Gabryal Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Welcome back to the ranks of free men bigmagy, we welcome you with open arms Edited February 14, 2013 by Gabryal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have respect for you two as well. You put up a hell of an argument Bigmagy. Lt. You're one hell of an expert on this subject. I like to see myself as A Stormcloak through and through. All in all I concur with Gabryal. Stormcloak117 out. If the site calls me I shall return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabryal Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 A great battle was fought over the last hundred or more posts, a battle between champions, but a battle between friends. In the end there was a victor, but that victor was logic. That victor was freedom, that victor was friendship, and that victor was a microcosm of Skyrim itself. The Stormcloaks fight for Skyrim, we fight for the freedom to make our own mistakes, and we understand that we will make our own mistakes but that they will belong to us and not to an Emperor who cares nothing for our traditions or our culture or our very lives. It is true that to get there Skyrim must suffer the horrors of war, it is true that to get there will set brother against brother. It is true that heartache and horror lay along the one road left to us to find our freedom, but when a battle is won, brothers will still be brothers. Skyrim will still be Skyrim and we will be able to heal what was broken apart by such things as the Thalmor menace, and the WGC, and when a brother returns to our ranks, to the ranks of those who believe that our lives are our own and do not belong to any tyrant in a golden city hundreds of miles away, it is as if the whole of the world is returned to us. For in each man who makes the choice to be free, for each sword that is raised in the air in defiance of tyranny, we know. A Stormcloak is more than a man or woman, it is an Idea, and you can't kill an idea, not so long as it rests in the breast of one person who is willing to raise steel to defend it. We are Stormcloak, and we shall endure whatever may come, as free men, even to the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrqiv1122 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I really don't support stormcloacks and imperials I don't want to get involved in their civil war so I make peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asensio Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 In my personal opinion. I believe the empire died with Martin Septim. Also playing as a nord might sway the vote a little in the stormcloak side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer81 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) @AsensioWe will see what fate the Empire meets, however you are correct about playing as a Nord.I believe that defending the right of any group of people to fight for their culture and heritage is worth rebellion, and with it total war, with all the madness and horror that comes with it.I believe that maintaining the empire is worth oppressing all of it's citizens, and that should they rebel it is worth total war, with all the madness and horror that comes with it.LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!! Edited February 24, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabryal Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 You really can't agree with both because they're mutually exclusive, but I've explained all of that long long long ago and won't go back to it. If you wish to pretend you can go right ahead, but it's utter fantasy not based anywhere even close to logic. You can't stand against oppression when people's civil rights ( their right to worship as they choose ) have already been outlawed. The oppression of the Empire began before the game even started. You can't support the right to rebel if you agree that the oppression is necessary. These two statements were designed by me to be mutually exclusive, I examined them semantically, ran them through my rhetoric filters, and determined that they could not even in theory exist together. It's just that simple, you choose one or the other but not both. It's Red or Blue or White, you can't choose Purple, there is no " Third Way " and to pretend there is just a wishful delusion. So.. that's that, put to bed and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer81 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) @GabryalOk so on "oppression"... what you're saying is anyone who receives a title as "liberator" or "freedom-fighter" gets a free pass into "oppressing" whomever they want but when the lawful Gov tries to stop the violence, then we're somehow the "oppressors"? I don't buy that.So... Ulfric can murder people in Markarth for not coming to fight for his cause while Stormcloaks were sieging their city. Then when he captures said city, young, elderly, shopkeepers, children old enough to wield asword... whoever didn't fight for his cause he had them executed and now you're saying he gets a free pass? Give me a break dude.When does it end? Ulfric has killed as many neutral parties in his revolution as he has killed Imperials. Ulfric "oppressed" the Reachmen, and Whiterun (a neutral city), he "oppresses" elven races, in particular the Dark Elves, the Stormcloaks in general are "oppressive" towards non Nords even Imperials, the Stormcloaks are in nature "oppressive" and, if you can't understand that then you're the one living in a fantasy. I'm here in the real world, a zebra does not change it's stripes.And, whenever anyone tries to approach you guys about it, you're like, "Oh well that's just how it works, they'll be some blood and alot of violence but it has to be done" B$Just because you are not happy that you're not getting your way all the time DOES NOT give you or me the right to start killing and stealing from people who are BYSTANDERS and/or otherwise neutral parties.STALIN, HITLER, MAO all of these guys were revolutionaries and they took the same route as Ulfric by using "oppression" as some kind of "tool" as a means for their personal ambition and for revolutionary change. In ALL of these cases Tens of Thousands of people if not millions died so they could have their way.When you have Ulfric murdering civilians and innocent people at Markarth because they weren't with him and then persecuting elves because he has a chip on his shoulder, you HAVE NO RIGHT to turn around and point the finger at us and say we're the bad guys. Seriously, if you guys want to know where the enemy is at, then look in a mirror.I can't tell you how many "people" I have had to deal with that have this disorder. They seem to think, "Ok well, Hammer is really stern and he gets paid alot of money, so he's part of the problem, he's somehow the reason why I can't get ahead in life" LMAO Weak-minded creatons. Or how 'bout, "Well, I'm not aloud to do such and such for whatever reason and it's only me, so I'm going to make sure that Hammer has no liberty either." I guess that mentality is, if I'm being punished for something, then I should make sure that everyone is punished with me. A very childish, self-centered attitude and I won't have any part of it.In order to maintain law and order, some people are going to be "oppressed". Soldiers in the military during their training are "oppressed". There will "oppression" in Skyrim under Ulfric either way. This in the US, is a FEDERAL REPUBLIC, we are NOT a Democracy. And because it's not possible for everyone to be represented, then some people are by nature, going to be "oppressed". Some people probably think it's ok to just walk into their neighbors house and take things, then when pulled over, the policemen was "oppressing" them. Cannot get around "oppression" your whole argument is up in smoke.What about the tax payers? I'm OPPRESSED because they keep taking my taxes and sending said money to the damn illegals, but I'm kool about it. I haven't killed anyone over it, it's my problem my neighbor has nothing to do with it. And furthermore, I'll never ever receive any type of "assistance" from the Gov because I'm of the White class... and everything is my fault.Religion can be oppressive, religious authorities can be *willfully* oppressive towards others who don't share their cause.The whole oppression argument is old and bogus. Stormcloaks are oppressive. In order to maintain society, there will *always* be a certain level of Liberty and a certain level of Oppression. Unless they go around, removing everyone's frontal lobe from their brains, then you would have neither because people wouldn't be people anymore. The concept of the Revolutionary party being a victim of "Oppression" is a tool which provides an *excuse* for said Revolutionary parties to justify carrying out acts of violence against other parties and/or individuals for their own agenda, *regardless* as to whether or not these parties and/or individuals are anyway directly or indirectly related to whatever the "supposed" reason for revolutionary change may be. If the Revolutionary party is indeed a victim of oppression themselves, then no positive change can or will ever be accomplished if said Revolutionary party acts as the "oppressor" themselves, without ever "rising above" their sh*tty situation and showing the world how things should be done, history will inevitably repeat itself and the only real change will be the Revolutionary party will now become the former "oppressors"."The Last Imperial"http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/32122-1-1361464638.jpghttp://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1760&bih=839&tbm=isch&tbnid=IXbKp2OCDGmFOM:&imgrefurl=http://ezhovs.deviantart.com/art/The-battle-near-Whiterun-281627223&docid=D_R5iy-1GShB4M&imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/281627223/the_battle_near_whiterun_by_ezhovs-d4no8yf.jpg&w=1280&h=1024&ei=WxgpUc7DIoj69gSiioCwAg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,i:85&iact=rc&dur=214&sig=110628997490072880098&page=1&tbnh=184&tbnw=240&start=0&ndsp=24&tx=64&ty=77 Edited February 24, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Guys, the stormcloaks are the worse kind of fashists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabryal Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Guys, the stormcloaks are the worse kind of fashists.I'm not sure how to respond to this statement, I'm not even sure it's a full thought, I fear it... using the same sort of logic though I'll say The Imperials are the worst sort of child rapists P.S. It's Fascists Edited February 25, 2013 by Gabryal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts