The Great Imperial vs. Stormcloak Debate

[LittleHypocrite]

F*ck this sh*t, I want a new fraction. both sides s*cks. Racist nords? banned Talos? corrupt empire? ulfric, the power-hungry ass? come on, why can't you shoot both sides?...=S I asked nearly every npc in the game and visited lots of forums, and what did I find? nothing. I wanted to belive the one side is the "good" or at least better, but noo... =(

 

In my opinion, things aren't black and white in politics or life for that matter. The good thing is that both factions have their good things and bad, which makes the choice a delicate one. But I agree with you on the "shoot both sides". You can't continue the main quest without siding with one. No freelancer possibilities... Maybe in time, someone will mod a third one in.

[StormHammer81]

I found the last piece of the puzzle from what I was saying earlier:

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Forsworn

 

 

The Markarth Incident

 

While the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion fought the Great War, much of the Empire was abandoned by the Imperials. The Reachmen long held that they were the true owners of the Reach and for centuries begrudgingly accepted Nord rule. Seeing the perfect opportunity, they rebelled against the Nords and overtook the near defenseless city of Markarth and all of the Reach. Their control over the hold lasted for two years from 4E 174 to 4E 176 and was administered relatively peacefully, with only a few of the harshest Nord landowners put to death.

 

In 4E 176, the son of the deposed Jarl, Igmund, made a promise to Ulfric Stormcloak to allow free worship of Talos in exchange for putting down the rebellion and retaking the Reach. Igmund knew this promise was in direct violation of the White-Gold Concordat, but wagered the Thalmor would not discover it. Ulfric lead a Nord militia against the Reachmen and used the Thu'um to shout them from the very walls of Markarth and then drove them from the city. Captured Reachmen were brutally executed and tortured, with very few being spared.

 

The surviving Reachmen fled to the wilds of the Reach, creating what would become the Forsworn. Their leader, Madanach, was secretly imprisoned in the Cidhna Mine by Thonar Silver-Blood in an attempt to leverage control over the Forsworn. When the Imperial Legion and the Thalmor finally returned to the region, they discovered the presence of Talos worship. Igmund was forced to arrest Ulfric and his men or risk outright war over religious conflict. The Stormcloaks were eventually allowed to leave, but Igmund's broken promise left a fissure that would eventually widen into the Stormcloak Rebellion. The Forsworn still remember the cruelty of Ulfric and seek vengeance against him and all Nords as a result.

 

 

It seems to me that the Thalmor and the Stormcloaks have a lot in common. I feel sorry for the Stormcloaks, but Ulfric went above and beyond the call of duty when he butchered the Forsworn. The Imperials were wrong, but at least they didn't butcher the Stormcloaks.

 

If Ulfric doesn't get his way = Butcher and Torture

If the Imperials don't get their way = Due Process or Letting it go.

 

LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!

Edited March 3, 2012 by bigmagy1981

[crusader58]

I've concluded that it does not matter which you choose to follow (imperial or stormcloak), they are equally corrupt and the politics of skyrim are always going to be unstable. What it really comes down to is this....which of the two does your characters traits most suit ? Imperial or Stormcloak ? ...way I see it ...is ........F**k Em all ....Skyrim is MINE ..I am the TRUE RULER for I am DRAGONBORN. MWUHAHAHAHA !!!!

[theliferulz12]

I am going to go with the imperials because although they are a puppet government, the Elves were able to force them into a treaty even with the might of the imperial army behind the Skyrim imperials. Even though the Thalmor forced them to sign a treaty, they did it to try to save the empire (and that includes Skyrim) by signing the treaty, whereas if the Stormcloaks win, they wont have an imperial army at their back with trained men to drive out the Thalmor as they will try to, and the Thalmor, in retaliation, will probably wipe out half the population.

 

Another reason is in which you hear how both sides are going to try to win jarl balgruff over, the imperials try to make a letter to balgruff telling him to join the imperials where as the Stormcloaks decide on maybe killing or driving out jarl balgruff and taking his city by force. So the Stormcloaks seem like terrorists and the imperial might be able to drive out the Thalmor if all of Skyrim was behind them and not driven in half by Ulfric Stormcloak.

[xutianyangkevin]

SPOILERS?!

 

According to Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Talos is indeed a Divine. (See 'Blood of the Divines' quest for Oblivion). Thus is is a pretty bad idea to betray almighty Talos right? Yes. It would be wrong to renounce Talos. You'd think Ulfric has the right idea... :thumbsup:

 

Yet I believe I've seen (in the 'Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak') that Ulfric has once been an 'asset' to the Elves. And his rebellion as of now is still an 'asset' to the Dominion's favor. :tongue:

 

Then we must turn to a more global political view. The Dominion has claimed the southern half of Tamriel. Hammerfell has denounced the Empire. Morrowind is still in chaos. If Skyrim were to also leave the Empire, the Cyrodill Empire would crumble. How long would it take for the united Dominion to crush an weakened Skyrim? :confused:

 

The Empire is a pile of muck too right now. In 'The Talos Mistake' book, it is clear that they have forgotten that Talos is indeed a Divine, and saved Tamriel during the Oblivion crisis. They are weak, unfaithful, and are succumbing to the Dominion daily. :wallbash:

 

But Vignar Graymane, Legate Rikke, and Hadvar's uncle Alvor has the answers. :thumbsup:

 

The Empire was forged by the Nords! :dance:

 

The nords are utterly doomed to violence while under the command of Ulfric. And the Stormcloaks will never find peace with the rest of the races in Tamriel. They need to support the Empire! Even though Talos may be banned in public and vocally, their faith should come from their hearts, like Legate Rikke. Only an united Empire may able able to reclaim Tamriel. Only an united Empire can protect Tamriel from other invasions (example: Akaviri).

 

Most importantly, they need the dragonborn. :happy: BECAUSE the dragonborn is the gateways between the myths and man/mer. And only through the dragon bloodline will a united Empire suceed. Talos was once dragonborn, and the Nords worship him. Now the dovakiin must convince the nords.

 

Long Live the Empire! Someone quickly stab Tites Mede the Second! Long Live THE DRAGONBORN!

[Victor111]

"What man is a man who does not try to make this world a better place?" (Kingdom of Heaven)

 

This beautiful quote illustrates how Stormcloakes look upon Skyrim.

I decided to join the course of the Stormcloakes for the following reasons:

 

 

1. Rebellions are cool.

2. It's better to join a just cause under a bad leader than a wrong cause under a good leader.

3. Contrary to the Stormcloakes the Imperials do not respect key values like freedom of speech (beheading of citizen upon entering Solitude), freedom of religion(!!!) and most of all the right to rule yourself. This is very serious and by far outweighs any racism or selfishness on Ulfric's side.

4. The Empire tried to behead you. In real life if someone would try and behead me for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time I would most certainly not forgive them so easily. Your character must be a damn nice guy/girl to join the Imperials after that.

5. The Stormcloaks racism has a reason. The Elves tried to exterminate the Nords back in the day. Not to mention the Thalmor. Let the Elves first win back the Nords respect instead of start whining about discrimination.

6. The Empire is a rotten, corrupt and brutal faction. You can either try talk that right or do something about it. Besides, the empire's trade only benefits a few( Battle-born Gray-mane discussion). Overall the Stormcloak faction has more Passion and power to it. On top of that the Empire is sort of a puppet governement. Not really my type of thing.

7.If the Stormcloaks can defeat the empire then they should also be able to hold stand against the Thalmor. The nord's courage and strong will outweigh any number of soldiers the Empire or Thalmor may bring.

8. "Stormcloaks" sounds cool.

9. Most of the empire arguments are about what the empire could be for Skyrim. Point is, the Empire is none of those things. She let down her people, and now it is the people's good right to do something about it.

10. Nuff said.

 

"What man is a man who does not try to make this world a better place ?"

 

Well, I solved it for you guys.

It's an Imperial!!! An imperial who rather talks his way round than face facts.

 

So my bearded Nord character will roar: " FREEDOM OR SOVNGARDE!!"

 

Have fun and enjoy this amazing game!

[StormHammer81]

"1. Rebellions are cool."

 

Like Rwandan Genocide? After what Ulfric did to the Forsworn, well... enough said.

 

"2. It's better to join a just cause under a bad leader than a wrong cause under a good leader."

 

I respect and to a certain degree even like Ulfric. However, I would not say his cause is just or him. I do not trust Ulfric. You know plenty of Germans said that during WWII.

 

"3. Contrary to the Stormcloakes the Imperials do not respect key values like freedom of speech (beheading of citizen upon entering Solitude), freedom of religion(!!!) and most of all the right to rule yourself. This is very serious and by far outweighs any racism or selfishness on Ulfric's side."

 

Couldn't be any further from the truth. Rogvir got himself executed will he let Ulfric... runaway and hide after he murdered the King, his best friend. He was derelict in his duty. Had nothing to do with freedom of speech. Imperials DO respect freedom of speech, look at the Talos Speaker in Whiterun... Standing next to a Giant Shrine of Talos. With that guy freely speaking out against the Empire every day. The Jarls are also largely independent rulers of their holds. Ulfric tortured and murdered many, many forsworn (Then Reachmen) in the name of Talos during the Markarth incident. Is this what Talos really wants? Should my world give up and die so you can live in your perfect world?

 

"4. The Empire tried to behead you. In real life if someone would try and behead me for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time I would most certainly not forgive them so easily. Your character must be a damn nice guy/girl to join the Imperials after that."

 

Absolutely, agree 100%. I am a pretty nice guy. But you know what? ... I am NO Traitor either.

 

"5. The Stormcloaks racism has a reason. The Elves tried to exterminate the Nords back in the day. Not to mention the Thalmor. Let the Elves first win back the Nords respect instead of start whining about discrimination."

 

Absolutely. I am with you on this one.

 

"6. The Empire is a rotten, corrupt and brutal faction. You can either try talk that right or do something about it. Besides, the empire's trade only benefits a few( Battle-born Gray-mane discussion). Overall the Stormcloak faction has more Passion and power to it. On top of that the Empire is sort of a puppet governement. Not really my type of thing."

 

Not entirely true, though not entirely false either. Titus Mede II brought all of this down on everyone. He must pay!!! Legate Rikker, Tullius, Alvor and others prove the Empire IS NOT as bad as some people make it to appear. The Elder Council and the lol Joke of an Emperor are really messed up however. Dragonborn can fix all of this, he/she is a legit successor to the Imperial Thrown. And I would rather answer to the Dragonborn than Ulfric and his Corruption. You're saying then Ulfric isn't corrupt OR vengeful?!?!

 

Gray-manes are kool people though.

 

"7.If the Stormcloaks can defeat the empire then they should also be able to hold stand against the Thalmor. The nord's courage and strong will outweigh any number of soldiers the Empire or Thalmor may bring."

 

Now, this is pure *explecit* and Wishful Thinking. There is an ENORMOUS difference between fighting the Empire and fighting the Dominion. Those Thalmor Mages will burn right through the Courage and Strenght of man which will be greatly diminished from the Civil War. You know damn well the Thalmor are going to pick them all off one at a time like they've done every other province. IF Skyrim had just seceded from the Empire under Torygg, there would have been NO Civil War. Think about it. So then, why did Ulfric really kill Torygg, his "Good Friend?" Think hard on that one. No matter who wins, Skyrim will be torn straight down the middle and dis-em bowled. Indeed, she will most certainly NOT stand for long against a DETERMINED and UNITED ALDMERI DOMINION. Doesn't matter how many ways there are to get into Skyrim, the Thalmor will find a way. And THEY also know the lay of the land too.

 

"8. "Stormcloaks" sounds cool."

 

Absolutely and I love their uniforms. Goes really good with Plate Armor.

 

"9. Most of the empire arguments are about what the empire could be for Skyrim. Point is, the Empire is none of those things. She let down her people, and now it is the people's good right to do something about it."

 

Absolutely. Although once again, it was Titus Mede II but ok. They screwed up but there is or before Ulfric got started was a plan to make things right again. We'll never know now. However, the Empire still does much good for Skyrim. And the Empire while they signed the Treaty, had NO intention of Enforcing the ban on Talos into people's lives. It was just done officially, but not Enforced. Well, not UNTIL ULFRIC STARTED AGITATING ABOUT IT. Seeing a pattern here.

 

"10. Nuff said."

 

No.

 

 

"What man is a man who does not try to make this world a better place ?"

 

If this is a reference to Ulfric, I'm afraid you've bagged the wrong horse. Seems at least to me, like the Empire was still doing the most good until Ulfric came along.

 

"Well, I solved it for you guys."

 

This comment is why I'm writing this response.

 

Nuff said.

 

"It's an Imperial!!! An imperial who rather talks his way round than face facts."

 

Bro ham which would prefer, Diplomacy and Reason, or the Sword and Vengeance? Take a sip.

Edited March 6, 2012 by bigmagy1981

[thelamogio1]

SPOILERS AHEAD

Pro Thalmor position :dance:

Some background first: My character is an Altmer "agent", his goal is to assist the full fruition of elven interests.

 

For this reason stormcloaks were supported. The empire loses a very valuable ally (they retook TIC only with the help of the nords) and also manpower and resources. On the same time a skyrim ruled by ulfric is at best ruinned, since he is a narrowminded racist in a land with a very big number of dunmer refugees (that will easily get fed up and fight for their rights) and also because the Thalmor can easily discredit him to his hardcore supporters by making known that he provided information while he was captured during the great war (they can lie too :devil: ). Also, me being altmer AND their champion can easily be used to reinforce that (and also give me the best oportunity to assasinate him if need be).

On the other hand him being not diplomatic at all is helpfull to us, cause i did a couple of things without the stormcloaks knowing: a) I freed the forsworn leader, a man who HATES ulfric! war will continue, forsworn will bolster their attacks to the weakened nords, now that they have their leader back (and they should! ulfric went all genocide on them!) b) I killed the Emperor. In skyrim. Can you imagine if Obama was assasinated while in Iraq? there would be hell! The nords killed the emperor!! He came in peace and they slaughtered him!! or that would be the rumor my fellow altmer will spread :wink: finally i made a visit to each fort stormcloaks occupied after they won... and killed everyone while transformed into a werewolf, did that at most cities too, though i only killed soldiers (killing civilians and children is what nords do, not us Altmer! dont let Justianus Quintius' propaganda fool you) On top of that i achieved the highest rank on most of the institutions in the providence! For example my Dark Brotherhood subordinates will carry out assasinations of troublesome individuals while my Thieves guild comrades will assist with scouting and securing documents for our cause! On the same time Companions and the college will see a weird increase of altmeri/bosmeri/khajiti membership that can be used to maintain cells of highly trained soldiers inside skyrim under the noses of the nords (when we come in force they will conduct special operations behind enemy lines or simply fight alongside the rest of us)

Stormcloaks rulling skyrim also means that the Thalmor have a solid excuse for attacking it for not following the whitegold concordat since they are still part of the empire (despite having rebelled) the empire of course will either assist the Thalmor (that would be hillarious!!!) or probably do nothing (they have signed a truce, remeber?) and why should they? Nords hate them and the murder of the emperor doesnt make imperials like nords back either.

Another thing is the dragonborn issue. Not only the public loves me and thinks me as their hero (poor fools) i am also going to master my thuum and have its secrets revealed to the thalmor (i assume i am the first elf to ever learn it) An exotic superweapon exclusive to nords will be at our disposal for study and ways to counter it :D As for the dragons.. they still attack villages and cause trouble. Guess what, when An altmer high king rules Skyrim, I (the only person capable of effectivly exterminating the dragons) will kill them all and the nords will herald us Altmer as their saviors....

 

(I hope i wasn't of topic)

Edited March 6, 2012 by thelamogio1

[Victor111]

"1. Rebellions are cool."

 

Like Rwandan Genocide? After what Ulfric did to the Forsworn, well... enough said.

 

"2. It's better to join a just cause under a bad leader than a wrong cause under a good leader."

 

I respect and to a certain degree even like Ulfric. However, I would not say his cause is just or him. I do not trust Ulfric. You know plenty of Germans said that during WWII.

 

"3. Contrary to the Stormcloakes the Imperials do not respect key values like freedom of speech (beheading of citizen upon entering Solitude), freedom of religion(!!!) and most of all the right to rule yourself. This is very serious and by far outweighs any racism or selfishness on Ulfric's side."

 

Couldn't be any further from the truth. Rogvir got himself executed will he let Ulfric... runaway and hide after he murdered the King, his best friend. He was derelict in his duty. Had nothing to do with freedom of speech. Imperials DO respect freedom of speech, look at the Talos Speaker in Whiterun... Standing next to a Giant Shrine of Talos. With that guy freely speaking out against the Empire every day. The Jarls are also largely independent rulers of their holds. Ulfric tortured and murdered many, many forsworn (Then Reachmen) in the name of Talos during the Markarth incident. Is this what Talos really wants? Should my world give up and die so you can live in your perfect world?

 

"4. The Empire tried to behead you. In real life if someone would try and behead me for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time I would most certainly not forgive them so easily. Your character must be a damn nice guy/girl to join the Imperials after that."

 

Absolutely, agree 100%. I am a pretty nice guy. But you know what? ... I am NO Traitor either.

 

"5. The Stormcloaks racism has a reason. The Elves tried to exterminate the Nords back in the day. Not to mention the Thalmor. Let the Elves first win back the Nords respect instead of start whining about discrimination."

 

Absolutely. I am with you on this one.

 

"6. The Empire is a rotten, corrupt and brutal faction. You can either try talk that right or do something about it. Besides, the empire's trade only benefits a few( Battle-born Gray-mane discussion). Overall the Stormcloak faction has more Passion and power to it. On top of that the Empire is sort of a puppet governement. Not really my type of thing."

 

Not entirely true, though not entirely false either. Titus Mede II brought all of this down on everyone. He must pay!!! Legate Rikker, Tullius, Alvor and others prove the Empire IS NOT as bad as some people make it to appear. The Elder Council and the lol Joke of an Emperor are really messed up however. Dragonborn can fix all of this, he/she is a legit successor to the Imperial Thrown. And I would rather answer to the Dragonborn than Ulfric and his Corruption. You're saying then Ulfric isn't corrupt OR vengeful?!?!

 

Gray-manes are kool people though.

 

"7.If the Stormcloaks can defeat the empire then they should also be able to hold stand against the Thalmor. The nord's courage and strong will outweigh any number of soldiers the Empire or Thalmor may bring."

 

Now, this is pure *explecit* and Wishful Thinking. There is an ENORMOUS difference between fighting the Empire and fighting the Dominion. Those Thalmor Mages will burn right through the Courage and Strenght of man which will be greatly diminished from the Civil War. You know damn well the Thalmor are going to pick them all off one at a time like they've done every other province. IF Skyrim had just seceded from the Empire under Torygg, there would have been NO Civil War. Think about it. So then, why did Ulfric really kill Torygg, his "Good Friend?" Think hard on that one. No matter who wins, Skyrim will be torn straight down the middle and dis-em bowled. Indeed, she will most certainly NOT stand for long against a DETERMINED and UNITED ALDMERI DOMINION. Doesn't matter how many ways there are to get into Skyrim, the Thalmor will find a way. And THEY also know the lay of the land too.

 

"8. "Stormcloaks" sounds cool."

 

Absolutely and I love their uniforms. Goes really good with Plate Armor.

 

"9. Most of the empire arguments are about what the empire could be for Skyrim. Point is, the Empire is none of those things. She let down her people, and now it is the people's good right to do something about it."

 

Absolutely. Although once again, it was Titus Mede II but ok. They screwed up but there is or before Ulfric got started was a plan to make things right again. We'll never know now. However, the Empire still does much good for Skyrim. And the Empire while they signed the Treaty, had NO intention of Enforcing the ban on Talos into people's lives. It was just done officially, but not Enforced. Well, not UNTIL ULFRIC STARTED AGITATING ABOUT IT. Seeing a pattern here.

 

"10. Nuff said."

 

No.

 

 

"What man is a man who does not try to make this world a better place ?"

 

If this is a reference to Ulfric, I'm afraid you've bagged the wrong horse. Seems at least to me, like the Empire was still doing the most good until Ulfric came along.

 

"Well, I solved it for you guys."

 

This comment is why I'm writing this response.

 

Nuff said.

 

"It's an Imperial!!! An imperial who rather talks his way round than face facts."

 

Bro ham which would prefer, Diplomacy and Reason, or the Sword and Vengeance? Take a sip.

 

 

 

First of all I want to say in general that I've never seen a thread going this deep into the subject. It's a beautiful thing and absolutely amazing that this is happening about something purely fictional.

 

But to the point.

Ok I have to admit I exaggerated some arguments in my post (also to make a good discussion). You make some good points in your commentary on my previous post.

Though I agree with some, I don't think you're always fully getting what I meant to say.

 

1. First of all I don't think the Rwanda Genocide is relevant to what I said. When I say `rebellions are cool´, you sure understand I'm not talking about genocides or similar things, ok? I'm talking about rebellions as they're portaited books (e.g. The Varden in Eragon, or the Hobbit Uprising in the end of LotR), history and films (American Revolution, Robin Hood, arabic Spring etc.). That's what I'm talking about when talking about cool rebellions, and that was the point I was trying to make, since there are parallels to the Stormcloak Rebellion.

 

About the Markarth Incident, during the Great War the forsworn (who are one of the only people in Skyrim who are truly evil/bad) took Markarth from the Nords, who in their turn took it back. The Forsworn are monsters, driving them out after all that happened would be a logical reaction. Ulfric and his men, as a reward for recapturing Markarth, were promised freedom of religion, which, as later turned out, was not true due to the White-Gold Concordat. Although this may not support my point 1 it does support the Stormcloaks course. They felt betrayed by the Empire. Still, let's try not to make a major point out of the forsworn.

 

2. `I do not trust Ulfric. You know plenty of Germans said that during WWII.´ You mean lots of Germans supported the nazi's cause but not Hitler himself? Hitler was a great speaker, or in more suitable words, his speech level was over 99. In that way (I said in THAT WAY) Hitler was a great leader, but his plans were horrible, so that would be a `bad cause under a good leader´. Going deeper, Ulfric would be more like Churchill, racist, but on the right side.

 

3. You got a point here. I exaggerated the freedom of speech issue. That is indeed a little bulls*** from my side actually. Still, remains abolition of freedom of religion and freedom to rule yourself. With banning the worship of Talos the Empire denies it's own heritage, which in my eyes makes them worthless rulers. Also, I wouldn't directly say Ulfric murdered the High King. From what I picked up, Ulfric killing Torygg could just as well be a duel in old nord fashion as a murder. Plus, Torygg was not Ulfric's good friend. He respected Ulfric, that's all. And if the High King respects you, you sure are respectable.

 

`Is this what Talos really wants?´ Well, Talos most definetely doesn't want his worship to get banished.

 

4. Traitor to the empire? What do you mean here?

 

5. Thank you sir.

 

6. I don't understand what you mean with `Ulfric and his corruption´. The Empire is corrupt, Ulfric is just (a little) racist and (hypothetically) egoïst. That are the flaws in Ulfric's character portaited by Bethesda, not corruption. Also, Ulfric is Dragonborn too. Why not let the Dovakhiin side with his fellow shouter instead of inheriting a rotten and crumbeling system?

 

Yeah, Gray-Manes are cool ^^

 

7. Here too I exaggerated. I totally agree with you about the Thalmor. Indeed, `No matter who wins, Skyrim will be torn straight down the middle and dis-em bowled.´ Still, if I had to chose which side would fight the Thalmor, I would choose the Stormcloaks, since of all Skyrim's people the Nords are the bravest and best warriors. Don't deny it, look at the description in the character creation process. Also, the Imperials wouldn't have the people's support like the Stormcloakes have. Therefore I choose the Stormcloakes to protect Skyrim. Besides, the dragonborn has to count for something...

 

8. Agree, no words needed.

 

9. It is a good thing Ulfric made the people realise they were being cheated. Like with the Arabic Spring, sometimes someone needs to point out your rights for you. Thank you Ulfric, for agitating this issue.

 

And thank you, bigmagy1981, for having this interesting discussion.

 

 

"What man is a man who does not try to make this world a better place ?"

 

This is actually meant as a rethorical question, meant to point out the Empire's incompetence and it's lack of will to change for the better. Ulfric is a man, because he tries to make this world a better place, at least for the Nords. I joked a little when `solving the question´, since it's rethorical.

 

So, you made some good points, but I'm still a Stormcloak.

 

Edit:

 

1.You made me think about Ulfric killing the High King, I indeed do not see why he would do that, other than to weaken the empire. Very interesting.

2. Any conspracy theories involving Ulfric and the Thalmor on one side I will not adress, since the dossier clearly states Ulfric refuses any further contact with the Thalmor. And thus he is most definitely not collaborating with the elves.

3. Major reason for me to side with the Stormcloakes: they're much more charismatic than the crumbeling Empire. Much more energy, power, good will, bravery and honor.

4. The Imperials have a torture room. Their colours (and those of their capital) are black and red. The colours of evil (I'm not saying the Empire is evil).

 

A good day to you and everyone else.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Victor111

[StormHammer81]

Right. I'm going to go bring my Elven Armor down from the Attic and get her all shiny and polished up.

 

Think I'll just head to the nearest Thalmor Embassy and sign up. :dance:

 

I find it hard to believe they didn't include this in the game, maybe in a DLC.

 

But yeah, once Skyrim kicks out the Empire that's, damn... that's it folks!

 

Talk about a sh*t storm. Holy *explecit*

 

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION

Edited March 7, 2012 by bigmagy1981