Foreign Troops in Australia?

[marharth]

Hate to break it to you, but the USA has troops everywhere. There is literally nothing anyone can do to change that. Our military is simply ridiculous and this is not the first time we have sent troops to foreign countries. We have troops stationed in multiple other places as well. We also have a bunch of aircraft carriers and subs for no reason.

 

 

That, and military decisions are not made by the people.

 

For no reason?? Wait for the next major war, then you will see just why it is we have them. They aren't something you can just mothball till needed, and then pull them out of storage.....

 

Military decisions SHOULDN'T be made by the people. The government points, and then SHOULD step out of the way. Tell the military the missions, and mission parameters, and then turn them loose. Having politicians run the war doesn't turn out well. (Vietnam anyone? To a lesser extent, Korea.....)

 

Now, I will grant you, that of late, the government has been sending the military to places that I don't believe they should be in. Iraq was based on lies, manipulations, and falsified intelligence. Anyone that didn't support going into Iraq was either ignored, or marginalized. (or outright fired....) Why do you think Colin Powell resigned? He didn't want anything to do with it. Afghanistan was to get ONE guy. So, we invaded, overthru a legitimate, if distasteful, government, and then engaged in yet another round of "nation building", which we outright SUCK at. We had no business there either. One seal team would have been far more effective, and a LOT less expensive. Opium production in Afghanistan before we invaded? Damn near zero, the taliban didn't go for that kind of thing. Today? Afghanistan provides 80% of the worlds supply of opium. Wonderful. Not to mention that we support one of the most corrupt governments on the planet. (that we installed.....)

Our military is twice the size of every other country combined. There is no reason to have that massive of a military, and we don't need so many troops stationed in multiple places.

 

I don't think it is even necessary to hunt terrorists, but a seal team would be a lot more effective.

 

And yes, the military should not be controlled by the people. I was making the point that is does not matter if the people want troops or not because it is not up to them.

[HeyYou]

Hate to break it to you, but the USA has troops everywhere. There is literally nothing anyone can do to change that. Our military is simply ridiculous and this is not the first time we have sent troops to foreign countries. We have troops stationed in multiple other places as well. We also have a bunch of aircraft carriers and subs for no reason.

 

 

That, and military decisions are not made by the people.

 

For no reason?? Wait for the next major war, then you will see just why it is we have them. They aren't something you can just mothball till needed, and then pull them out of storage.....

 

Military decisions SHOULDN'T be made by the people. The government points, and then SHOULD step out of the way. Tell the military the missions, and mission parameters, and then turn them loose. Having politicians run the war doesn't turn out well. (Vietnam anyone? To a lesser extent, Korea.....)

 

Now, I will grant you, that of late, the government has been sending the military to places that I don't believe they should be in. Iraq was based on lies, manipulations, and falsified intelligence. Anyone that didn't support going into Iraq was either ignored, or marginalized. (or outright fired....) Why do you think Colin Powell resigned? He didn't want anything to do with it. Afghanistan was to get ONE guy. So, we invaded, overthru a legitimate, if distasteful, government, and then engaged in yet another round of "nation building", which we outright SUCK at. We had no business there either. One seal team would have been far more effective, and a LOT less expensive. Opium production in Afghanistan before we invaded? Damn near zero, the taliban didn't go for that kind of thing. Today? Afghanistan provides 80% of the worlds supply of opium. Wonderful. Not to mention that we support one of the most corrupt governments on the planet. (that we installed.....)

Our military is twice the size of every other country combined. There is no reason to have that massive of a military, and we don't need so many troops stationed in multiple places.

 

I don't think it is even necessary to hunt terrorists, but a seal team would be a lot more effective.

 

And yes, the military should not be controlled by the people. I was making the point that is does not matter if the people want troops or not because it is not up to them.

 

Yeah, our military is HUGE. Over 900 bases on foreign soil. Of course, I am not entirely sure just what their definition of "base" is there...... I suspect that also included in that count, are forward operating "bases", that consist of some fence, maybe a building, and a couple troops. Still, yeah, that does seem a bit excessive. Even after a couple rounds of base closings. I think more domestic bases were closed, than foreign though. In all reality, I wouldn't mind closing ALL of our foreign bases, and invest a couple more carrier groups. Hell of a lot cheaper.

 

But, as for the topic at hand..... yes, the americans have their fingers in the pie just about everywhere. I suppose from a strategic point of view, having a base in Australia wouldn't be such a bad thing.....

[Maharg67]

Maharth, the people have to ultimately control the military unless one wants ultimately to be ruled by the military. Too many nations have gone down that path already.

 

HeyYou, Australia is not just a handy strategic position for any other nation to use, be it China, the USA, Britain or anybody else. Australia is an independent nation-state. Just because we are allied to America does not mean American soldiers should be able to be placed here with out the general permission of the Australian people. Same goes for any other non Australian forces. Indeed, same goes for the placement of Australian military bases on Australian soil. The Australian Defense Services have been forced more than once to change plans due to civilian pressure.

 

HeyYou, would you like the USA to be treated like a handy strategic position by a larger, more powerful nation? Would any nation like to be so treated? Evidence indicates that the answer is usually a resounding 'no'.

[Werne]

America is too aggressive in their "helping". They think they can control anything and anyone, and I hate that. Here in croatia we don't have american bases (thank god), but when they come here they act like they own the place (making problems, destroying stuff). One of the american soldiers once took down our nation's flag in our base and put up an american one with this explanation: "This is all going to be America one day, now f*** off." Another one of their soldiers started shooting in the base (he was so drunk he could barely walk). So much for helping, eh.

[Aurielius]

America is too aggressive in their "helping". They think they can control anything and anyone, and I hate that. Here in croatia we don't have american bases (thank god), but when they come here they act like they own the place (making problems, destroying stuff). One of the american soldiers once took down our nation's flag in our base and put up an american one with this explanation: "This is all going to be America one day, now f*** off." Another one of their soldiers started shooting in the base (he was so drunk he could barely walk). So much for helping, eh.

Intriguing, but when we risked American pilots during the 1994 UNPROFOR suppression strikes or Operation Deliberate Force operations that was fine I guess.

Your memory and gratitude is a tad short lived. :wallbash:

[Werne]

Intriguing, but when we risked American pilots during the 1994 UNPROFOR suppression strikes or Operation Deliberate Force operations that was fine I guess.

Your memory and gratitude is a tad short lived. :wallbash:

 

UNPROFOR is the reason my father is missing a leg, they miscalculated their artillery fire, and they didn't even apologise, they said "oops". And I've seen too many videos of UNPROFOR delivering guns to the Chetniks, one of them even featured in the International court of justice in Haag. By the way, operation Deliberate Force was in Bosnia, not Croatia. Americans didn't help us during operations Oluja and Bljesak when we needed help, they didn't send help in 1992 and 1993 when civilians were killed by the Chetniks in the "ethnic cleaning", they didn't send help while Vukovar was being destroyed from artillery fire by the JNA.

 

Gratitude? I owe my gratitude only to a handful of people, some of them died helping Americans in Afghanistan, and one of them is an American soldier. And the ones "helping" us 1991.-1995.? I'd rather shoot myself than be grateful.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Werne

[HeyYou]

Intriguing, but when we risked American pilots during the 1994 UNPROFOR suppression strikes or Operation Deliberate Force operations that was fine I guess.

Your memory and gratitude is a tad short lived. :wallbash:

 

UNPROFOR is the reason my father is missing a leg, they miscalculated their artillery fire, and they didn't even apologise, they said "oops". And I've seen too many videos of UNPROFOR delivering guns to the Chetniks, one of them even featured in the International court of justice in Haag. By the way, operation Deliberate Force was in Bosnia, not Croatia. Americans didn't help us during operations Oluja and Bljesak when we needed help, they didn't send help in 1992 and 1993 when civilians were killed by the Chetniks in the "ethnic cleaning", they didn't send help while Vukovar was being destroyed from artillery fire by the JNA.

 

Gratitude? I owe my gratitude only to a handful of people, some of them died helping Americans in Afghanistan, and one of them is an American soldier. And the ones "helping" us 1991.-1995.? I'd rather shoot myself than be grateful.

 

And this is why I would just as soon close ALL of our overseas bases, and keep our military noses out of other nations issues. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[Aurielius]

Intriguing, but when we risked American pilots during the 1994 UNPROFOR suppression strikes or Operation Deliberate Force operations that was fine I guess.

Your memory and gratitude is a tad short lived. :wallbash:

 

UNPROFOR is the reason my father is missing a leg, they miscalculated their artillery fire, and they didn't even apologise, they said "oops". And I've seen too many videos of UNPROFOR delivering guns to the Chetniks, one of them even featured in the International court of justice in Haag. By the way, operation Deliberate Force was in Bosnia, not Croatia. Americans didn't help us during operations Oluja and Bljesak when we needed help, they didn't send help in 1992 and 1993 when civilians were killed by the Chetniks in the "ethnic cleaning", they didn't send help while Vukovar was being destroyed from artillery fire by the JNA.

 

Gratitude? I owe my gratitude only to a handful of people, some of them died helping Americans in Afghanistan, and one of them is an American soldier. And the ones "helping" us 1991.-1995.? I'd rather shoot myself than be grateful.

 

And this is why I would just as soon close ALL of our overseas bases, and keep our military noses out of other nations issues. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't.

When the next bout of 'ethnic cleansing' occurs somewhere they will screaming for us to intervene and when we are done they will remember friendly fire as as the contribution we made. Fine then let them appeal to the UN and see if that suits them better, they can watch the assembly debate while dying in droves while waiting for actual help. It seems that who actually started the war in the former Yugoslavia is not as relevant as collateral damage incurred. Next time I say let them fight it out and Red Cross can deal with the survivors if any and see if they like that better.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Aurielius

[Maharg67]

Please, the topic is the deployment of foreign troops on national soil in peace time. This is fast becoming a flaming war. The topic is one of concern about local people being given a chance to have their say about such matters.

 

In times of war or other emergencies, the rules change, even for Australia. I welcomed the idea of American soldiers being in Australia during World War Two because Australia needed them and wanted them though there were some tensions that arose from the situation.

 

Again, this topic is meant to be about the people of a nation, any nation though I chose my own country of Australia as the prime example, deciding whether 'foreign' troops should be placed on their land and in what manner they should be placed on their land.

[ffa1mf]

Since WWII, Allied nations have had troops deployed to other Allied nations. As Allies, it sort of helps to train together, work together and be prepared and even, yes, to show a united and strong military force to the world.

I know I enjoyed my Pacific tour, particularly Australia (Bondi Beach *sigh*) and as far as I recall no locals seemed upset with foreign troops in the area.

 

In my country - I see British, German, American and even Australian troops deployed here at military bases. I suppose I should be concerned Australia has some secret plan for gaining permanent status in my country as well?

I also don't expect my government to come and ask for a vote or local approval everytime some foreign troops are deployed here, not only a waste of my time and tax dollars, but that vote was done years ago, the cooperative agreements made and mutual benefits made apparent.

 

To be perfectly honest here, I think your Greens Party is blowing hot air in order to gain attention and generate anti-American sentiment rather than address some concern about Australian sovereignty. I also find it rather, I'll use the word "impolite" here, to suggest that it is OK to have foreign troops deployed when it is necessary and beneficial (ie: to help defend the country), but once that is accomplished and the immediate threat has passed all those foreign troops should just GTFO - at least until they are needed again.

 

While I appreciate that there will be a slightly larger presence in the area due to a change in need, if this Greens Party had any interrest in Australian sovereignty, they would understand it doesn't just exist because they say so and would be supporting a greater level of cooperation with ALL their Allies, not just those they want to pick and choose.