Training Area for Skills

[SoulReaver911]

It's just an idea right now, but it's something I'm quite interested in. Of course, if there is a mod out there already for what I'm about to propose, please tell me, I'd love to have it.

 

Alright, the idea is as follows:

 

Instead of all those annoying and repetitive ways to raise your skills (I assume you understand that I mean the regular in-game skills such as "Blade" "Blunt" "Alteration" "Sneak" and such and such) like running around in Deepscorn Hollow raising skill levels by swimming for endless hours while casting spells or sneaking in someone's face while they are asleep in their bed at night to gain those extra sneak points, why don't we mod an entire training area into the game where those dummies and iron boards you see NPC's practicing on will actually count towards your skill points? But to go even further, adding into this "Training Area" new and inventive ways to train for each and every skill?

 

If anyone is interested in brainstorming here, you're welcome to give ideas as how we could go about doing this.

 

And if it's too wild an idea, just having the dummies and iron boards around the game count towards skill points would be good enough.

 

Anyone know how to do that? I'd assume it would mean making all those dummies and boards NPC's....or something. Again, any suggestions welcome.

 

For more background info on what I'm talking about go here.

[Sypron]

You can't actually have statics that train. The amount of scripting involved would be astronomically pointless seeing as you can train weapons on NPC's. I'm not saying this is a bad idea, in fact I would go so far as to help out with a team making this. Just pointing it out that NPC's make the best training "dolls" if set up in the right way.

 

If anyone good at scripting and NPC behaviour wants to make something like this I'd like them to know I can help with the world building element of it, as well as texturing for new "sparring weapons."

 

As for the mod, what I'd like to see is some form of training area, or possibly different areas in each city that specialise in 2 or 3 skills. You go there and pay for their services then spar for a while. On NPC's this is easy, set them up to fight like normal, make it so their weapon doesn't hurt you, and the combat stops when they hit 25% health or so. This has been done in the fighter's stronghold DLC, which works well for any weapon or spell training. Unfortunately, it does not train armor or block as the spar partner never damages you. Other things could be done, like re-locking chests for security training, alchemy areas set up with cheap apparatus and mountains of cheap ingredients or pick-pocket challenges where somehow bounties are removed whether you are successful or not.

 

Anyway, enough ranting. I would like to see this and I would like to help if someone else wants to start it. I'm off school now, so I'm free from study.

[SoulReaver911]

With the different Training Areas around the world, we could connect different areas to the specialized Guilds. That would explain right off why you would train for certain skills in one area, how you would train for them (like pickpocketing for the Thieves Guild, Alchemy and Magic Sparring for the Mage's Guild, and so on) and where those training areas would be located, such as a second area to the guild hall's basement.

 

Also the NPC Dummy. Using a new NPC re-textured and re-meshed would be the way to go. Not sure about the iron boards....seeing how static items don't take damage, the scripting would be pointless, as you said. That could be ideally solved with another new NPC, that just looks like the board. It would take some work to get that right though.

 

And thanks for the input and support, I'd love to actually see this happen.

[Sypron]

There's no need to use people that look like statics, just use people! People act like real "sparring partners." Perhaps even, if you have a high skill in something people will come up to you asking to train with monetary incentives.

[SoulReaver911]

Vagrant0 can you give a link to this thread? It would be good to read previous ideas towards this mod.

 

And the idea of someone actually approaching you could be a well-implemented feature, but it would be annoying if done casually in game, like on the street. But in a guild it would be interesting, and only if you were part of that guild. It would certainly add the extra incentive. And we would have to even add voice acting since we there are so many members in the halls that aren't useful otherwise. I scoped out some of the Fighter's Guilds, and Leyawiin has a particularly sweet basement that doesn't seem to have people in it (not often at best) that could easily be molded into a Training area, in which it already is, but lacking in the what we want obviously.

 

Easily a great place for sparring. It's got a middle with a mat, nothing obstructing the way and such. It has two gates in the back for storing equipment, already a useful area, but can be taken out if necessary. It has a top level that is out of the way and looks down towards the map. It's pretty fit for the needs of training, if only it could be used as such without modding it!

 

But all in all, sparring here would be easy enough without the need of creating a new room for the Fighter's Guild anyway.

 

What do you think?

[Vagrant0]

I don't think you should add the sparring areas into guilds. That limits who has access to it. I think they should be either in the exterior, or new public interiors. I think though, with the sparring partners who engage in combat with you, the guards may see fit too "help".

That would be part of the problem discussed already. While you can make it so that NPCs don't take damage if you're in the same faction, it doesn't raise weapon skill, and they will still actually attack you if you hit them too many times. Having an NPC actually engaged in combat with the player comes with two problems, the first being that anyone witnessing the fight may join in. The second being all that you'd have to do to keep that NPC from getting killed by the player durring training, but still killable outside. Having specific 0 damage (enchanted with restore health) that must be used in training, and cannot be used outside, would be a start. You'd also have to script the NPC to control their behavior inside and outside of training.

 

Really though, it just isn't as simple and easy as just using a summon to beat on. It wouldn't be too hard to just spawn some scamps or something who would just sit there taking a beating. Or even scamps or something which would fight back, but do next to no damage. A summoned creature doesn't have as many problems as a NPC because attacks aren't treated as crime, and they can be easier thrown away.

[TheTerminator2004]

This is probably a silly question, but... would it be possible to make a new creature that looked like an NPC?

[SoulReaver911]

Yes. The Sparring can be a problem, though making new NPC's with textures isn't difficult, and making enemies look like any average normal NPC wouldn't be difficult either.

 

But making a new entire creature would take a lot more effort. It would be easier to use an already existing creature to remodel.

 

About making a NPC killable outside and inside training, I'm not sure what mission or missions, but I recall being able to knock out an important character during said mission or string of mission, and then later being able to kill him.

 

Also, I think there is a sweet spot in which you can kill Lucien Lechance by retaliating after he meets you, instead of agreeing in which you can't kill him later.

 

We could implement that surely. Is there a reason we can't?

 

And also, I know sparring would be a great way to practice and level skills, but putting in some "fake" static objects to hack at is good too. I'm referring to such NPC's as the Deepscorn Prisoner who never retaliates and doesn't wake up. Already he's a great way to level up skills and what not. Wouldn't we basically be able to position him and use him as a dummy? The script is already partially there.

[TheTerminator2004]

I was thinking, why not use the skeleton used for people, and the meshes, as a creature? The only problems I can think of involve the fact that bodies are split up into several separate meshes...

 

And it is possible to fight someone without killing them, or anything, I was playing The Legacy only the other day, and that starts off in that exact way.

[Vagrant0]

I was thinking, why not use the skeleton used for people, and the meshes, as a creature? The only problems I can think of involve the fact that bodies are split up into several separate meshes...

The problem with using the skeleton skeleton for anything like that is that the dying animations (and maybe even just being knocked out) involve the arms falling off... Something which would work bad unless the arms were designed to be detachable. A NPC sparing partner really can't be done in a way which would not have the potential for problems to happen. The main issue is trying to get around how the game handles crimes. Unless an NPC attacks you first, hitting them counts as an assault. If the NPC attacks you and there is anyone else around with a high disposition to either you or the NPC, that other person will join in the fight, regardless who started it, as long as it didn't commit a crime.

 

IE. NPC attacks you, and someone who likes that NPC more than you, will try to attack you. If the NPC attacks you, and that other person likes you more than that NPC, they will help you. If you attack that NPC, the other person will either attack you, or just try to flee the area.

 

If you have an NPC scripted to change to essential, then start a fight with the player, once that NPC gets knocked out, they will stop trying to fight the player, but if the player tries continuing right away, it will count as an assault. If you have the recovering NPC immediately start combat again, they will probably end up just running away because they would be low on health. If you don't have anything to change the NPC back to non-essential, they will remain unkillable. All that scripting, and it still wouldn't work perfectly.

 

Compared to just having a spawner somewhere that generates a creature which the player can beat on. When it dies, the corpse is removed and the player can just spawn another.