Curious as to a (most likely) mod problem

[HyppieSabotage]

Hey all,

 

The problem I've encountered is actually a pretty big annoyance, and its pretty much undoubtedly caused by my load order (which no doubt is very very sloppy) and the problem is this:

 

Every time I go from some Interior Cell to an Exterior, chances are 18 times out of 20 that the loading screen will freeze (roulette table stops spinning, hints/tips stop changing, etc).

 

From Interior to Exterior meaning anywhere from;

 

Mick & Ralphs -> Freeside

Freeside -> Wasteland

McCarran -> Wasteland

Gomorrah -> Strip

Freeside -> Strip

Strip -> Freeside

Strip -> Strip

 

You get the idea.

 

So basically I was just looking for a confirmation as to whether or not its the messy load order/mod conflicts. It may even be running out of memory, but my rig can run the game extremely well with almost rare dips from 55+fps.

 

(Can post load order if needed.)

[dubiousintent]

First, are you using "LOOT" to sort your mod "load order" (LO)? (Reduces mod conflicts.)

 

Issue: CTD on interior/exterior/"fast travel" cell change.
Cause1: Most importantly, completely disable all manner of autosaves in the game options. Most crashes on cell-change are caused by the autosave feature choking because it's trying to write data into a save it corrupted the last time you changed cells. Auto-saves are dangerous because they are seldom able to tell when the game is in the middle of doing something else critical. [CASM] and [CASM with MCM] attempt to provide more control over such situations. They are better than the built-in mechanism, but don't rely upon any auto-save exclusively. Manual "full saves" after waiting about five seconds with nothing happening are still safest.
Cause2: Crashes on cell transition will happen more often the more mods you have that affect NPC's & levelled lists. You can't run different mods like that, reliably, without a "bashed" or "merged" patch.

Otherwise I suggest you look over the troubleshooting guide posted here. It has links to an extensive series of helpful tools.

 

-Dubious-

Edited May 30, 2016 by dubiousintent

[HyppieSabotage]

First, are you using "LOOT" to sort your mod "load order" (LO)? (Reduces mod conflicts.)

 

Issue: CTD on interior/exterior/"fast travel" cell change.

Cause1: Most importantly, completely disable all manner of autosaves in the game options. Most crashes on cell-change are caused by the autosave feature choking because it's trying to write data into a save it corrupted the last time you changed cells. Auto-saves are dangerous because they are seldom able to tell when the game is in the middle of doing something else critical. [CASM] and [CASM with MCM] attempt to provide more control over such situations. They are better than the built-in mechanism, but don't rely upon any auto-save exclusively. Manual "full saves" after waiting about five seconds with nothing happening are still safest.

Cause2: Crashes on cell transition will happen more often the more mods you have that affect NPC's & levelled lists. You can't run different mods like that, reliably, without a "bashed" or "merged" patch.

 

Otherwise I suggest you look over the troubleshooting guide posted here. It has links to an extensive series of helpful tools.

 

-Dubious-

Alright I'll try disabling the autosaving, and using LOOT is partially the reason my load order is a mess, having had it arrange my load order assuming it would get the job done clean and fast.

 

It didn't.

[dubiousintent]

Why do you think LOOT messed up your LO? While not 100% perfect, it works by reading the file headers to determine the types of records the plugin modifies and arranges them in a hierarchy order. That is pretty hard to mess up unless an unknown record type is involved. Within record types you can move individual plugins up or down as needed. I do this all the time when creating "merged plugin" files. I always re-run LOOT after rearranging to see if it insists on moving something elsewhere, and don't argue with it unless I have specific knowledge why my judgement is better (which is so seldom I can't remember when BTW). So far, I have over 220 hours with over 200 mods and no stability problems (other than occasionally when I add a new mod until I work out it's quirks) in 4 hour sessions FROM DAY 1. I call that pretty successful. LOOT works. But it's only a part of the tool kit you need.

 

I posted some "troubleshooting" guidelines [here] that may be of some help.

 

-Dubious-

Edited May 30, 2016 by dubiousintent

[HyppieSabotage]

Why do you think LOOT messed up your LO? While not 100% perfect, it works by reading the file headers to determine the types of records the plugin modifies and arranges them in a hierarchy order. That is pretty hard to mess up unless an unknown record type is involved. Within record types you can move individual plugins up or down as needed. I do this all the time when creating "merged plugin" files. I always re-run LOOT after rearranging to see if it insists on moving something elsewhere, and don't argue with it unless I have specific knowledge why my judgement is better (which is so seldom I can't remember when BTW). So far, I have over 220 hours with over 200 mods and no stability problems (other than occasionally when I add a new mod until I work out it's quirks) in 4 hour sessions FROM DAY 1. I call that pretty successful. LOOT works. But it's only a part of the tool kit you need.

 

I posted some "troubleshooting" guidelines [here] that may be of some help.

 

-Dubious-

 

Does it really? Sometimes I'd have one load order, game would run fine, as much as a sloppily pasted together load order would, and then I'd have loot rearrange it and it wouldn't work after. So there I'm assuming that its just something regarding the fact some mods require the esp.s to come before/after a specific one and everything just got out of whack. Which is why the load order I have now (although arranged by LOOT) seems to work fine with the game except with problem I'm having, and I refuse to add any more mods no matter how desperate I get to. (The disabling auto-save idea did not work either.)

 

I forgot to mention, This problem could technically be bypassed by fast-traveling somewhere, but unfortunately

 

1. I'm a huge immersion-nut and refuse to fast travel anywhere unless I absolutely have to, and

2. There's also not a 100% chance that the loading screen here wouldn't freeze up.

[dubiousintent]

Please bear with me if I seem to be repeating things stated previously. It is not clear to me that you picked up on the significance of some points in passing.

 

1) LOOT is not 100% accurate. No tool is. It can't process information that is not present in the plugin. That happens for a variety of reasons. Usually that additional information is contained in the mod's documentation. The author goes to the trouble of mentioning things like requirements and "load order" (LO) because YOU have to implement those aspects. Statements like "as much as a sloppily pasted together load order would" do not inspire a confidence that you have paid attention to such reading. Successfully modding a game takes time and effort with attention to details.

 

2) Some mods that require their ESPs to come after a specific one are due to "mod conflicts" so theirs will win, or "dependencies" upon the other mod which must come first (called a "master") so the game can use the earlier loading mod's assets. Failure to get these in the correct order is a primary reason for problems. Again, it is essential to heed the author's warnings/advice is this regard. Some mods are "patches", which may not include the information about a needed "master" within the plugin itself. So LOOT needs your assistance to correct the situation. You can use the "metadata" capability of LOOT to preserve that information as to which mod a particular mod needs to load after, so you only need to make the adjustment once. It is covered in the LOOT documentation. No one expects you to know all the answers, so don't be shy about asking here. But you do need to provide details, such as your LO.

 

3) LOOT will only change your LO when it finds a reason to do so. Typically this is due to the addition or removal of another mod. So, when the LO changes, something about it changed. It is not arbitrary: there is a reason behind it even if you don't recognize it.

 

4) The point about the "auto-save" is that disabling it after things have gotten corrupted will not help with the corrupted file. The damage has already been done. You have to go back to a save point before the corruption. That would preferably be a "full save" that you manually initiated. The best time to disable auto-saves is prior to starting a new game.

 

You shouldn't have to fast travel anywhere. It's always useful to post your LO (in "Spoiler" tags. Use the "Special BBCode" button in the "Reply" menu bar). "LOOT" can copy your LO into a file suitable for posting here. (It's under the ":" with three dots to the extreme right in it's menu bar.) We might see something obviously wrong, or that is missing (such as a "merged/bashed" patch file) or too many mods.

-Dubious-

Edited June 7, 2016 by dubiousintent

[HyppieSabotage]

Haha no worries, in all honesty it should be me asking you to bear with me, and I should thank you for doing so too, as you're the only person willing to help with this for as long as you have. Because I am by no means anywhere close to being maybe an amateur modder at best; as my load order is basically the equivalent of seeing something I like and copying it. (In this case; Gopher's load order) and when I said "sloppily pasted together load order" I was only blaming myself, as you couldn't be more right in assuming I may or may not have pad so much attention to what I needed to. Gopher's videos help, but the ratio of confusion to understanding while watching them is practically just not in my favor. So I understand dealing with me is probably as frustrating as dealing with a 4 year old toddler, but I basically possess enough knowledge about modding to know that I am probably going to break my game when I get overzealous with the mods.

 

However, the point about starting from a full save/new game was something I didn't think about at first (shameful, I know) and kind of sounds like a promising idea, despite how far I am in my save already.

 

But anyways, I do thank you and appreciate your patience and understanding.

 

(Load order)

 

 

0 0 FalloutNV.esm
1 1 HonestHearts.esm
2 2 OldWorldBlues.esm
3 3 LonesomeRoad.esm
4 4 DeadMoney.esm
5 5 GunRunnersArsenal.esm
6 6 ClassicPack.esm
7 7 MercenaryPack.esm
8 8 TribalPack.esm
9 9 CaravanPack.esm
10 a YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm
11 b New Vegas Redesigned II.esm
NVEC Complete + NVCE.esm
12 c Interior Lighting Overhaul - Core.esm
13 d ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm
14 e NVInteriors_Core.esm
15 f NVInteriors_ComboEdition_AWOP.esm
16 10 AWorldOfPain(Preview).esm
17 11 CCO - Gameplay Changes.esm
18 12 The New Bison Steve Hotel.esm
19 13 CCO - Follower Tweaks.esm
20 14 More Perks.esm
21 15 More Perks for Dead Money.esm
22 16 ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm
23 17 More Perks for Honest Hearts.esm
24 18 CCO - Classic Perks.esm
25 19 Project Nevada - Core.esm
26 1a Project Nevada - Equipment.esm
27 1b Project Nevada - Rebalance.esp
28 1c Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp
29 1d Sortomatic.esm
30 1e More Perks for Old World Blues.esm
31 1f SomeguySeries.esm
32 20 Project Nevada - Extra Options.esm
33 21 Interior Lighting Overhaul - L38PS.esm
34 22 Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.esm
35 23 Sortomatic-AWOP.esm
36 24 oHUD.esm
37 25 Afterschool Special.esm
38 26 YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp
39 27 Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp
40 28 Interior Lighting Overhaul - Ultimate Edition.esp
41 29 Project Nevada - All DLC.esp
Project Nevada - Lonesome Road.esp
42 2a ADAM - LR.esp
43 2b ADAM - HH.esp
44 2c EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp
45 2d ILO - NVInteriors Project - AWOP.esp
46 2e outsidebets.esp
47 2f More Perks Update.esp
48 30 WeaponModsExpanded.esp
49 31 TheInheritance.esp
50 32 NewVegasBountiesIII.esp
51 33 Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.Store.esp
52 34 CourierCacheWSE.esp
53 35 ILO - A World of Pain.esp
54 36 ADAM - Rangers on Patrol.esp
55 37 rotfacetoriches.esp
56 38 NewVegasBounties.esp
57 39 NewVegasBountiesII.esp
58 3a Delay DLC - DM + HH + OWB + LR + GRA.esp
59 3b Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.Store.LITE.esp
60 3c ADAM - MAIN.esp
61 3d ADAM - Outcast Ranger Armour.esp
62 3e ADAM - NCR Patrol Armour.esp
63 3f DarNifiedUINV.esp
64 40 DYNAVISION 2 - Dynamic Lens Effect.esp
Project Nevada - Dead Money.esp
Project Nevada - Gun Runners' Arsenal.esp
Project Nevada - Honest Hearts.esp
65 41 WMX-DLCMerged.esp
Project Nevada - Old World Blues.esp
66 42 The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
67 43 WMX-ArenovalisTextures.esp
68 44 ADAM - Nemesis Armours.esp
69 45 ADAM - Trooper Gloves.esp
70 46 ADAM - Project Nevada Patch.esp
71 47 ammoingredientsloot.esp
72 48 Armored Duster.esp
73 49 boa ncrpahelmet.esp
74 4a Boacombat2glove.esp
75 4b LFox Bottle That Water.esp
76 4c CCO - Perk Rebalance.esp
77 4d CCO - Damage Resistance.esp
78 4e Easy Hacking.esp
79 4f My essential friends (animals).esp
80 50 ED-E flies.esp
81 51 New Vegas redesigned- Honest Hearts.esp
82 52 PipBoyLight.esp
83 53 pipboy2500_edisleado.esp
84 54 More Perks for Honest Hearts Update.esp
85 55 Follower Home Marker.esp
86 56 JIP Companions Command & Control.esp
ManualReload-OldWorldBlues.esp
87 57 ManualReload.esp
88 58 LFox Missing Ammo Recipes GRA DLC.esp
89 59 LFox Missing Ammo Recipes HH DLC.esp
90 5a LFox Missing Ammo Recipes.esp
91 5b More Perks for Old World Blues Update.esp
92 5c More Perks for Dead Money Update.esp
93 5d kochandbohr.esp
94 5e avangraffscorned.esp
95 5f Pacersgambit.esp
96 60 PortableCampsite.esp
97 61 PreorderShotFix.esp
98 62 Project Nevada - Cyberware Additions.esp
99 63 PMT - Faint Heartbeat.esp
PMT - Silent Heartbeat.esp
100 64 PMT - OWB - Hazmat Suit Tweaks.esp
PMT - OWB - Less Generous Sink Buddies.esp
101 65 PMT - OWB - Reduced Big MT Spawns.esp
PMT - OWB - Reduced World Scrap.esp
PMT - OWB - Slave Collar Explosives.esp
102 66 PMT - OWB - Sonic Emitter Robot Damage Fix.esp
103 67 PMT - Responsive Kill Reactions.esp
104 68 RWD-NV v1.4 [standard Version].esp
105 69 RWD-NV v1.4 [standard Version] Update+DLC.esp
106 6a NCR Ranger Helmet Neck Cover.esp
107 6b thestripsentrance.esp
108 6c Freeside Open Patch.esp
109 6d The Weapon Mod Menu.esp
PMT - OWB - Reduced Ammo and Items.esp
110 6e ILO - New Vegas Bounties II.esp
111 6f ILO - New Vegas Bounties.esp
ILO - Nevada Skies Patch.esp
112 70 ILO - YUP Patch.esp
113 71 Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.Honest.Hearts.Grunt.Patch.esp
114 72 AWOP - NVR II.esp
115 73 WMX-EVE-AllDLCMerged.esp
116 74 AWOP-WMX-EVE AllDLCMerged.esp
117 75 Project Nevada - WMX.esp
118 76 Project Nevada - EVE All DLC.esp
119 77 Vurt's WFO.esp
357retex.esp
120 78 singleshot_retex.esp
121 79 Alternative Repairing.esp
122 7a Alternative Repairing - Ultimate Edition.esp
123 7b Alternative Repairing - No Explosions.esp
124 7c Alternative Repairing - Additional Campfires.esp
125 7d Alternative Repairing - Breakdown Item Icons.esp
126 7e Alternative Repairing - NVInteriors.esp
127 7f Alternative Repairing - NVInteriors Combo AWOP Edition.esp
128 80 MTB.esp
129 81 Russell.esp
130 82 Voice dissonance fix.esp
131 83 FNV Realistic Wasteland Lighting - Full.esp
132 84 NVR- Recommended.esp
133 85 Quicker PipBoy Light-0_4Sec.esp
134 86 FlashlightNVSE.esp

 

[dubiousintent]

No problem. Patience I have. Just remember in the future that all we have to go on is what you say in your posts. Often people don't realize what is important and we have to try to "read between the lines". It is best to include an emoticon when you are "making a funny" so we are clear when you aren't being serious. Moving on ...

 

The LO suggests to me a couple of things.

 

1) With that many mods, you definitely need either a "merged patch" or "bashed patch" file, which would be at or very close to the bottom of the LO but I don't see it. See [this S.T.E.P. Guide] which covers both approaches. Use the "Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide" to quickly get functional with "Wrye Flash", which I think is the easier approach for a novice modder.

 

2) You have a number of HUD-UI-Menu mods installed. There are some important subtleties concerning "install order" involved in getting them to work together correctly. If they are working fine, then you can delay this, but if you decide to start over you should read [this post] first where I cover the subject.

 

3) Are you missing any of the "game fixer" mods, such as (in my "install order"):
- [New Vegas Stutter Remover (NVSR)] (requires (NVSE). The 5.0 beta versions are stable. Check version requirements of other mods when choosing.)
- [New Vegas AntiCrash (NVAC)],
- [Better Game Performance],
- [Yukichigai Unofficial Patch (YUP)] (and the various optional patches for it and other mods. There are other YUP patch files than on that page you may have to search out for other mods),
- [Mission Mojave Ultimate Edition - FNV Community Patch (MMUE)] (and it's various optional mod compatibility patches),
- [New Vegas Enhanced Content (NVEC)] (notice it has "bugfix" modules if you don't want the "complete version" with enhancements). I see you have this but it appears to be disabled?

-Dubious-

[HyppieSabotage]

The only ones from the game fixer mods I do not have are NVAC, Better Game Performance, and Mission Mojave. How beneficial do you suppose these would be to someone in my position?

As for Yukichagai, I'm pretty sure I've got that and its subordinate patches/files in order. NVEC I think is disabled because earlier in my playthrough I noticed it was giving me some effects in-game that I didn't much like, and in disabling I probably broke something.

 

The HUD-UI mods I'm at least 99% sure that those are all fine and in working order, because I was able to follow and actually succeed in watching Gopher's guide videos on setting up these many HUD mods up without conflict (or at least fatal conflict.)

 

The Merged patches however, I did not have much luck in watching his guides on these. Once upon a time I tried making a merged patch for this load order, how I managed to get it "working" I've no idea, I don't even know if it is working, but despite my huge amounts of laziness I may try again because while not a game-breaking issue, mine is one that will completely ruin a play-session, especially if said session only comes up to about 16 minutes before having to Ctrl+Alt+Del. :pinch:

[dubiousintent]

I'm using all of those "fixer" files together, and I get 4-5 hour sessions without crashes or freezing. I suggest adding them one at a time and see how it goes.

 

Better Performance doesn't consume a LO slot. NVAC is a NVSE plugin so it doesn't either. Of them all I would consider NVAC the most necessary, but really MMUE is the only new plugin for you.

 

Initially I wondered about MMUE, but then I saw that it has many more fixes than YUP. So I installed it after YUP so it would win any asset file conflicts they might have, and that is where LOOT sorts it. I suspect (but haven't checked) that they don't overlap too much.

 

Note I said NVEC has separate "bugfix" files (listed under "Optional Files"). I don't want all the gameplay plugins it adds (those effects) either, so I only use the "bug fixes" files myself. If they don't affect anything you are using, then skip them.

 

If you have that many mods and aren't particularly interested in which record wins a conflict, then I recommend using the "Bashed Patch" (BP) from Wrye Flash. (The "WB Pictorial Guide" "Basics and Installers Intro" is aimed at just this.) Even if you later decide you want a particular record to win that the BP didn't choose, you can alter it's outcome either by using a "bash tag", or with an "override.esp" file you create in a similar fashion to a "merged patch". I touch on this briefly in the wiki article [Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use].

 

The BP build process can disable any plugins that it completely incorporates. I find this usually frees up a dozen or so slots. I suggest you try creating a BP, then see about adding MMUE as suggested above and rebuild it and see if you can't get under 130 active plugins even with it added.

 

-Dubious-

Edited June 12, 2016 by dubiousintent