Fixing the issue with mods being stolen on xbox and possibly PS4 soon

[agent42o]

I play both xbox one and pc people don't like there mods being stolen I get it I don't condone it but lets get real pc people aka elitist didn't want console's to ever get mods anyway cause then people couldn't throw it in the console people face's about how much better it is on pc.I play on both vanilla on xbox and modded on pc to have differents experience.Xbox one was never going to get goods mods if they didn't

This is the wrong idea, and the core of the current problem. Any creator can choose what they do with their content. If you decide to mod only for the xbox, then that's your choice, if someone steals that and uploads it here, that's theft, not "elitism."

 

Right now Bethesda linking the steam account to the uploader and requiring the uploader to have purchased FO4 for the PC is a big step, if you steal your steam account gets blocked and you can't upload anymore, that's a good start. Beyond that, they need to hire people to check, verify that if the mod exists here it's the same author.

 

There's too many reasons for them not to, first off, the community here has a good reputation when it comes to support, when someone just steals you don't know what's what and what it's going to do to your game. As a PC user, I have learned over the years how to look for issues, what doesn't seem right and accepted that my downloads can sometimes come at a risk to my save games. But I have also had hours upon hours of added fun here, through Oblivion, F03, FONV, and Skyrim.

 

I don't want to see console users excluded, and I am sure a lot of authors here were fully ready to work with console users to get their creations on both, but with the theft, and worse the reaction from the console community (effectively spitting in mod authors faces) I am sure there's been a lot of change to that attitude. To be honest, while I am disgusted with the thieves, I am more disgusted with the reactions I have seen attacking content creators.

 

Bethesda needs to get a handle on this issue and fast, with PS4 getting mods soon and with the potential for a mod-compatible Skyrim reboot, this could effectively kill a community that I have watched, loved and respected for years.

[avallanche]

Just out of curiosity... what would be the best way for bethesda to truly verify the original creator of a mod? Is there a way to mark the files or it depends solely on reports?

[AsmodesReynolds]

I’ve been keeping quiet on this issue for a while, but this is why we can’t have nice things, because people can’t respect artists. Most people think that they should get entertainment content for free, whether it be news articles (they don’t want to either pay for a newspaper or have ads on or have ads on the new website), music (every single music sharing software from the 90s), etc.

There is a reason why DRM came into existence, in my personal opinion aligns with ddproductions83’s scorched earth is the only way to go, just make sure your mod doesn’t work if it was not downloaded from a source that the author wants, simple. DRM doesn’t have to be intrusive, or even make it difficult for legitimate users, steam is essentially the most successful DRM in existence. I’m sure the combined programming power of moding community can find a solution.

My personal, opinion on the subject is that we should simply, write code in the all mods, which prevent them from working, if they were downloaded, from bethesda.Toxicwaste, regardless on PC, Xbox or PlayStation until they fix their system…. Simple. Multinational companies fundamentally will not care how toxic their community is as long as still providing the function that it was intended, ultimately, in this case extending the playtime of the rather shallow experience. Allow Nexus to continue functioning as it has to keep the community alive. Well, the lumbering giant turtle of Bethesda, learns a lesson that that the music industry’s at the learning 90s.

The Xbox and PlayStation communities, will see all the mods, on Nexus that don’t work on their systems, and push Bethesda to fix bethesda.Toxicwaste in a decent timeline. Just like they pushed to get mods on their system to begin with. There’s no reason why we have to be fundamentally at odds with our new player base. Why don’t we just use their enthusiastic, unrestrained, inpatient energy for something useful.

PS I apologize for any grammar issues its early, I haven't had my coffee and am too lazy grammar check.

[skubblebubble]

Just out of curiosity... what would be the best way for bethesda to truly verify the original creator of a mod? Is there a way to mark the files or it depends solely on reports?

 

A start we can do, from another post I made in modtalk:

 

"

I've put links into my mod descriptions here and on beth.

On beth, it points back to my mod here.

On the description here, it points to the mods on beth.

 

All of them have the following:

 

"NOTE: All my mods will now link back to Nexus as proof I uploaded it.The Nexus page will link back to my uploads for console. If the 2 way links

are NOT there, I did not upload the console version. "

 

At least then, console users who care can tell if the one on beth is legit or not. (and makes it easier to report those that aren't)

 

If I put one up without the link, I'm also going to put in WHY there isn't one.

(adult content, not ready, bugs, whatever)

 

It's one way to let the console users help us. (we all know the bethsite needs work (I'm being generous here) :D )

It also helps us stomp on the moron users. (whoever they may be)

 

oh, feel free to use the note part above as is if you wish."

[Sammorrow33]

 

Just out of curiosity... what would be the best way for bethesda to truly verify the original creator of a mod? Is there a way to mark the files or it depends solely on reports?

 

A start we can do, from another post I made in modtalk:

 

"

I've put links into my mod descriptions here and on beth.

On beth, it points back to my mod here.

On the description here, it points to the mods on beth.

 

All of them have the following:

 

"NOTE: All my mods will now link back to Nexus as proof I uploaded it.The Nexus page will link back to my uploads for console. If the 2 way links

are NOT there, I did not upload the console version. "

 

At least then, console users who care can tell if the one on beth is legit or not. (and makes it easier to report those that aren't)

 

If I put one up without the link, I'm also going to put in WHY there isn't one.

(adult content, not ready, bugs, whatever)

 

It's one way to let the console users help us. (we all know the bethsite needs work (I'm being generous here) :D )

It also helps us stomp on the moron users. (whoever they may be)

 

oh, feel free to use the note part above as is if you wish."

 

This in theory is a wonderful idea. Giving console players access to the tools necessary to help police their part of the modding community is a wonderful start. The ability to search using the in game mod menu for authors along with a title search would help quite a bit. I had to use the in game Bethesda.net mod manager for a while after the 1.5 update so I got a feel for it. It does need some work. The actual website is much better. Newbies to the community, hopefully will see that the mods aren't completely free. Just because you aren't being charged money doesn't make them free and open source. Creative control and credit for their work is required compensation and is all that most modders need or want in exchange for their blood, sweat and tears. You want the creator to be the one who fixes bugs because they know their babies best. Even when the mods are out of the alpha and beta stage they still need to be updated much like children. You take that away and the mod will die over time. Look at no longer supported mods on the Nexus as proof.

It is more like kidnapping instead of pirating. I hope this helps any of you that read this and might think "because it is free it is fair game..." And don't complain when you steal a mod that is meant for a high end rig that can handle 4k textures with a FPS above 60. Remember that current consoles are built for 1080p at best and won't render properly and stutter or drop the FPS to the floor with 4 and 8k textures and high polygon count meshes. It takes time to make mods look good at 1080p. Compare a picture taken in UHD that was down converted to 1080p to that of one taken by a camera that shoots pics in 1080p natively.

[Sammorrow33]

2. Show console players that PC is still better by giving them a limited taste of what we have. You can't know that the grass is greener if you don't know what grass is or what it looks like....

 

This doesn't have anything to do with the problem. Getting PC won't change what kind of person a thief is. Frankly this is off topic.

 

 

 

I get that you want everyone to get along, but there has to be a common sense applied to everything. We cannot justify actions that are both illegal and harmful to the modding community in the long run. Honestly it would be best to postpone bethesda.net untill everything gets sorted out, before any permament damage is done (major modding authors and groups quitting on creating content).

 

If I came across as serious in the 2nd reason then I am sorry for that. I just wanted to make fun of the whole PC master race vs console plebs because I find it absurd because I was a member of the former for many years. I didn't mix PC with gaming. Console was for gaming and the PC was for work, school an watching movies. Now I have experienced what PC can do for games I will never willingly go back. I was just playing devil's advocate for people that believe that modding shouldn't come to console or want validation for spending so much on their personal gaming rigs by trying to exclude others. The lines between consoles and PC gaming are starting to blur and we will all benefit.

[Deleted5060418User]

I saw a comment on a Kotaku post suggesting that mod authors take advantage of the script extender (F4SE) to act as a DRM for their mods, since consoles can't run script extenders. Of course no one is likely to implement F4SE for a re-texture, let alone other more "simple" mods.

[tartarsauce2]

one method is to get a fanboi following on consoles
you could do it fairly quickly too
use army for personal purposes of enforcing copyright
hilarity ensues, become nexus aristocracy lording over the console peasants (peasants are an outgrowth of the late roman imperial slave caste that are essentially landless plebeians which is why the terms are so interchangeable)
DDP is already doing this I think, it's not even on purpose, because of all the creators he seems to be the best suited to kicking it with the console crowds of hoi polloi
no really, he just has that charm of messing with people, like maddox or slim shady, so they all want to be like him or something
because calling people pleb isn't classic enough~
we have to go deeper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_OHvp10rxA

Edited June 12, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[Alexotero1219]

I’ve been keeping quiet on this issue for a while, but this is why we can’t have nice things, because people can’t respect artists. Most people think that they should get entertainment content for free, whether it be news articles (they don’t want to either pay for a newspaper or have ads on or have ads on the new website), music (every single music sharing software from the 90s), etc.

 

There is a reason why DRM came into existence, in my personal opinion aligns with ddproductions83’s scorched earth is the only way to go, just make sure your mod doesn’t work if it was not downloaded from a source that the author wants, simple. DRM doesn’t have to be intrusive, or even make it difficult for legitimate users, steam is essentially the most successful DRM in existence. I’m sure the combined programming power of moding community can find a solution.

 

My personal, opinion on the subject is that we should simply, write code in the all mods, which prevent them from working, if they were downloaded, from bethesda.Toxicwaste, regardless on PC, Xbox or PlayStation until they fix their system…. Simple. Multinational companies fundamentally will not care how toxic their community is as long as still providing the function that it was intended, ultimately, in this case extending the playtime of the rather shallow experience. Allow Nexus to continue functioning as it has to keep the community alive. Well, the lumbering giant turtle of Bethesda, learns a lesson that that the music industry’s at the learning 90s.

 

The Xbox and PlayStation communities, will see all the mods, on Nexus that don’t work on their systems, and push Bethesda to fix bethesda.Toxicwaste in a decent timeline. Just like they pushed to get mods on their system to begin with. There’s no reason why we have to be fundamentally at odds with our new player base. Why don’t we just use their enthusiastic, unrestrained, inpatient energy for something useful.

 

PS I apologize for any grammar issues its early, I haven't had my coffee and am too lazy grammar check.

 

So I literally know next to nothing about programming but would it be possible (and maybe relatively simple?) for mod authors to write their mods in a way that requires some kind of "key" to unlock them otherwise a host of negative effects will happen to the system it is installed on or the mod simply wont work. Then work with nexus to hide the "mod unlock key" code/script or w/e in the nexus mod manager? It would be entirely up to the author if they want to write their mods this way and where they want to upload it but for those who want the added security this could be an idea. Maybe?

 

Again I know literally nothing about coding so feel free to flame me but its just a thought I guess.

[tartarsauce2]

with exception to the general anger at piracy I'm in agreement with asmodes

I mean, DRM does come from it, but the particulars of a 4profit corporate body versus individuals/group of people that work together are different in important ways
to the extent that I want to get into it, mod authors are not soulless profiteering lawyer ran jerks, and should not be subjected to the same market corrections ---- that literally run on the idea that monopolistic practices make for unfair pricing and false manipulation of the market (which ties into worries about bethesda ran modding content actually)

it's obvious that whatever your, mine, or anyone's views on THAT argument, it doesn't apply HERE - and that it's being applied on this topic by some people (not in this thread or forum even but in places)

scorched earth is a MUCH more viable and understandable tactic because the perception of legitimacy is far different with individuals/artists as opposed to conglomerates
scorched earth with a nice big wall with a nice big gate at any rate

I'm kind of amused at how many real life metaphors can be applied to this issue actually - although in almost case some key features/aspects are not applicable, it's still fun! Edited June 12, 2016 by tartarsauce2