ground, which can make doing anything like a fake exterior rather difficult. Interior spaces also don't allow for any LODs, so once you move out of range, things vanish.

 

- Character Response. Optional responses that a character can select in a conversation based on their Charisma level. Similar to that in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

- Multiple story endings. For a non-linear and more cinematic experience.

 

While both of these are possible to minor extents, even planning to add anything like this when you don't even have one clear route finished is just plain suicide for any mod. Dialogues take alot of time to setup. The more complicated the dialogue, the harder it is to setup. The more complicated the quest, the harder it is to setup. Quests with multiple outcomes just don't work too well because of this. When you're looking at years of work to do any of the other parts, trying to do this as well would quite likely be what kills your mod. It isn't just doing it once and letting it sit, it's making changes, playtesting every angle, making more changes, playtesting every angle again, and again. Even if you have a reliable system for determining actions, you would still need to re-apply that system to every dialogue, and test to make sure it works. As cool as it might be, the reality is that trying to do this sort of thing just isn't practical from a time standpoint. Before you can even attempt to make quests like this, you would need to have your NPCs and everything else done... And at that, you've already spent so much time that even the most patient of help will be wondering what the deal is, and if the mod will ever be done.

 

On average, figure that for every additional quest branch, add another week or two depending on length of quest. For every additional ending, add another year (unless it's just a cop-out ending (picking door number 2 instead of door number 1).

 

- Customizable classes (yes) and apparel (maybe)

- Acquire new and stronger weapons and abilities. Through experience, completing missions, buying, selling, stealing, trading, creating, or just finding them.

Oblivion doesn't allow for alteration of items. Everything which exists (outside things manually enchanted by the player) exist in all their states individually. Customizable weapons or equipment requires all the possible customizations to already be defined and implemented. Anything tradeskill requires all the components, and all the possible combinations of those components to be defined. It also usually needs a hell of alot of scripting to allow for combining or aquiring those items. This in itself is a mod. Trying to do it within a TC where you're trying to have entirely new models, and so much else is just plain unrealistic.

 

- Easy to maneuver and understandable menus and interface.

Can't be done at all.

 

It should also be mentioned that any custom creatures or animations just won't happen since there isn't anyone around who can do that sort of thing who doesn't charge money, or doesn't carefully considder the success of the project before even mentioning that they can. There are only a few in the entire international community who can do this sort of thing, and they have more than enough work to last till the end of time.

 

Your goal at this point shouldn't be trying to find anyone you can get. Those people who answer probably won't be of much use. Instead you should take a step back and ask yourself honestly if this project can even be done. If you answer "yes", try again. Even stripping it down to it's more mundane elements;

 

A player and companion travel through a fairly small world which was made with existing resources toward a single solution.

 

and nothing else, is a huge undertaking for even 10-20 semi-capable people. No matter who you have on your team, you will always need someone who knows how everything works to coordinate things. Make a town with a few quests on your own... You'll see just how time consuming that one aspect is.

[Septim741]

I admit that most of what has been said above is indeed correct. A lot of these things are quite impossible. But if we could find a few dedicated team members, this TC could be very possible, discarding the aformentioned obstacles.

 

And your forum is all set up for you.

[TheTerminator2004]

So THAT's what that new forum over at HS is for... now I understand.

 

The thing is, even if you were to get rid of all the impossible bits and just do, as Vagrant0 put it:

 

A player and companion travel through a fairly small world which was made with existing resources toward a single solution.

 

you'd still need a large, skilled team, and, more importantly, a very skilled team leader. As you clearly don't know the first thing about modding, you're not going to come under either of those things, you'll just be sitting around while others do everything. Which kind of defeats the point of starting the mod, really.

[Septim741]

You may be starting out to big. I agree. Perhaps you should start with just the companion, or just the new, smaller worldspace, and then add on to that. It's what I would do! ;)

[Vagrant0]

A player and companion travel through a fairly small world which was made with existing resources toward a single solution.

 

you'd still need a large, skilled team, and, more importantly, a very skilled team leader. As you clearly don't know the first thing about modding, you're not going to come under either of those things, you'll just be sitting around while others do everything. Which kind of defeats the point of starting the mod, really.

I mentioned this, or atleast suggested that even with a team of 20 capable people it would still be tough. I personally have been kicking around the idea of a small linear TC for some time now, but despite all I know, I still wouldn't make any plans to even start on it due to all the time and complications I would run into before I could even complete enough to get anyone else involved. It's one thing to dedicate a year or two of your own time toward a mod, it's another to ask the same of someone else, where they will likely be sitting on their hands half the time waiting for work.

 

As far as story goes, the fewer branches you have, the stronger the story is overall. The more branches you have, the harder it is for any story to really take shape. You also have to be wlling to restrict the player at points so that one aspect of the story can't be sidelined for months at a time. The place where Oblivion failed is because the main story has little relevence or effect on anything else. And if they tried to incorporate as much of the main quest into all the little side quests as they could, the game would still be in production, with no end in sight. It's a fine story, but it just doesn't work within a free roam system. Morrowind's story works because it's centered around you, not some event.

[shamis]

So if I change the left hand to actually rip the short sword, as well as tweak the the angle, he can wield two swords. Again, since it well be a total conversion, I can create a new weapons class and animation package, to incorporate duel wielding, just as you can equip a torch or a shield.

 

- Shamis -

[Vagrant0]

So if I change the left hand to actually rip the short sword, as well as tweak the the angle, he can wield two swords. Again, since it well be a total conversion, I can create a new weapons class and animation package, to incorporate duel wielding, just as you can equip a torch or a shield.

 

- Shamis -

Yeah, you could probably just link a new animation... But you cannot make a new weapon class. To link the dual wield animation to anything you would have to replace either all 1 hand animations, or all 2 hand animations. Animations do not differ between blade or blunt, they both use the same standard attack animations. You cannot change this. You also would only get any sort of effect from the weapon in the right hand since there is only one weapon node, and it only uses information from the right hand. Nevermind having to find someone who can do animations. Even if you did considder it something worth doing, you would still be stuck with a shield that looks like a sword. Anything equiped to the shield slot will ALWAYS behave like a shield.

 

As far as the mod goes, dual weapons is really the least of a long list of serious problems. There are also a few mods which have already done it about as good as it will ever be done. Why reinvent the wheel?

 

It seems like people are misunderstanding the term "total conversion". A total conversion is not a new game. It doesn't allow you to change anything and everything to suit your needs. A total conversion is essentially limited to just changing the setting for the game. While you can make changes to minor things like classes, races, and game settings, you can't change anything hard coded. Hard coded things are things like skills, spell effects, weapon types, equipment slots, menu functions. Essentially, if there isn't a mod which is capable of doing it alone, it can't be done within a TC. You can't do more within a TC, you can just do it differently, and without concern for the existing world.

 

If you're determined to make this as you described, your best bet is to learn how to do coding, buy yourself an engine and learn the hard way about what goes into making a game from scratch. This mod cannot be done within Oblivion. This mod probably couldn't even be done within NWN2's engine. To get wat you want, you would have to make a new game from scratch.

[Stokes52]

Sorry for the negativity, but I really don't understand how there are people in the world who expect be successful with ideas that have NOTHING to back them up! I can understand if you're saying "Hey this is a cool idea, probably won't happen, but its fun to think about!", but saying "I intend to make this mod (or as you put it, a whole new GAME) without a team or any actual technical planning to a year old game"

 

You are proposing something which is:

1) literally impossible to attain to 100% completion with Oblivion's engine

2) will take years and years to even come close to completing, even with a skilled team

3) no plans, tasks, or leadership for anyone interested to look at. Basically no planning

4) no team members or anyone skilled at modding.

5) limited personal knowledge of modding and how Oblivion's engine works

6) is possibly illegal, due to the fact you intend to create "a new game", not just modifying the original game

7) you've given no feedback in this post as to how you intend to address any problems many big mods encounter, or how to even do some of the things you propose, except for one post saying how you intend to somewhat recreate "dual wielding", which has already been done and doesn't even work 100% right anyway

8) many of the things you propose have already been done, yet you want to waste time by doing them over. Personally I think you'll get farther by taking existing mods and combining them

9) if your ideas haven't already been done, then they will either take hundreds of hours to complete or they are downright impossible

10) your recruiting method is downright horrible. You basically mentioned as an afterthought that "oh yeah", I want people to help me

 

 

I really don't know HOW you intend to do ANYTHING on this mod. The only explanation I can think of is you're expecting to get a bunch of people excited, they'll sign up, do all the work, and then you'll have another mod you can play with. Honestly if you're going to start a project, and be the project's LEADER, you should at least have a passing knowledge of every single aspect of your mod, even if you aren't good at it or particularly understand it.

 

You should at least know what it takes to mod, code, model, retexture, build objects, make worldspaces, and any other task you intend to do. Even if you don't know how to do it you should at least have SOME knowledge of whats going on. It seems to me like you know little to nothing about modding and yet you want to create an ambitious modding project without any actual real world knowledge of how its done. If I'm going to start a mod, and I need modelers, texturers, world builders, etc, then I'd want to at least know what they are going to do. Making a list of actual things that need to be done and actual positions you need filled help as well and show people you are serious. For example "I need 10 swords modeled and textured, here's a picture for inspiration, 5 are one handed, 5 are two handed, it should look like this, and I'll need modelers to make this (insert picture) into a real in-game object. Then I'll need people who can texture these items".

 

I haven't modded Oblivion, but in other games, even the simple task of retexturing something can take upwards of an hour, and thats not even modeling, custom animations, or even building anything in the worldspace, thats just CHANGING THE COLOR of an existing object!!

 

 

I have to ask, how old are you? Sorry, but I really think your some kid whose been messing around with Oblivion modding, had a great idea one day, and assumed by posting on the forums it would automatically turn into this big wonderful mod that everyone would love.

 

 

Sorry, but with all the time you spent writing up your mod ideas, I really can't get my head around the fact that you are serious and actually intend for this thing to work. I really really can't understand it and I have no idea what you must be thinking. You have some really excellent ideas, and I give you my full support for trying, but in all honesty I can't understand what it would take to fool oneself into believing something like this is possible in a MOD to edit an existing game. Once again, sorry for the negativity, I'm just really baffled and confused right now.