WIP perk overhaul, need some advice!

[LazyLionus]

Hey guys! I'm currently in the process of learning the workings of perks in order to understand what can and cannot be done (with myself as the resource limit). My ambition is to make a perk overhaul, with the aim to minimize the pure power upgrades in favour of more contextual perks. (For example rifleman flat 100% damage bonus would be replaced with an ability specifically related to a typical playstyle related to rifles)

 

I currently have run into a couple of walls due to lack of documentation.

 

1. I can't get conditions to work properly. Having tried various different conditions for the purpose of experimentation, I cannot get any of them to work. Below is an image illustrating the type of condition I want to apply, and how I try to implement it. The intent in this case is to limit health regeneration to when your health is below 50%. Any advice on this issue is appreciated.

 

Update: mostly fixed by changing the target to Player (PL) where previously it was Subject (S).

 

http://i.imgur.com/RGUihCw.jpg

 

2. Combat health regeneration. I am aware that there are settings that can be modified, including fCombatHealthRegenRateMult, but I find that editing these has no effect on whether or not health can be regenerated in combat. Why does this have no effect, and how is in-combat-health-regeneration enabled? Update: This is currently the main problem remaining to discuss in this thread.

 

Apologies for my somewhat noobish questions, I'm thankful for anyone taking their time to read and respond to this.

[DDProductions83]

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10957/?

 

For reference since you wanna do what I did :P

 

Your condition needs to run on subject, I noticed when I made health regen perks they worked during combat so not sure if that's a thing to worry about.

 

Conditions will NOT work on the perk area in regards to spells, conditions are best on the spell tab like you are trying or in the magic effect tab. Conditions will work fine in regards to entry points.

[LazyLionus]

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10957/?

 

For reference since you wanna do what I did :tongue:

 

Your condition needs to run on subject, I noticed when I made health regen perks they worked during combat so not sure if that's a thing to worry about.

 

Conditions will NOT work on the perk area in regards to spells, conditions are best on the spell tab like you are trying or in the magic effect tab. Conditions will work fine in regards to entry points.

 

Thanks, I'll take a look at the esp to see how your perks look!

 

I was under the impression that the "S" under target was "subject" thereby referring to the owner of the perk... I'll re-evaluate once I've taken a deeper look into your mod.

[paulatreides0]

A similar question, if I might butt in as I was trying to do something a bit similar, is adjusting values. For example, I tried adding a crit chance to the sniper tree.

 

Okay, worked fine...for the first value. If I added some kind of change via the "entry point" option of the perk options and I used set value, it would stay there no matter what.

So if I set the crit chance of sniper 1 to 5% and then set the crit chance of sniper 3 to 100%, it would remain at 5%, and similarly for other such systems. I thought if you used set to value it just over-rid what came before it. Is this false? Should I use set for the first value and then use add/subtract? I feel like something fishy is going on, because the nuclear physicist perk (the increasing fusion core usage part) works by using set every time it changes a new value, but when I try that it just goes kaput and doesn't change.

Edited June 1, 2016 by paulatreides0

[LazyLionus]

 

So if I set the crit chance of sniper 1 to 5% and then set the crit chance of sniper 3 to 100%, it would remain at 5%, and similarly for other such systems. I thought if you used set to value it just over-rid what came before it.

From what I understand from your question, the rank 1 perk overrides the rank 3 one? If so I noticed Bethesda used a system of "HasPerk" and setting the first rank to only activate if you DO NOT have the second rank, and the same for the opposite. This ensures that only one of the two versions can be active.

[LazyLionus]

Update: it seems like healrate is an AV (or similar) that remains regardless of currently loaded esps. Anyone who wants to mod this should be aware of this by using a save that does not have the relevant perks active before testing.

[paulatreides0]

 

 

So if I set the crit chance of sniper 1 to 5% and then set the crit chance of sniper 3 to 100%, it would remain at 5%, and similarly for other such systems. I thought if you used set to value it just over-rid what came before it.

From what I understand from your question, the rank 1 perk overrides the rank 3 one? If so I noticed Bethesda used a system of "HasPerk" and setting the first rank to only activate if you DO NOT have the second rank, and the same for the opposite. This ensures that only one of the two versions can be active.

 

 

Yes, that is the problem. Which is very, very strange. I unlock the third rank, and it should overwrite the first rank by setting the value to the new one from the third rank instead of the one from the first rank. But it doesn't, the first one continues to overwrite it and it does this for every property that it shares with the first (e.g. breathing AP drain). So it seems that the first rank is active...but at the same time, I was getting the accuracy boost (to headshots in VATS) from rank 3, so that one had to be active too. It seems like, for some reason, rank 3 didn't overwrite rank 1 even though it should have.

 

Also, note, this is a character started from scratch just to test the file. No perks had been taken. It was at a vanilla level three, un-upgraded, leveled up to 100 via the command console and given the adequate perception and sniper rank.

Edited June 1, 2016 by paulatreides0

[LazyLionus]

 

 

 

So if I set the crit chance of sniper 1 to 5% and then set the crit chance of sniper 3 to 100%, it would remain at 5%, and similarly for other such systems. I thought if you used set to value it just over-rid what came before it.

From what I understand from your question, the rank 1 perk overrides the rank 3 one? If so I noticed Bethesda used a system of "HasPerk" and setting the first rank to only activate if you DO NOT have the second rank, and the same for the opposite. This ensures that only one of the two versions can be active.

 

 

Yes, that is the problem. Which is very, very strange. I unlock the third rank, and it should overwrite the first rank by setting the value to the new one from the third rank instead of the one from the first rank. But it doesn't, the first one continues to overwrite it and it does this for every property that it shares with the first (e.g. breathing AP drain). So it seems that the first rank is active...but at the same time, I was getting the accuracy boost (to headshots in VATS) from rank 3, so that one had to be active too. It seems like, for some reason, rank 3 didn't overwrite rank 1 even though it should have.

 

Also, note, this is a character started from scratch just to test the file. No perks had been taken. It was at a vanilla level three, un-upgraded, leveled up to 100 via the command console and given the adequate perception and sniper rank.

 

 

Did you try the solution I mentioned? It can be found in multiple existing perks, so you can find the method in the vanilla fallout4.esm. Whether or not it works would be helpful information :smile:

 

Edit: here's a picture of the bethesda solution I mentioned.

 

http://i.imgur.com/kccTR2O.jpg

[paulatreides0]

 

 

 

 

So if I set the crit chance of sniper 1 to 5% and then set the crit chance of sniper 3 to 100%, it would remain at 5%, and similarly for other such systems. I thought if you used set to value it just over-rid what came before it.

From what I understand from your question, the rank 1 perk overrides the rank 3 one? If so I noticed Bethesda used a system of "HasPerk" and setting the first rank to only activate if you DO NOT have the second rank, and the same for the opposite. This ensures that only one of the two versions can be active.

 

 

Yes, that is the problem. Which is very, very strange. I unlock the third rank, and it should overwrite the first rank by setting the value to the new one from the third rank instead of the one from the first rank. But it doesn't, the first one continues to overwrite it and it does this for every property that it shares with the first (e.g. breathing AP drain). So it seems that the first rank is active...but at the same time, I was getting the accuracy boost (to headshots in VATS) from rank 3, so that one had to be active too. It seems like, for some reason, rank 3 didn't overwrite rank 1 even though it should have.

 

Also, note, this is a character started from scratch just to test the file. No perks had been taken. It was at a vanilla level three, un-upgraded, leveled up to 100 via the command console and given the adequate perception and sniper rank.

 

 

Did you try the solution I mentioned? It can be found in multiple existing perks, so you can find the method in the vanilla fallout4.esm. Whether or not it works would be helpful information :smile:

 

 

Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. I'll give it a try and get back to you tomorrow, if I can get my bloody creation kit working, that is. Damn thing's bugging out atm.

[paulatreides0]

Yes, it works if you do that. It seems that the system works in such a way that it holds the first value no matter what instead of discarding it in favor of the value stored in a higher perk. As such, you have to manually handle this hierarchy. Luckily, you only have to do so every increment. So if Perk1 changes, say, damage, Perk2 leaves damage alone, but Perk3 and Perk4 both change it, then you need to configure it so that:

 

For Perk 1:

HasPerk3 == 0.0

 

For Perk3:

HasPerk4 == 0.0

 

Perk4 requires nothing additional.

 

Note that for things like crit chance, that's not stored as a magical effect, so for things that are only available through the entry point menu, then you have to use the actual perk page's conditions part for it.

 

EDIT: It seems the above may not be quite correct. Crit chance is turning out to be a royal pain in the arse, because it seems to behave properly only whenever it feels like it. So be warned that the above might not be quite correct

 

An image of what is going on:

 

http://s33.postimg.org/x91lziu3z/Sniper_Weirdness.png

 

Rank 1 => 2 everything transitions fine, rank 2=>3 only "Mod Scope Hold Breath Mult" changes, "Mod My Critical Hit Chance" resets back to what it was in Rank 1.

 

My eyes see only red.

Edited June 1, 2016 by paulatreides0